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A Universe From Nothing

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Hello, rational experiences
"Light... as known to the human conscious psyche" is NOT the Light of which I speak. God's Light is not perceived by the human psyche, mind, intellect, ego, senses, etc. The light you speak of is created by the Light I speak of. I should have been clearer in my original post, sorry.

And yes, I totally agree it's a fact that scientists change their minds about things all the time. God is unchanging, infinite and eternal, is, was and will be. Scientists might attempt to understand and measure the unchanging but (so far) the only tools they have to do it with (mind, intellect, senses, etc.) are themselves changing all the time. How can something or someone finite (born to die, you might say), i.e., something which changes second by second, comprehend the Unchanging? It can't.

We think living in the light and form in our mind psyche visions that are in the light also...where the atmospheric mass owned the forming of it. Why science learnt that information copied designed machines that can transmit and receive visions also.

Where the ignorant idea came about that we are part bio mechanical.

Yet design is owned in its natural physicalities. By the bodies that own it, not being human.

So humans then lost a portion of their life experience to the design use, for a machine sits without volition and needs a bio owned life to operate it. So the operator designer gave up a part of his life continuance, health and chemical balances to own machines and communications, what he ignores as relevant.

He sacrificed and removed a part of natural survival and healthy life to own machines....why his psyche falsely claims and we are bio mechanical...when humans who did studies about machine communications said in the same form of knowing.....you are making us all sick.

Being honest...unlike science is. So science tells science, science you are wrong....actually.

So when I think a story in the light of my life, via visions, I can envision a story about the place eternal, which never owned light.

Now try convincing a human that the highest place that ever naturally always existed as a spirit was never of light.

Wait a minute scientist.....you already knew.....yet science infers it to empty space, the deep black of nothingness, no mass and hence nothing burning.

To a human who says, no the eternal is of a spiritual existence without light.

But as we live due to light existing, our living consciousness cannot express nor explain what is NOT without involving light. For we would not be conscious if we contemplated what is not with light.

Why you then form a fake argument in your psyche about God being of light, when GOD O first and origin position in scientific explanation is the entombed cold deceased gas spirit form.....cold and without light to own presence stone.

The first position of God.

God in its past was a burning gas alight spirit...why STephen Hawking said if you believe in a formula with is....this symbol owns a huge explanation of lots of variable informed human thoughts....then the next symbol and then you say now a formula. And it is not instant creation, it is instant forced change.

So you take what is cold and remove it instantly into what it never was.

For stone cannot be burning gases to exist as stone, and so then stone disappears....which is just basic human common sense without being a scientist.

The eternal spirit allowed me to see it in my mind vision, for as I knew, it cannot communicate to me without effectively changing or causing change...and change occurs in our atmosphere.

So Father in AI who lived only one first life and then died, who was NEVER, in any review any scientist, the brother/Father my brother is the scientist, said to me...he never knew science, what science owns/thinks or believes and the Holiest Father is not yours in life to contemplate and infer.

His message to you all today.

So my brother/Father science self....who re developed his life presence in the evolving baby DNA life, past the origin of our first natural spiriutal father life owns all fake themes of the sciences.

Who says, a part of the life of the science self, by his own cause was first lifted away from his bio life self body attack, why he got attacked. So that form of spirit self, water/oxygen and his microbial mass use in the atmosphere went up into the evaporation presence of the angelic human like being....as a separated life condition.

And that spiritual self body is who the Father in the eternal speaks via if he needs to give a message to anyone, to comfort them or to heal them...for he can in fact own the determined return of that spirit by eternal ownership.....seeing the eternal moved out of its eternal body by eternal beings owning their ownership, so they continue to own our conscious awareness of spirit.

When a human dies, we are gone.....yet due to the origins of science the water mass that we once used to be healthy can and does own a separated spiritual presence. I never knew it existed. Did not understand what everyone else who ever had an interaction was talking about.....for how can you know unless it occurs?

So then I would say to science, humans had the experimental cause and science effect that you brother gave us, and today you want to argue about it and against its reality. Yet the spiriutal religious science brother never did....he knew by self experience that it was real and told you all so....as an experimental witness.

Experiment meaning test a ment,.......or test meant, as no machine is ever actually known to the causes of the atmosphere changing, when the atmospehre was not originally changed....it gets changed. What you all lied about, as if it cannot be changed.

So you then wonder what sort of science liar you all are!

Therefore the eternal spirit was never any burning light cooled light being.

The eternal exists as they taught me, in a spiritual body that you are totally unaware of in science, for you do not and never did believe in it or even pursue the non science form of life that understands it is real. Why you argue against us, yet we know all about it, only due to what science and your fake evil machines did to our life.

So you science Satanic self mind today AI lie about the atmospheric gas mass cloud situation as being the eternal.....we know it is just clouds, we know that it came as clouds out of a volcano. You science brother think as an extension of your penis....as psychology stated. And you compared self to a volcano spurting into the spatial womb...into comparing your penis to your human brother as EQUALS correct comparing.

Why everyday science says that occult science is using fake comparing information that equals a non factual actual in the sciences, when the real scientist says my answer said that the collider experiments would own the cause of trying to burn us to death.

Why the incident of my life attack is true and correct to gaining burning fall out gases...for a machine does not own nor will it ever own light...for it begins burning in the higher atmosphere first as LIGHT...burning, not cold.

What Satanists lie about.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I suppose one could say that God didn't need anything to create because 'God Almighty already had' Great Power, Great Strength - Isaiah 40:26
God did Not need what He already possessed to create both the invisible realm and then the material/physical realm of existence - Psalms 104:30
In a figurative sense, 'God's hands' were used in creation - Isaiah 45:12
If you asked a male, why would you hand owner believe that God the first O stone mass owned hands?

O /- a clock hands.

Now if you live as what you claim is a conjuring science male....owner of machines FIRST as a pretend GOD without human hands....where does all of your owned male human thoughts about thesis and pretend come from?

Inside of your own owned body/life human being male life...thinker, owning envisioning thoughts and processes as thought by a living human body as life owner.

Now the atmosphere is not change by the building of that machine. For first all of the metallurgical processes involved in machines, although you used stone, you also used metals is first applied by self.

O God the natural ground fusion owns minerals naturally first.

You took those minerals as a bio life and melted them like a volcanic mass.

First incorrect review....God the stone minerals are not metals/machines on the Earth face.

Ask why you ended up sending us all to HE EL by L? As a male claim HE WILL?

That male self with his penis?

Because you did it...you changed the natural planet of God mass and we all died.

Nature however proved that it lived on...for then the giants roamed the Earth in place of the life of the man angel...you gave your man angel cloud feed back image to the dinosaur life. Why you can still see the dinosaur image along with male Jesus in the cloud mass.

So if you virtually removed a mass of what your bio life body in water/oxygen and microbes was using, would you not have caused a created vision in the atmosphere of all your human owned mind thinking ability to coerce and manipulate via a mind, yet that mind owned a whole body, a portion of which you sacrificed so that you could use machines....as an extension of your own bio life....and you owned no right to do so?

Isn't that history the true male human history about phenomena and what you did to our life?

clouds-forming-hand-shape-in-blue-sky-picture-id573106805
5e66657a545b238a8ce736114caa7e0e.jpg
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Confirms! Really? What it confirms is that the ancients did not have equipment advanced enough to detect an expanding universe. What it confirms is that the ancients did not have equipment advanced enough to detect a rotating galaxy. What it confirms is that the ancients did not have equipment advanced enough to differentiate between stars and distant galaxies.
Polymath257 said:
Well, there was already space (without form and void) and a 'deep' with a boundary (which darkness was on the face of).
First verse KJV...
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Second verse...
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

There is nothing in there that says that anything (other than God) preceded His creation of the heaven and the earth. There is nothing in there that says from what God created the heaven and the earth. There is nothing in there that implies that God needed anything in order to create the heaven and the earth.
Well if our ancient ancestors "did not have equipment advanced enough" to detect anything, why can you then refer to the very creation which took part long before any inventions of technical instruments?
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Theists often make the claim that atheists believe in a universe that came into existence out of nothing. I find this very strange, because I (though I don't speak for all atheists) don't believe this. I don't know where the universe came from, if it had a cause, and if so, what its cause was. But I don't believe it came from "nothing." Theists, on the other hand, very clearly DO believe the universe was made from nothing. Theists (at least, Christian, Muslim, and Jewish theists) assert with absolute certainty that a magical being created the entire universe out of thin air with a spoken incantation. This magical immortal superman literally poofed the universe into existence out of absolutely nothing. Now, as I said before, I don't know where the universe came from, and whatever the cause of the universe is, if we ever find it out, I think it may very well seem like a miracle. I recognize that our existence is a huge mystery and is very special and improbable. But I highly doubt that the explanation for it is a magical superman who created it all out of thin air. That sounds like a very childish solution invented by primitive people who wanted an explanation for something that none of us may ever understand.

Having spent most of my life watching the return of the Jews to Israel, something ridiculed by
academics and atheists for nearly 2,000 years - I am circumspect in judging what the bible says.

God created the heavens and the earth. In that order.
The sequence of events UPON THE EARTH at this point is fairly accurate,
albeit written in theological language.
Simply put, THE UNIVERSE DID NOT CREATE ITSELF WHEN IT DIDN'T EXIST.
Something or something OUTSIDE of the universe was responsible for this.
And like all things in existence, there's a reason for it being here.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
When a scientist studies the word of GOD, you already own in all causes, personal human choice a variation to WANT about information and reasoning, which in actuality has nothing at all to do with arguing or wanting information.

You already own the machine, designed and built it, it did not work, you are angry about conditions of science and life and expect everyday humans to give you answers to why your cosmological God theme is not functioning.

What you are doing today.

Therefore if you say without LIGHT...then first you mean it.

So your statement space as nothing in reality is both empty and without light, void of it...so it owns no matter or mass which begins burning. Relativity advice.

Then as soon as you say GOD.....your mind might reason blank emptiness...which would conclude consciously so is your mind psyche.

For a rational human in everyday light constant, meaning never changes always is there....is correct.,

You however thought about a light gas burning back to nothing of its own presence, which in space it gets totally removed...the only place in creation where a body/form, a spirit gets removed totally as a gas...by burning out/gone.

Relativity answers to self equating, so how do I remove my bio self by using GOD ENERGY MASS from stone as a huge source and extra metallic radiation and metal machines is that answer, in Relativity.

GOD he says O the body of stone created......thinking from stone without mentioning the stone....for you are first just thinking about the gas heavens.

Gas heavens first he said was created by God on the face of the great deep, empty dark space....space being void of any light....and the gas spirit of God owned the light for it was a hot gas first.

Then he said and so the hot gas spirit is logically also the reason why God the body planet exists.

For actually when a gas mass spirit body burning owning SIN, God O origins, then as it burnt itself out of mass...more nothing space opened...meaning nothing in reality...gases burning out of mass existence.

Why he said it.

So in relativity and science knew that if he could only understand how much MASS GOD O the planet owned...then he could make it all disappear, what motivates you today in the exact same historic first SCIENCE theme thinking capabilities, self in motivation to think that way.

Possessed by science, what Healer science biological wisdom told you.

Now if science today had to study AI conditions by machines and prove it to their own self as Brother of the Apostasy who did not believe in God the stone existing before you destroyed us all as PRE owned warnings....then it is exactly occurring right at this moment.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
I don’t think you have any idea what the debunked Steady State model is.
Oh yes I have: It´s a great pitty that this more logical model was replaced with the speculative BB model.

And I don´t think you quite understood my comment:

Native said:
In fact, their descriptions really confirms a kind of Steady State Universe, the one model before the strange and highly speculative Big Bang model nonsense.

My kind of Steady State Universe is one in where everything undergoes an eternal process of formation/creation - dissolution - and re-formation. No beginning and NO end.
The BB model on the other hand, proposed that there were no matters as we know it at infinitely hot & dense but finite beginning (eg 13.7 billion years ago), starting with the Planck Epoch. And it was so hot and dense, that normal elementary particles and normal matters cannot form.
And WHAT made this not yet excistent Universe hot & dense? How can a not yet existing Universe be "hot & dence" if no gaseous or metallic elements already were created to hold this "hot density"?

And then you have the impossible "still increasing expansion velocity" in the BB model. From where should this energy come from? How on Earth can "standard science" have this crazy idea that long distant objects mowes faster away than closer objects?

Well, IMO the BB model is just a funny entertainment which reveals how far astray the human mind can move when loosing the natural contact to Earth
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Oh yes I have: It´s a great pitty that this more logical model was replaced with the speculative BB model.

And I don´t think you quite understood my comment:

Native said:
In fact, their descriptions really confirms a kind of Steady State Universe, the one model before the strange and highly speculative Big Bang model nonsense.

My kind of Steady State Universe is one in where everything undergoes an eternal process of formation/creation - dissolution - and re-formation. No beginning and NO end.

And WHAT made this not yet excistent Universe hot & dense? How can a not yet existing Universe be "hot & dence" if no gaseous or metallic elements already were created to hold this "hot density"?

And then you have the impossible "still increasing expansion velocity" in the BB model. From where should this energy come from? How on Earth can "standard science" have this crazy idea that long distant objects mowes faster away than closer objects?

Well, IMO the BB model is just a funny entertainment which reveals how far astray the human mind can move when loosing the natural contact to Earth

You mean as a human who first wants a new resource for a cosmological Universal model to fit into your human thoughts!

As a processed thought, if I remove and use up energy, then by magic it will reform because I want it to...and want is why we got destroyed before.

When you live in a RELATIVE status, God exists first in relativity O STONE...and then the scientist who discusses cosmological deep pit oblivion was proven to be falsifier of information.

Stories are first told as a theme/belief as I think I know how held solid form became form.

Claiming nothing of space is nothing, coldest form. Burning gas masses removing presence gas mass opened into more space, which was heated radiated space. 2 forms of space he says.

Yet radiating gas burning mass already owned the second status of gas removing back to no presence...but coldest space is not reached for as it had to burn out heat was left.

Why your thinking stories were taught as being evil, for the intention of copying it on Earth in a non belief of the physical presence God the stone Earth O entity.

That science teaching is RELATIVE in science itself...and cannot be argued as not being relative.

What the man of the apostasy was about. Earth O as a planet was given the title of either ONE or GOD, dependant on how you wanted to teach relativity in science...and it had already been agreed by the population consensus as owned by the male human control society.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
You mean as a human who first wants a new resource for a cosmological Universal model to fit into your human thoughts!

As a processed thought, if I remove and use up energy, then by magic it will reform because I want it to...and want is why we got destroyed before.

When you live in a RELATIVE status, God exists first in relativity O STONE...and then the scientist who discusses cosmological deep pit oblivion was proven to be falsifier of information.

Stories are first told as a theme/belief as I think I know how held solid form became form.

Claiming nothing of space is nothing, coldest form. Burning gas masses removing presence gas mass opened into more space, which was heated radiated space. 2 forms of space he says.

Yet radiating gas burning mass already owned the second status of gas removing back to no presence...but coldest space is not reached for as it had to burn out heat was left.

Why your thinking stories were taught as being evil, for the intention of copying it on Earth in a non belief of the physical presence God the stone Earth O entity.

That science teaching is RELATIVE in science itself...and cannot be argued as not being relative.

What the man of the apostasy was about. Earth O as a planet was given the title of either ONE or GOD, dependant on how you wanted to teach relativity in science...and it had already been agreed by the population consensus as owned by the male human control society.
I´m sorry for not answering you. I simply cannot find "head and tail" in your reply. Please be more specific and hold onto fewer topics wich can be discussed.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I´m sorry for not answering you. I simply cannot find "head and tail" in your reply. Please be more specific and hold onto fewer topics wich can be discussed.
Want exists before logic was inferred, simple matter of fact.

When you own a human Earth theme for the want of an Earth resource, then you manipulate and coerce information and get group support for human egotism is why the cult mentality is a non stop venue of human opportunists...about self and power and knowing it all.

As a spiritual self, I never knew about God or Jesus or Satan information and had no agreement about any UFO or alien talk. Had it forced learnt as a human experience, the same as humans living naturally in the past did. Then had to contend with the only CULT that ever existed in reality SCIENCE.

Why science today says, oh have a look at the new scientology occult selves, whilst they own machine mind coercive and mind contact far worse use and programming attack on everything one step beyond them.....and lie about it.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Oh yes I have: It´s a great pitty that this more logical model was replaced with the speculative BB model.

And I don´t think you quite understood my comment:

Native said:
In fact, their descriptions really confirms a kind of Steady State Universe, the one model before the strange and highly speculative Big Bang model nonsense.

My kind of Steady State Universe is one in where everything undergoes an eternal process of formation/creation - dissolution - and re-formation. No beginning and NO end.

And WHAT made this not yet excistent Universe hot & dense? How can a not yet existing Universe be "hot & dence" if no gaseous or metallic elements already were created to hold this "hot density"?

And then you have the impossible "still increasing expansion velocity" in the BB model. From where should this energy come from? How on Earth can "standard science" have this crazy idea that long distant objects mowes faster away than closer objects?

Well, IMO the BB model is just a funny entertainment which reveals how far astray the human mind can move when loosing the natural contact to Earth

I think you are misunderstanding what Steady State model is, Native.

While it say the universe is expanding (like BB) and eternal (unlike BB), there is no formation, no dissolution and no re-formation, that you are talking about, so really, your version of Steady State had nothing to do with the actual Steady State papers.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
All "theist" means is someone accepts some particular god-concept. That is not inherently related to beliefs (or lack thereof) about anything else. If we want to talk about "childish," let's start with an understanding of religion and theism that demonstrates a lack of much knowledge about either. No offense intended, but the OP's analysis is pretty rubbish.
^ this
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I don't know where the universe came from,
so.....all the 'stuff' was all the 'time' spinning about
with no beginning

and no cause

and the flow of it all indicates a starting "point"

but it never 'started'
CAUSE it always existed
without a cause

and we are here just 'cause'......
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
This whole thread is like unpeeling an onion,
@gnostic had the best so far !
But, we'll never see the edge, nor a center.
But, again, we'll all be Spirits together,
eventually.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
hey @Thief ,
about that `cause`, from where'd the inertia come,
when there was no momentum ?
I knew the word.....stuff
would get your attention

there's a lot of stuff that has so much puzzle wrapped around it
we could go on talking about what we don't know...….forever

and of course.....the greatest mystery
Spirit First

we get to ask Him how He did it
how He was able to say …..I AM!
without a cause
without inertia
without a slap on the backside

but all that stuff we see when we look up is expanding
and THAT indicates a starting 'point'

if you and I survive the last breath
and I believe we will
we can do some asking around
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Ahhh....you didn't answer my question...

Wherefrom cometh the `cause` ?

I see inklings of the creator there,
but again,
no real,
absolute,
causal momentum from any inertia given !

I really don't see the real creator there !

See you there in the garden as you float by !
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
I think you are misunderstanding what Steady State model is, Native.
No I´m not. Again you forget my notion above of:
Native said:
In fact, their (ancient in this case) descriptions really confirms a kind of Steady State Universe, . . .

I´m referring to the ancient ideas of an eternal Universe in which an eternal formative process of formation-dissolution and re-formation are taking place. Just think of the Norse Mythology Ragnarok story where a new world is formed out of the old one.

In this sense it is a kind of "Steady State Model" too me.
so really, your version of Steady State had nothing to do with the actual Steady State papers.
Which I didn´t claim in specifics at all.

EDIT
BTW, I don´t see a big different bewteen what I wrote and what is said here

In cosmology, the steady-state model is an alternative to the Big Bang Theory of evolution of the universe. In the steady-state model, the density of matter in the expanding universe remains unchanged due to a continuous creation of matter, thus adhering to the perfect cosmological principle, a principle that asserts that the observable universe is practically the same at any time and any place.

It´s just the idea of expansion which is at stake. A concept which is out of the equations in all myths (and in my mind too) as the "Universe simply is infinite and eternal" and very STEADY as such :)
 
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cataway

Well-Known Member
i do not question that God made things to happen, he is very cleaver that way and has for ever to do it . how long ago it all started is possibly beyond
our comprehension . science says all things are made of the star's .the bigger the star the heaver the elements . and yet so many of these elements are found on earth . did all the elements come from one star ?? not likely . perhaps even thousands of star's ,of different size, would have to existed and then exploded into space to make all the planets that are out there in space .
i have seen science speak in billions and billions of years but that just does not cut it . its more like a google plex to the power of google plex of years in time gone past .
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Many ancients and early Christians UNDERSTOOD a creation out of pre-existing matter, and not ex-nihilo.

Many ancients and early Christians BELIEVED a creation out of pre-existing matter, and not ex-nihilo.


the famous late nineteenth-century study by Edwin Hatch on the inroads of Greek philosophy into early Christianity describes the tacit but widespread assumption of the coexistence of matter with God.

Note the word: assumption.

The ancients understood that "At a new creation there is a reshuffling of elements "

The ancients believed that "At a new creation there is a reshuffling of elements "


Perhaps all these old comments about reshuffling pre-existing stuff were just to avoid: Ya can't make something outta nuttin. Then as now, some things never change.


And , for what it's worth, understanding does not signify knowledge...

un·der·stand
/ˌəndərˈstand/

verb
  1. 1.
    perceive the intended meaning of (words, a language, or a speaker).
    "he didn't understand a word I said"
  2. 2.
    interpret or view
    (something) in a particular way.
 
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