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A Universe from Nothing?

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
What is the point of our discussion if you are not prepared to use your own God given mind to find out, relying instead on what others have said? Monkey knowledge about a subject is no substitute for independently understanding it.

What god? My mind is the product of hard work and education.

Do you really think I'm as stupid as you wish? I have researched and learned aspects of cosmology, which is probably why i leave you behind.

You limit your knowledge to what is comfortable to your own faith and then throw ad hom, hyperbole and mockery at anything beyond your limits
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Apparently you can not even understand a simple explanation about the concept of time, please do some more work on you language skills.

Ha, ha, how petty. If admin and rules were no so strict id be telling you now how ignorant you are in words you dont like.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Apparently you can not even understand a simple explanation about the concept of time, please do some more work on you language skills.

Time is an aspect of the second law of thermodynamics. i don't know about your make believe world but in reality the second law of thermodynamics arose about 13.8 billion year's before humans thought wrist watches were a neat idea
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Time is an aspect of the second law of thermodynamics. i don't know about your make believe world but in reality the second law of thermodynamics arose about 13.8 billion year's before humans thought wrist watches were a neat idea
Yes, time is a concept used in human calculations of physical movement, but it is not literally the same thing is it calculates.

The meteorite that flashes across the night sky is a physical phenomenon, a human who happens to see it estimates that it was visible for about 10 seconds, that is a mental calculation of time. The two acts are entirely separate, one is physical, the other mental, but the mind merges the two as an idea of the meteorite traveling in time and only now when I point it you will you see what I am saying if your mind is sufficiently developed.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
What god? My mind is the product of hard work and education.

Do you really think I'm as stupid as you wish? I have researched and learned aspects of cosmology, which is probably why i leave you behind.

You limit your knowledge to what is comfortable to your own faith and then throw ad hom, hyperbole and mockery at anything beyond your limits
So before the hard work and education, did you have a mind to begin with, and if so where it come from?

I think it would be wise of me to not answer that question, though I may point out that if I did have a wish, it would be for you to be intelligent.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes, time is a concept used in human calculations of physical movement, but it is not literally the same thing is it calculates.

The meteorite that flashes across the night sky is a physical phenomenon, a human who happens to see it estimates that it was visible for about 10 seconds, that is a mental calculation of time. The two acts are entirely separate, one is physical, the other mental, but the mind merges the two as an idea of the meteorite traveling in time and only now when I point it you will you see what I am saying if your mind is sufficiently developed.



And there you go again with the irrelevant metaphor. Note, without human observation the meteor would still flash across the sky and unless it strikes an object, the chances are that it was moving through space long before humanz were around to observe it
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
So before the hard work and education, did you have a mind to begin with, and if so where it come from?

I think it would be wise of me to not answer that question, though I may point out that if I did have a wish, it would be for you to be intelligent.

You don't have the intelligence to answer that question so keeping quite is probably the most sensible thing you've done

Oh far more of a mind than you display with your childish and limited concepts based on god magic and mythology
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
And there you go again with the irrelevant metaphor. Note, without human observation the meteor would still flash across the sky and unless it strikes an object, the chances are that it was moving through space long before humanz were around to observe it
Haha...sorry Christine, but if you do not even know what a metaphor is, why are we even having this discussion. How old are you if I may ask?

Your incoherent response shows you do not understand what is being said to you in simple English. What metaphor are you referring to? Wow, you understand that even if the meteor was not seen, it would still have burnt up...how astute is that. What relevance has that got to add of subtract from what I explained, and what relevance does the fact that the meteor probably existed for yonks before humans were around to have seen it burn up have also?
confused0024.gif
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
You don't have the intelligence to answer that question so keeping quite is probably the most sensible thing you've done

Oh far more of a mind than you display with your childish and limited concepts based on god magic and mythology
Your question was....Do you really think I'm as stupid as you wish? I ultimately did answer it, perhaps it was too subtle, I said my wish would be that you were not stupid.

Please explain where you see my explanation of the reality represented by the concept of time is based on God, magic, and mythology? And as a bonus to your education, you are informed that your attempt to conflate my perfectly secular based explanations wrt time with God, magic, and mythology, is what is known as a strawman argument. And a pathetic one at that.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Time also moves, in precisely one direction. And not just mental but a fundamental property of this universe which you demean by confining it to human intellect.
so....drop some physical evidence for us

time in a bottle?

can be generated?......got a time machine?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
perhaps entropy too has an end and we go smashing back into chaos.

scientists are not God on this matter.

knowing 5% of the universe isn't authority on the matter.

Considering before Galileo and the telescopes, people only have their own eyes to observe the night sky, so the universe before his time consist of the Sun, Moon, and 5 planets, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, and only those stars that can be seen.

Before the 20th century (before the large optical telescopes and before radio telescopes), they thought only the Milky Way was the entirety of the universe. The Andromeda Galaxy, the nearest spiral galaxy, was observable, but because of the inferior telescopes before the 20th century, they thought it was merely a nebula.

Until Edwin Hubble (in 1919, at the Hooker Telescope, California) used the new and the largest telescope (at that time) for the very time, he discovered that Andromeda wasn't a nebula, but a galaxy even larger and more massive than the Milky Way, with billions more stars. Only then, did they discovered the universe was larger than they thought.

In less than 10 years, first the Russian Alexander Friedmann, in 1922, and later the Belgian Georges Lemaitre, in 1927, have independently posited the universe was originally smaller - the singularity - and the universe have been expanding ever since. This was later named the Big Bang Theory, in 1948.

Hubble discovered the first piece of evidence for the Big Bang (in 1929, 10 years after using the Hooker Telescope), that the universe was and it is still expanding. When you look at the telescope of two galaxies, if the wavelengths are red-shifted in EM spectrum, it mean they are moving away from each other.

Ever since then, with Hubble, Friedmann, Lemaitre and other astrophysicists, we discovered more and more about the universe, especially when using the radio telescopes and later still with space telescopes, such as the Hubble Space Telescope (HST), Chandra X-ray Observatory (CXO), Spitzer Space Telescope (SST), Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) and Planck space probe.

We certainly know more about the universe than 100 years ago, 500 years ago, and 2000 years ago.

The Bible, the Qur'an and any other scriptural literature, are nothing more than idiot books, containing no real scientific information about solar system, galaxy or the universe; and they explain nothing. They are filled with myths, and worse ignorant superstitions.

You whining because only 5% of the universe is known, but religions have zero real knowledge of the universe. All religions have, are primitive superstitions, and even these lores are false or wrong.

And you have zero evidence about the "consciousness" is the source of the universe; you are just projecting your belief and perpetrating more silly and faulty superstitions.
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
Time also moves, in precisely one direction. And not just mental but a fundamental property of this universe which you demean by confining it to human intellect.

That's because ben d is one of those who perpetrating the myth and absurd superstition of the New Age's "Cosmic Consciousness" and the so-called "Ultimate Reality" nonsense.

He is no better than the Creationists and ID advocates, issuing ultimatum that we must accept his pseudoscience lore being "true". Disagree with him, would earn you - mockery.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
it's the sum of a line of logic

and your denial won't undo it
Denial of what exactly?

You have not presented any evidence for me to accept what you believe.

I have - as a number of have done so too - have requested or asked you the same questions, over and over again, eg "What is spirit?" or "What do you mean by substance?", and what we get from you is not any clarification or explanation for answers...

...no, what we get from you, is you skirting the questions with some incoherent ramblings about something along the line - spirit "good" and substance "bad" - or you simply ignoring us as if we didn't ask you, then repeat the same stupid motto about "spirit" and "substance" again, still not answering our questions.

Repeating the same motto about spirit and substance don't add anything to discussion or debate. No, it only make you looks evasive and dishonest.

You keep telling us not to call you a liar, then I am telling quite bluntly "stop" being so bloody evasive.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Denial of what exactly?

You have not presented any evidence for me to accept what you believe.

I have - as a number of have done so too - have requested or asked you the same questions, over and over again, eg "What is spirit?" or "What do you mean by substance?", and what we get from you is not any clarification or explanation for answers...

...no, what we get from you, is you skirting the questions with some incoherent ramblings about something along the line - spirit "good" and substance "bad" - or you simply ignoring us as if we didn't ask you, then repeat the same stupid motto about "spirit" and "substance" again, still not answering our questions.

Repeating the same motto about spirit and substance don't add anything to discussion or debate. No, it only make you looks evasive and dishonest.

You keep telling us not to call you a liar, then I am telling quite bluntly "stop" being so bloody evasive.
I am not attempting to change your mind
no acceptance required on your part
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
That's because ben d is one of those who perpetrating the myth and absurd superstition of the New Age's "Cosmic Consciousness" and the so-called "Ultimate Reality" nonsense.

He is no better than the Creationists and ID advocates, issuing ultimatum that we must accept his pseudoscience lore being "true". Disagree with him, would earn you - mockery.


You got that right. His arguments are totally fact free, supply evidence and he goes into full hyperbole mode. Ain't it fun?
 
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