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A Universe from Nothing?

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
If it wasn't you, then it was to godnotgod. This thread is massive, and it is not easy to keep track what the I wrote to whom.

But it doesn't matter now, because I am fed up with replying to you.

Beside that, you haven't provided single evidence about the super-charged consciousness, and neither has godnotgod. So it is nothing more than baseless belief.
The questions I've been raising with you are serious and quite down to earth, not about some hypothetical super charged consciousness, but simply what and who is that which is the thinker, the 'I'? It seems to me illogical to go through life using the mind to ponder life and the universe without first knowing directly what and who it is that is doing the pondering?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
As a metaphor, yes, and also as an event that stands on its own, yes.

Here is a video describing the experiment for brain non-locality:


...and here is the actual paper the video refers to from Physics Today:

http://www.deanradin.com/FOC2014/Grinberg1994.pdf

So you shouldn't be able to explain why you believed a silicon based receiving device and radio signal is equates to a carbon based brain.

And a am not asking at the quantum level but the physically visible level.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
So you shouldn't be able to explain why you believed a silicon based receiving device and radio signal is equates to a carbon based brain.

And a am not asking at the quantum level but the physically visible level.

The issue at hand relates to gnostic's description of a brain injury and how consciousness is impacted. The TV metaphor simply illustrates the idea that consciousness may not be strictly local as he implies. The experiment I posted proves it is non-local.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The issue at hand relates to gnostic's description of a brain injury and how consciousness is impacted. The TV metaphor simply illustrates the idea that consciousness may not be strictly local as he implies. The experiment I posted proves it is non-local.

Nope it shows quantum entanglement can occur over short ranges, it also implies (but doesn't actually admit) that the u uncertainty principal cannot be violated

No comparison with a tv tuner and signal
 

gnostic

The Lost One
What's the matter with you?
Why are you so invested in this conversation that you would even say something violent like "bash your head in"?

It is hypothetical scenario, or if you like, an analogy, of what could happen to a person's consciousness, if the person suffer from severe head trauma.

Head trauma can happen not just through violence, but through accident like fall, playing physical sport, car accident, etc. While others may suffer brain damages to diseases, or bacterial infections or wrongly administered treatment or drug abuse.

Would self-awareness be affected, impaired, if a person suffer injury to brain?

I don't mean that I want to literally and physically hit godnotgod. It is just an example, using analogy of what could happen to person's consciousness and mind, if there was physical impacts to head, trauma to the brain.

When I was struggling with finding work as a civil engineer, after "restructuring" of road construction authority, I have worked for a few months in food services of a rehabilitation centre, which served as nursing home to long-term survivors of automobile accidents, I have witnessed some resident patients who had mild to severe brain damages.

For some of patients, their self-awareness (consciousness) are impaired quite extensively.

To say that consciousness and thinking process have nothing to do with the health of physical brains, I would say that a load of bull craps.
 

Regolith Based Lifeforms

Early Earth Was Not Sterile
It is hypothetical scenario, or if you like, an analogy, of what could happen to a person's consciousness, if the person suffer from severe head trauma.

Head trauma can happen not just through violence, but through accident like fall, playing physical sport, car accident, etc. While others may suffer brain damages to diseases, or bacterial infections or wrongly administered treatment or drug abuse.

Would self-awareness be affected, impaired, if a person suffer injury to brain?

I don't mean that I want to literally and physically hit godnotgod. It is just an example, using analogy of what could happen to person's consciousness and mind, if there was physical impacts to head, trauma to the brain.

When I was struggling with finding work as a civil engineer, after "restructuring" of road construction authority, I have worked for a few months in food services of a rehabilitation centre, which served as nursing home to long-term survivors of automobile accidents, I have witnessed some resident patients who had mild to severe brain damages.

For some of patients, their self-awareness (consciousness) are impaired quite extensively.
To say that consciousness and thinking process have nothing to do with the health of physical brains, I would say that a load of bull craps.
Well, i get what you're saying.
I agree with you that a person's consciousness is at the very least partially if not completely altered if anything happens to the brain and even just the body in some circumstances. As far as i can tell, consciousness is a full brain/body experience, but you are talking about simple physical consciousness. These guys are talking about consciousness that survives biological death and that's what everyone's getting hung up on here, plain and simple. Everyone gets as heated on that topic as they do over politics and religion at a bar, so seems it matters quite a bit to quite a few people, both in science and religion, maybe even politics. Some are as desperately hoping it's not true as some are desperately hoping it is. All i know is my waking experiences by day and my dreams at night IF i remember them, i usually don't. I definitely DO remember my waking experiences and their times and locations. If a dead person contacts me during the day and guides me to a solution for a pervasive problem that is unlike anything i know, i can at least test that information and see what happens next.
I have gotten hits on everything from fatherhood to investing in silver to horticulture and farming in less than optimal conditions and i have discovered extraordinary things about all of them in real time which i use on a daily basis to improve my life and save money. Did my deceased relatives speak to me?
I don't really know for sure that i would state it in such self assurance as some do. I have to wonder WHY a person would biologically die, then exist as some coherent form of energy based being that exists in some other type of spacetime that is somehow just adjacent to our spacetime, but not visible.
It sounds like a load of craps to me, but for all the times i responded in that way and got immediately scared ****less, abused and corrected quite quickly and profoundly by the very next person and situation to arise. Since i have adjusted to the possibility of such a reality i have no such scary experiences, but the coincidence phenomenon is itself scary to see operate.
It's definitely got a different way of obeying the second law of thermodynamics. So do dead folks, for that matter as i may be erroneously throwing them in with the coincidence phenomenon. They definitely seem to be a big part of it,but i have pictures of something else that suggests that the coincidence phenomenon is a property of the universe, whether or not the universe itself is conscious as we understand consciousness.... i don't think we've done the study of the human version of it justice yet, so i'll leave it at that.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I agree with you that a person's consciousness is at the very least partially if not completely altered if anything happens to the brain and even just the body in some circumstances. As far as i can tell, consciousness is a full brain/body experience, but you are talking about simple physical consciousness. These guys are talking about consciousness that survives biological death and that's what everyone's getting hung up on here, plain and simple. Everyone gets as heated on that topic as they do over politics and religion at a bar, so seems it matters quite a bit to quite a few people, both in science and religion, maybe even politics. Some are as desperately hoping it's not true as some are desperately hoping it is. All i know is my waking experiences by day and my dreams at night IF i remember them, i usually don't. I definitely DO remember my waking experiences and their times and locations. If a dead person contacts me during the day and guides me to a solution for a pervasive problem that is unlike anything i know, i can at least test that information and see what happens next.

Twenty or more years ago, I probably would have swallow that sort of garbage YouTube video that godnotgod keep posting up here, because I used that person who wanted to believe...and believe just about anything that come my ways.

From mid-teen to mid-30, I used to believe in the bible, from creation to Jesus, although I had never join a church, never baptised. I simply stopped looking for a church to join after turning 20. And not long after I didn't pick up the bible again until 2000.

But from mid-teen to early 20s, I thought other things were possible too, like reincarnation, psychics, ghosts, spirits, UFO, astrology, etc. You name it, I would try to seek it out. Although I wasn't that active in my search from mid-20 to mid-30, because I was too busy with works, I didn't stop wanting to believe and to believe in anything.

But when I started my website Timeless Myths back in 1999, I began exploring ancient literature for my website, and picked up the bible again the following year as part of my research on the Grail (for the Arthurian Legends), I came to question everything that I used to believe in.

A few years after starting the website, I have become agnostic with religion, and skeptic about everything else that I would classify as supernatural or paranormal.

And this non-locality communication would fall under that category than science.

I no longer take anything said at face value, particularly with religion (and spirituality), philosophy and science. If I am going to accept anything to be true, then I would need some verifiable empirical evidences to support it.

The link godnotgod provided, the so-called "peer review" hasn't made any landmark or breakthrough discovery, no conclusive and verifiable evidences. It is still more conceptual (and wishful thinking) than factual.

Have there been quantum scientists lining up to do experiment on non-local communication?
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
What's the matter with you?
Why are you so invested in this conversation that you would even say something violent like "bash your head in"?
I wanna learn why people who post here speak so authoritatively and in such finalistic terms as if there's NO DOUBT it's out there and exists, no matter what it is.
I also want to know why i refer to myself as "i" or "Myself" at all. Ya know why i use the little 'i'? Cuz that's about what i feel is relevant and necessary to describe the concept enough to be understood by others of my species. I'm a body taking the time to post anything at all on any of this and wondering why?
I think, and i say just "think" that saying "i" is NOT any sign of consciousness outside the brain, but the fact that we ask this question at all could possibly indicate a level of consciousness outside the brain. Let's not forget about our very low amplitude electromagnetic and heat emissions, none of which are uselessly undifferentiated simple heat emissions. We should understand that if we can have a physical energy emissions spectrum that can be felt and detected at several feet, then we have a lot of information coming at us which could definitely be perceived as something like telepathy when it really isn't, but something built into the human body and brain and nervous system which is no less remarkable. Then there is stuff like dreams that come exactly true. Hmmmm.
Can't make that happen, but there it is. Information going the wrong way in time.... What kind of physics is that?
And then there's the coincidence phenomenon posted right up there on my profile....
I'll start by saying there may really be no such thing as time, but since i'm a hominid (ape) living on a planet where the hominids on it measure their concept of time by the very regular and predictable rotation of the planet and it's orbital period period around the central star which is also very regular and predictable, i will refer to time normally as most hominids do in terms of our globally accepted system of measurement of duration known as time measured in years, months, days, hours, minutes and seconds.
If i/we did not spend such effort on measuring time, i would have never spotted the coincidence phenomenon, but my clocks showed it to me by certain numbers showing up repeatedly and in perfect time correlation to the situations they occurred during that there was a pattern which led me to see and discover other correlations between various natural phenomena which can occur repeatedly, yet are somehow random and they are! I have no way of knowing what will occur in my day and neither does anyone else to any precision or certainty. Yet repeating coincidences occur frequently enough that even they become predictable in a way. This has all raised many uncomfortable questions for me because many if not all of these repeating coincidences require an explanation after evidence of them has been collected. The trail of time correlated physical evidence as a diverse and rather large number of items that are all tied together by a specific system of geometry, size correlation between all items as well as a specific set of colors, which all associated themselves with various concepts that i was to later learn about in depth, one by one, color by color, all by COMPLETE FREAKING COINCIDENCE!
REALLY?!
Do you think for a minute i considered any of this possible when i first encountered it? HELL NO!
What did that do for me? It seemed to... no, it DID, it made the coincidences with specific people much more intense and much scarier. It was the people too that caught my attention, always the same kind of person with the same physical attributes to an oddly narrow variance. After this had happened many times while i was aware of it and actively observing it i thought it would be productive to ask police officers if they had ever seen the specific people i described at any specific types of calls. I only asked once because that policeman knew exactly what i was asking about and said he had seen them at many calls involving fights as spectators and very frequently as first responders. I asked him what he thought when he encounters them and he said he typically worries for them because they seem more likely to get involved and get hurt than most other types of folks by far.
I can't make this schist up, i can't make it happen. I can only spot timeframe and location points where it's likely to occur once in a while.
Simple rule to how i detect it, for any physical occurrence of it, it's either a 1 or a 0, it's either there or it isn't.
If it's a 1, check for symmetries with other incidences, evidences.
Every symmetry is a 1 and the number of symmetries is only limited by the complete number of specific incidences and physical items i have as reference points to all of this. I have no idea what that number is now, it's been a while.
If there are more than three symmetries the chances typically increase that there will be others and they are precise to beyond what i physically and statistically 'know' to be basically impossible.
Unfortunately for us who cling close to science and evidence, this appears, figuratively speaking, to be the tip of the iceberg, but hey, I'm not running any giant ship into it or anything. I'm gonna GPS the ship's autonavigation to this iceberg's position and movements and have a good close look, though.
I should have brought consciousness to the point of this, so i'm editing.
These coincidences with specific people at specific types of correlating events should not happen the way they do if all these folks and incidences are NON RELATED. ... And they Are non-related people places and incidences all showing a type of reflection of this one single set of information being addressed in the coincidences. Any incident or piece of evidence that consists of information that matches that of any other odd occurrence of a coincidence will yield even more specific information if it is traced and investigated to it's origin and it's the information about the origin that ends up correlating with everything else in this set of information. One set of information emitted by multiple sources, all physically and even historically related to that set of information, each occurring time synchronous to other information coming in new situations and coincidences, all of which are completely random.
That's called Non-locality if i understand it right and i think that may be a function and property of consciousness as i've heard it described in other's speculations.
Once something weird happens three times, i investigate and i ALWAYS find something interesting and physically useful to the point that i'm almost giddy with delight when it does. If it's doing that, then i needed to be paying attention to this all along.
My set of information is coming from a specific set of people from Spain near the Pyrenees, straight south of Lourdes, France, best landmark that's easy to see on a map. Now here's a real problem, the people in Spain lived around a thousand years ago, yet they were able to describe their origins and give me their names.

"Ra...mir..o. ...Ramiro", it came in.... ( JUST YIKES )
"Ok," i said to who or whatever was talking to me, i said "ok, what's the lady's name?" "Er... ma... sind... a, ....Ermasinda"

Needless to say, this daytime waKING EXPERIENCE SENT ME RUNNING HOME TO MY COMPUTER TO GOOGLE IT AND THERE HE WAS! ...!!! ..!
WTF!?
HOw is this happening???!!!
I'll go on if you're interested, but i gotta stop now, i'm making too many mkistakes, hope posting this wasn't one of them., if this is a real as it appears to be, then everyone has a right to know about it.
What did you Google to find there it was? To be clear, you are talking about some Spanish folk who lived circa 1000 AD? What were the circumstances of your first coming into contact with then and how did it unfold? Are they of Christian faith?

Indeed I find your story very interesting though I don't yet get some of it, so definitely please continue?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
So you shouldn't be able to explain why you believed a silicon based receiving device and radio signal is equates to a carbon based brain.

And a am not asking at the quantum level but the physically visible level.

The issue at hand relates to gnostic's description of a brain injury and how consciousness is impacted. The TV metaphor simply illustrates the idea that consciousness may not be strictly local as he implies. The experiment I posted proves it is non-local.
Ok, read the paper, it brings in nothing new about the epr paradox and in no way relates the brain to a tv signal

Did I say that it did?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Nope it shows quantum entanglement can occur over short ranges, it also implies (but doesn't actually admit) that the u uncertainty principal cannot be violated

No comparison with a tv tuner and signal

I never claimed any such comparison was in either the essay or the video.

Yes, it proves nonlocality of the brain. Watch the video.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
The link godnotgod provided, the so-called "peer review" hasn't made any landmark or breakthrough discovery, no conclusive and verifiable evidences. It is still more conceptual (and wishful thinking) than factual.

Have there been quantum scientists lining up to do experiment on non-local communication?

Yes, as a matter of fact, the Quantum Physicist, Amit Goswamii, had a hand in the Jacobo-Grinberg experiment referred to in the video at the University of Mexico.

Why did you put "peer review" in quotes? To imply that it is not legitimate? It was published in Physics Essays. The experiment demonstrated nonlocal communication between two entangled human brains. Is that not both landmark and breakthrough?


"Physics Essays is an international journal dedicated to theoretical and experimental aspects of fundamental problems in physics and, generally, to the advancement of basic knowledge of physics...

...Articles submitted for publication will be reviewed by scientific peers.

About the Journal - Physics Essays Publication


Other versions of the original experiment have been carried out around the world since then. I gave you a partial list in a previous post, which you chose to ignore out of your ignorance and recalcitrance. I put the truth right under your nose, and you dismiss it as insignificant. What's wrong with you?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The issue at hand relates to gnostic's description of a brain injury and how consciousness is impacted. The TV metaphor simply illustrates the idea that consciousness may not be strictly local as he implies. The experiment I posted proves it is non-local.


Did I say that it did?


You implied it by quoting the destruction of a tv set in response to gnostics post, then providing an irrelevant video and scientific paper as a rouse, in pretense of vcalidating your nonsense
 

Regolith Based Lifeforms

Early Earth Was Not Sterile
What did you Google to find there it was? To be clear, you are talking about some Spanish folk who lived circa 1000 AD? What were the circumstances of your first coming into contact with then and how did it unfold? Are they of Christian faith?

Indeed I find your story very interesting though I don't yet get some of it, so definitely please continue?
Well, strangely enough i googled "The first king of Aragon" instead of Ramiro and Ermasinda, but holy crap, there Ramiro showed up at the top of the Wikipedia list with a portrait turned up at the top of a list of the kings of Aragon, Spain, First one. The listing also had Ermasinda's name as his wife. Now i should have been freaked out at how i got those two names, but i completely forgot about that detail for 4 and a half months as something else in that portrait had taken my attention. I was expecting someone who looks something like King Ferdinand who sent Columbus over here. Instead, i got ....oooohhhh....(!)
"This cannot be true, this is not going to pan out, i'm just being craz-..."
I held up a mirror to my computer screen after magnifying king Ramiro's head to approximately the size of my own head reflecting in the mirror right beside the screen and again, another huge blow to my physical reality i thought i knew so well. I dropped the mirror, couldn't hold back the tears at that point and said outloud "WHAT in the HOLY **** is THAT doing there?!" After regaining dryness i said "Well, at least i know what i'm gonna look like when i'm around 65 to 70. I felt very tired after that for the rest of the day. When i remembered How i got the two names 4 and a half months later, i realized how glad i was to have forgotten about it for that long. I still had not adjusted fully to seeing everyday physics and statistical likelihood being smashed and trashed by spooky coincidences and highly unlikely alignments of coherent information. I knew this just shouldn't be happening so i checked myself for mental illnesses and personality disorders that might cause someone to experience such things, but NOTHING came even close to describing what i was experiencing. I checked for delusions, magical thinking, confirmation bias and reviewed again and again the scientific method and just stuck with. Once i had a good sized collection of physical occurrences and evidence to suggest that i had spent enough time studying this alternate reality , i realized that i could trust my observations, tests and even crude measurements of it to more easily accept that it was a real thing. Once i had established that for myself along with word for word reports from several other people who have described their own experiences that matched my own along with my reactions to it, i was satisfied with my efforts and results. It's not really peer review, but matching information between dissociated non related points is still matching information.
This is somewhat frustrating for me because i so seldom can find the words to report and describe this, then it all comes out at once, so keep asking questions and eventually, we'll get this all down.
To answer your questions,
King Ramiro was born in 1007 ad, died 1068 ad.
My first contact with all and any of this occurred in 2011 when i lived in Denver CO. I encountered some folks whose lineage went right to a village bearing their last name in Spain just south of the Pyrenees. There's no way I'm gonna post their name here or anywhere, but they showed me a side of life 180 degrees off from everything i thought i knew. it was like walking though a mirror into the reflection and when i came back i retained the ability to see everything from the opposite point of view. I seldom if ever agree with what i perceive from that point of view, but it allows me to enter the mindset of others enough to make some pretty accurate predictions about what someone will do and Why they're doing it. This ability alone far exceeds anything i know of my ability before any of this happened. It also allows me to find solutions to some difficulties by being more understanding and compassionate of others and what they're going through. I never cared before like i do now.
As far as i know King Ramiro and most in his region were Christian. At the time of Ramiro's death, the Moors were being driven back from the foothills of the Pyrenees, later to be routed out of all of Spain. The Pyrenees along with the entire north of Spain were partially invaded, but never
conquered by the Moors or 'Umayyad Caliphate'. You will notice a difference in some of the music from northern Spain as it retains many elements of European music from Celtic times through the middle ages, some of which was picked up as hymns and church music. The music from the rest of Spain sounds somewhat similar to some Arabic music for a good reason. It kind of is, even though the Umayyads were only there for around a hundred years.
Now the folks in Colorado had an ability to read a person accurately by sensing the person with their ...appeared to be their whole body and mind at once, maybe their entire energy fields. It was rather strange because you could actually feel it in a way. They also had an odd physical appearance to their eyes, a very lucid, aroused appearance, but it's not from arousal, it's something else. Since the eyes had a consistent appearance across several family members i looked for anyone else with that same appearance, as it was a physical clue i could follow just like the family surname. I googled the surname, to see if the same physical trait could be seen in others with the same surname. HIT!, HIT!, HIT! Now i had not yet actually had the experience that told me about king Ramiro, but it was only a day or two later that i had the story that got me to look him up. There again was that strange appearance to the eyes, but King Ramiro is not discernibly related to the folks in Colorado, just the long ago king of the region their ancestry is from.
Important to note however, that the surname is closely associated with the royal families of Spain fro a long time as administrators and other occupations in service of the kings/royal families. (Learned that from researching the surname to its origin.)
Now to this day i have no odd interactions with anyone EXCEPT people from that very same region and people from there who closely match the folks in Colorado in physical appearance and origin. To this day i cannot pass smoothly by anyone fitting this information. They always look at me intently as if they know me when i know damned well they DON'T.

(Do they?)
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
You implied it by quoting the destruction of a tv set in response to gnostics post, then providing an irrelevant video and scientific paper as a rouse, in pretense of vcalidating your nonsense

I 'implied' no such thing, any 'implication' being a fabrication only in your own mind. Perhaps you should try to understand what metaphor and analogy are, as ben d suggested.

The video and peer-reviewed paper in Physics Essays both explain the experiment, which you apparently failed to comprehend. As mentioned, the renowned physicist, Amit Goswami, was a part of the experiment, lending even more credibility to it. In fact, it is upheld as valid even today.

You just won't accept fact, which you and gnostic constantly whine about. But when put right under your nose, you poo poo it, and create diversions.

If you reject the very thing you demand, then nothing more can be done for you.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I 'implied' no such thing, any 'implication' being a fabrication only in your own mind. Perhaps you should try to understand what metaphor and analogy are, as ben d suggested.

The video and peer-reviewed paper in Physics Essays both explain the experiment, which you apparently failed to comprehend. As mentioned, the renowned physicist, Amit Goswami, was a part of the experiment, lending even more credibility to it. In fact, it is upheld as valid even today.

You just won't accept fact, which you and gnostic constantly whine about. But when put right under your nose, you poo poo it, and create diversions.

If you reject the very thing you demand, then nothing more can be done for you.

Then why bother linking to the paper as as response? Simple, you either hoped to bamboozle gnostic and me or you actually believed it was relevant, in which case it's you who failed to understand it.

I provided you with a brief synapses of the paper, a post that apparently pushed your panic button and now you are resorting to ad hominem to cover your base backside.

I demand nothing, only honesty.
 
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