A Universe from Nothing?

[Ben Dhyan]

That is a time measurement. When we measure gravity we are measuring the amount of space-time influencing an object. Like measuring a wind by how much force it exudes on an object.

This is what I mean by a pure time measurement, how do you measure an hour?

 

[idav]

This is what I mean by a pure time measurement, how do you measure an hour?

An hour is different relative to an observers speed or mass. When talking about measuring time it is a measurement of how much time is influencing an object. So it's a measurement of an hour relative to another objects hour.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't believe in the soul, unless the soul is merely a metaphor for one's life, consciousness, thoughts, emotion, desire, etc. but I don't think that what most people have in their minds when they think of souls.

But soul as in the spirit, as taught by religion, I know of many types, from different ancient literature that I have read. I simply just don't follow any.

There I the most obvious one, that the soul is a spirit that Christians believe, will be judged after death, and depending on judgment.

With Judaism, but I don't know if this is true for all Jews, but the soul is simply a life-giving force, eg breath of life, that make people alive. Once a person died, the soul returned to God. The soul has no individuality, has no memory, no emotion, no personality, and therefore cannot be judged, and don't go Heaven or Hell. So if I died, I don't go to heaven or hell, because the soul is not "me".

According to the Egyptians (sources: Pyramid Text, Coffin Text, but more from the New Kingdom Book of the Dead), the soul is "ba", normally depicted in paintings as either a heart or a little copy of a person, that Anubis can weigh on a scale, against the Feather of Ma'at. If a person ba (soul) is lighter than the Feather or balanced the scale, he will go to the Field of Reeds, but if it is heavier than the Feather, than the ba will be eaten by Ammut, the Devourer of the Dead, a creature or goddess that is part crocodile, part lion and part hippopotamus.

There is older religion in Egypt (Old Kingdom, from 3rd to 5th dynasties), where only the ruler or pharaoh can reach the afterlife, which is on the solar boat of the sun god Re. If the king is worthy, Horus and Seth will assist the king to climb the pyramid, like a stairway or ladder, climb onboard Re's barque, and sailed the sky as one of Re's crew members.

The Greeks, especially those presented by Homer and Hesiod, the soul are judged by 3 judges, or by Hades or His consort Persephone, to determine who goes to Elysian Field, who goes to Erebus, or worse to Tartarus.

A different Greek religion, known as the Orphic Mystery, believe that each person has a soul, with dual-side - good and evil. The soul will undergo through 3 lives, so reincarnated twice. Upon the 3rd death, Persephone will judge his soul, whether it go to Elysium or to Tartarus.

In China, the Taoism teach the Way, in rather more complex. There is afterlife and there is a Taoist version of hell, but there is also possibility of achieving immortality. There is also a possibility of ceasing to exist altogether.

Hinduism and Buddhism (and other dharma religions) believed in reincarnation, except in Buddhism, it teach that a person can end the endless cycle of rebirths.

So asking me about what concept of soul that I believe in, is a useless question, since I don't accept its existence, and considered all religions about souls or spirits to be mythological.

So the question is why would you even bother to ask me this question?

Because to believe something does not exist, logically you must have some idea of what the concept represents in order to make the judgment that such a thing does not exist.

So I take it that you think all the ideas of what a soul is in your post are in error, none of them have any merit to you.

And that's fine, young souls don't know yet they are souls, they think they are their physical body.

 

[gnostic]

Hinduism teaches the end to samsara, too.

Thank you, SF.

I am not as well-versed with the practices and teachings of religions of South Asia and Far East Asia.

My main focus has alway being with Greek and Roman religions, but I learned others just through reading their literature.

For instance, with the Sumerian and Babylonian religions, that all who died, go to the Netherworld, even a dead god, like Dumuzid (Akkadian-Babylonian Tammuz).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thank you, SF.

I am not as well-versed with the practices and teachings of religions of South Asia and Far East Asia.

My main focus has alway being with Greek and Roman religions, but I learned others just through reading their literature.

For instance, with the Sumerian and Babylonian religions, that all who died, go to the Netherworld, even a dead god, like Dumuzid (Akkadian-Babylonian Tammuz).

You're welcome. Hinduism teaches moksha (liberation) through awareness of the soul's ultimate identity as Brahman (God or Ultimate Reality). Buddhism teaches the same but without the idea of a static soul or much concern with deities.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

An hour is different relative to an observers speed or mass. When talking about measuring time it is a measurement of how much time is influencing an object. So it's a measurement of an hour relative to another objects hour.

I didn't ask about the relativity of time, I asked you how you measure an hour of time. Let's say an airline told you your flight was going to take one hour, how would you measure it?

 

[idav]

I didn't ask about the relativity of time, I asked you how you measure an hour of time. Let's say an airline told you your flight was going to take one hour, how would you measure it?

With a gps system that takes into account special relativity.

 

[gnostic]

Because to believe something does not exist, logically you must have some idea of what the concept represents in order to make the judgment that such a thing does not exist.

So I take it that you think all the ideas of what a soul is in your post are in error, none of them have any merit to you.

And that's fine, young souls don't know yet they are souls, they think they are their physical body.

No, ben.

They are not real or true, because they all relied on the beliefs in superstitions.

Don't get me wrong, Ben. I actually loved myths, legends and folklore, but I need more to believe something is real.

Do you always keep ignoring me, when I tell you I required E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E-S???!!!

Only evidences will verify what is fact and what isn't. And souls fall under the category of "isn't".

 

[Ben Dhyan]

With a gps system that takes into account special relativity.

You appear to be dodging the question. Let's say a friend wanted to have a one hour nap and asked you to wake him/her up after one hour, how would you measure the time so as to know when the hour was up?

 

[idav]

You appear to be dodging the question. Let's say a friend wanted to have a one hour nap and asked you to wake him/her up after one hour, how would you measure the time so as to know when the hour was up?

Scientists even measured the curvature of spacetime so I don't know what more you need to know. There is a physicality to time that goes beyond simple clocks, @Thief only refers to time like measuring with a ruler, like your describing. Time is more real than that.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, ben.

They are not real or true, because they all relied on the beliefs in superstitions.

Don't get me wrong, Ben. I actually loved myths, legends and folklore, but I need more to believe something is real.

Do you always keep ignoring me, when I tell you I required E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E-S???!!!

Only evidences will verify what is fact and what isn't. And souls fall under the category of "isn't".

I don't ignore you, I understand you are a materialist in the sense that only objective evidence will suffice for you to accept its reality. That is what I call a young soul, for a soul is immaterial and thus it is not possible for it to be detected by gross matter.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Scientists even measured the curvature of spacetime so I don't know what more you need to know. There is a physicality to time that goes beyond simple clocks, @Thief only refers to time like measuring with a ruler, like your describing. Time is more real than that.

You have not explained anything, how does that explain how you knew the hour was up to wake your friend?

 

[idav]

You have not explained anything, how does that explain how you knew the hour was up to wake your friend?

You may as well use a sun dial.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You may as well use a sun dial.

And how does a sun dial measure time?

 

[George-ananda]

No, ben.

They are not real or true, because they all relied on the beliefs in superstitions.

Don't get me wrong, Ben. I actually loved myths, legends and folklore, but I need more to believe something is real.

Do you always keep ignoring me, when I tell you I required E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E-S???!!!

Only evidences will verify what is fact and what isn't. And souls fall under the category of "isn't".

The gross physical can not detect the subtle. It may be like trying to catch an atom with a butterfly net.

For me the cumulative weight for the existence of paranormal phenomena suggests that the subtle is real beyond reasonable doubt. You will probably say there is no physical proof of such subtle things to physical science. At some we each must use our best reasoning to form our opinion and we will probably differ.

 

[gnostic]

I don't ignore you, I understand you are a materialist in the sense that only objective evidence will suffice for you to accept its reality.

If you do understand me so well, then why do you bother to ask me question that in stuff that I don't even believe in? Or question that I might not have the answer to?

That is what I call a young soul, for a soul is immaterial and thus it is not possible for it to be detected by gross matter.

No, Ben. You are just perpetuating a myth and superstition that really has no basis in reality.

You declared your personal belief as if they were facts...when facts required evidences, which you clearly don't have.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If you do understand me so well, then why do you bother to ask me question that in stuff that I don't even believe in? Or question that I might not have the answer to?

No, Ben. You are just perpetuating a myth and superstition that really has no basis in reality.

You declared your personal belief as if they were facts...when facts required evidences, which you clearly don't have.

Honestly I don't normally engage young souls since they are yet unaware of what and who they really are, but if they like to challenge me as you do, I am happy to oblige. And in this case, i use logic and reasoning to point out your weak points wrt your simplistic materialist belief system. Unfortunately it turns out it is mostly a waste of time as you lack the understanding to grok what is being conveyed to you.

 

[Thief]

Scientists even measured the curvature of spacetime so I don't know what more you need to know. There is a physicality to time that goes beyond simple clocks, @Thief only refers to time like measuring with a ruler, like your describing. Time is more real than that.

nay
not a force
not a substance

 

[Thief]

Somebody please....put some time in a bottle and send it to the CERN lab

they will want to know of it

and hopefully the package won't leak
wouldn't want an empty bottle delivered

 

[Thief]

Thats viewing time as simply a measurement on a clock, it is much more than that. Time is normally viewed as a fourth dimension.

dimensions ARE measures