A Universe from Nothing?

[Mister Silver]

My opinion on the matter of this thread is that I find it rather convenient for theists to harp on a scientific approach toward attempting to understanding the beginning of the universe while the same theists are perfectly content with god having no beginning.

 

[ChristineM]

Close, but to clarify, I did not say transcendence is a religious practice, I said religious practice leads to transcendence.

Yes, you did post a link that includes a claim that transcendence can be realized by events other than religious practice, but as I've been showing you, it is irrelevant and as it does not claim that still mind meditation is not a religious practice as you maintain. The only way it would be relevant is if it claimed that transcendence can not be realized by religious practice, which it does not.

Read the quoted posts.

Post #4255 you wrote
There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice.

No matter how you squirm, fact is fact.

Of course its relevant because it refutes your claim

 

[Ben Dhyan]

They actually verify my claim that you did say transcendence was a religious practice despite your repeated denials you never said that.

If you recall i stated and provided evidence that it was not only a religious practice but used by several other categories.

Which you denied.

There you have it, you are now totally changing your position, you originally told me that it the still mind meditation was NOT a religious practice, now you are admitting it is a religious practice.

In response to my post #4255 where I said.."There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice."

You replied in your post #4259 by saying...."No, it is a practice, religion is only involved if you personally wish it to use it as a vehicle to achieve a result."

And as I said all along, the link is irrelevant, the point of contention was that you categorically claimed that still mind meditation was NOT a religious practice.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And i suspect that ben d has no clue what he says most of the time

And he also seems to talk total irrelevant bull when he is trying to belittle a woman who has shown him up for the failure he is.

Is such a way to try and save face a result of religious transcendence?

I do not try to belittle you Christine, you do it to yourself. As long as you are not honest with me, you are not honest with yourself.

To quote Shakespeare.."To thy own self be true, and it follows, as night must follow day, thou canst not be false to any man".

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Read the quoted posts.

Post #4255 you wrote
There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice.

No matter how you squirm, fact is fact.

Of course its relevant because it refutes your claim

That is correct, I say stilling the mind is a religious practice in my post #4255, and you say it isn't in your post #4259.

You are in error to claim that.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Told you I'm not using my time for your gratification. But will say, the first time your response post contained nothing but your your silly purple with embarrassed contrition emoji , surely you remember that?

Second was only yesterday, do you not remember feigning incredulity when i pointed it out to you. Not too far for you to look.

Haha...is my purple emoji the lie you are referring to?

Look, just post the complete details of whatever it is you are talking about and quit avoiding the issue, as it is I have no idea what you are talking about except that you claim I lied.

 

[godnotgod]

WE ARE NOT TALKING about which cosmology model of the universe is real or not.

WE ARE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING ABOUT SCIENCE.

No. What we talking about is, hypothetically-speaking, just how many stars a man, like Abraham, could possibly count the number in the sky?

If he could see and meticulously count the maximum number of stars that were VISIBLE to him, it would be just under 9100 stars.

Abraham would not see any star that were too far away from his vantage point in Canaan.

And what he would see, would not be limitless or countless. The stars that would be visible to him, would be 9096 stars.

You can't ask a man, any man, without even a basic telescope, like the one used by Galileo or Kepler, to count stars that not visible to him.

Abraham would only be able to count the stars that are VISIBLE TO HIM.

That what the verses were asking Abraham.

A person like Abraham wouldn't even bother to count the stars, because I doubt that he would have the patience to do so.

And if Abraham did exist, he would "think" that there would be too many stars to count, therefore he would believe it to be countless, but the fact of the matter, is that what a person can see, unaided, is not as many stars that he was led to believe.

It is not logical for you to claim that Abraham have to count stars NOT VISIBLE TO HIM.

The passages are only logical that god was asking if he could count stars that were visible to him and not the ones not visible to him.

It was only in 1919, that astronomers around the world, would know from Edwin Hubble, that the Milky Way that there are many more galaxies out there.

At that time, the Hooker Observatory had the largest optical telescope in the world, and Hubble saw that the Andromeda was not a nebula as part of the Milky Way, but an even larger spiral galaxy, 2 million light years away, containing billions more stars than the Milky Way.

And my previous reply is correct, what stars were visible to a Bronze Age person is not limitless, countless or infinite.

Not sure what your point is. I just want to know which criteria you are employing to ascertain that the universe is real. You replied with 'evidences', whatever that means. 'Evidence', in the form of facts and data, do not prove that the universe is real.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, I suspect Christine, as an atheist, can not admit there is anything more to reality than the maya of the mind's duality perspective. For to step out and actually practice transcending duality would risk showing herself to be in great error.

You know, that from my POV, the atheist is God pretending He doesn't exist, LOL. It's just part of the wonderful Cosmic Game of Hide and Seek. But they do it with such a perfect Poker Face, and put up such a fight that you almost believe them! Careful, ha ha....

PS: And, oh yes, the Christian is none other than God himself, pretending He is someone else, ha ha...

"Oh, NO, Lord, why, I would NEVER want to be YOU!...would I?"

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You know, that from my POV, the atheist is God pretending He doesn't exist, LOL. It's just part of the wonderful Cosmic Game of Hide and Seek. But they do it with such a perfect Poker Face, and put up such a fight that you almost believe them! Careful, ha ha....

PS: And, oh yes, the Christian is none other than God himself, pretending He is someone else, ha ha...

"Oh, NO, Lord, why, I would NEVER want to be YOU!...would I?"

So actually doing some form of religious practice that leads to the realization of enlightenment would destroy them as they presently are in their ignorance, that is why they eschew it.

 

[gnostic]

Religious practice is still a custom of religious dogma and blind faith, whether it be praying or meditating.

 

[godnotgod]

@godnotgod
Perhaps you should take a look at the reality of what i see.

You never answered my question:

Where does your consciousness leave off and space begin?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Gnostic, why do you label yourself as 'gnostic' when you appear to eschew religion, you really sound like an atheist?

 

[ChristineM]

There you have it, you are now totally changing your position, you originally told me that it the still mind meditation was NOT a religious practice, now you are admitting it is a religious practice.

In response to my post #4255 where I said.."There is no belief involved in stilling the mind, it is a religious practice."

You replied in your post #4259 by saying...."No, it is a practice, religion is only involved if you personally wish it to use it as a vehicle to achieve a result."

And as I said all along, the link is irrelevant, the point of contention was that you categorically claimed that still mind meditation was NOT a religious practice.

Bull, read my original post. I provided evidence to disprove your selfish claim and you have been ranting, changing goalposts and manipulating text ever since

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

And how does a sun dial measure time?

Need an emoji for 'ROFL'

 

[ChristineM]

I do not try to belittle you Christine, you do it to yourself. As long as you are not honest with me, you are not honest with yourself.

To quote Shakespeare.."To thy own self be true, and it follows, as night must follow day, thou canst not be false to any man".

Honest? Who are you to berate me for lack of honesty. Your honour has taken a nose dive over this discussion. And all because you are not man enough to admit being beaten by a woman.

 

[ChristineM]

That is correct, I say stilling the mind is a religious practice in my post #4255, and you say it isn't in your post #4259.

You are in error to claim that.

I said not necessarily, and provided evidence to validate that... Evidence you claimed is not relevant

 

[ChristineM]

Haha...is my purple emoji the lie you are referring to?

Look, just post the complete details of whatever it is you are talking about and quit avoiding the issue, as it is I have no idea what you are talking about except that you claim I lied.

I am not going through 2 weeks of your bull, deception, and misrepresentation just because you are frightened of being beaten in a simple discussion.

I provided the evidence to refute you, you claimed it irrelevant
Since then you have tried all ways at your disposal to manipulate my posts by actually lying about them.

No, enough is enough, you have proven your mettle is lacking.

 

[ChristineM]

You never answered my question:

Where does your consciousness leave off and space begin?

Actually i did, seems you ignored the answer

 

[`mud]

Welllllllll......I'm lost !!!!!

 

[`mud]

Whatz the subject ???