A Universe From Nothing

[Rational Agnostic]

Theists often make the claim that atheists believe in a universe that came into existence out of nothing. I find this very strange, because I (though I don't speak for all atheists) don't believe this. I don't know where the universe came from, if it had a cause, and if so, what its cause was. But I don't believe it came from "nothing." Theists, on the other hand, very clearly DO believe the universe was made from nothing. Theists (at least, Christian, Muslim, and Jewish theists) assert with absolute certainty that a magical being created the entire universe out of thin air with a spoken incantation. This magical immortal superman literally poofed the universe into existence out of absolutely nothing. Now, as I said before, I don't know where the universe came from, and whatever the cause of the universe is, if we ever find it out, I think it may very well seem like a miracle. I recognize that our existence is a huge mystery and is very special and improbable. But I highly doubt that the explanation for it is a magical superman who created it all out of thin air. That sounds like a very childish solution invented by primitive people who wanted an explanation for something that none of us may ever understand.

 

[gnostic]

Yes, I agree, Hubert.

We still don’t know enough about the universe and about its origin.

I think a large part also come from their misunderstanding of the Big Bang cosmology.

The BB theory only explain the evolution of the observable universe as we know it. From how fundamental forces and matters form before the formation of the stars and galaxies.

It say very little about the universe before the initial expansion of the universe, leaving - if there was any “BEFORE” - as open question.

What BB don’t say, is the universe came into existence “from nothing”.

No matters how often I try to explain their flawed understanding (especially from creationists) of the Big Bang theory, they would repeat same mistakes over and over again.

 

[Quintessence]

All "theist" means is someone accepts some particular god-concept. That is not inherently related to beliefs (or lack thereof) about anything else. If we want to talk about "childish," let's start with an understanding of religion and theism that demonstrates a lack of much knowledge about either. No offense intended, but the OP's analysis is pretty rubbish.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Not all theists believe what you think they do. Science says matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be changed from on to the other. An atomic bomb changes a tiny amount of matter to energy. Maybe before there was a universe, there was energy. Some one or something was able to change that energy to matter. God? Maybe or maybe not? But there are theists who believe the universe was made from energy, not from nothing.

 

[Quintessence]

Not all theists believe what you think they do. Science says matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be changed from on to the other. An atomic bomb changes a tiny amount of matter to energy. Maybe before there was a universe, there was energy. Some one or something was able to change that energy to matter. God? Maybe or maybe not? But there are theists who believe the universe was made from energy, not from nothing.

There are so many creation mythologies that there are books upon books filled with them. It's part of why I have a hard time taking the OP at all seriously - it glazes over that, as well as the cultural context of these stories and the cultural values and meaning they conveyed to the people of the time. The function of stories and shared narratives is often bonding human communities together or conveying shared values, perhaps contemporary issues and trends.

The better observation is to ask why some "theists" tell the story that some "atheists" believe such and such. What role is that narrative serving in their lives, regardless of whether or not it is true? Because it isn't about the mythology being true or not, it's about how the story reinforces their worldview and values. When you start understanding how the stories people tell themselves reflect their values, people start making a great deal more sense. As does mythology just in general, whether it is religious or otherwise.

 

[Aupmanyav]

This is an unanswered question. You can only have guesses at present, whether in science or in religion. It will require a few generations to be sorted out. Please do not be in a hurry. Let things take there own time.

 

[rational experiences]

The Universe came INTO EXISTENCE by the status of nothing.

Meaning empty space....cold empty space. Pressure of that cold empty space as thinking of, compared to heated bodies in space as a known origin.

Heated bodies in space cooled in 2 conditions....due to empty space existing which is not actually a comparison cold state. Space just means what is not hot/heated or burning actually. Humans infer the comparisons.

Therefore if your psyche says....as radiating bodies are self consuming. They pre owned mass as mass...then that mass was removed as it was cooling, it was enabled to self consume until it was stopped.

So space, the nothing enabled creation to come into its existence by cooling to own form and physical presence. How it was taught as a relative conscious human self aware advice about the relativity of how physical form materialized due to spatial nothing increasing its space....of nothing.

 

[Jimmy]

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

Obviously, nothing can come from nothing. And space is an illusion, along with time and causation so none of those can be the source of universes, either, which makes them (universes) also belong to the realm of illusion and impermanence.

Mr. Farnsworth, theists don't believe in a superman, BTW, they believe in a god, god(s) or God.

When or rather if the scientists get around to investigating the subject of creation without believing that some matter or its conversion must be the source of everything, they will find an eternal Light is the source of everything, a Light which, as its speed slows, becomes matter (time, space, causation and universes). Food for thought is all.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

This is an unanswered question. You can only have guesses at present, whether in science or in religion. It will require a few generations to be sorted out. Please do not be in a hurry. Let things take there own time.

That's funny, Aupji. Only a few generations? You are pulling our legs, aren't you?!

 

[rational experiences]

Obviously, nothing can come from nothing. And space is an illusion, along with time and causation so none of those can be the source of universes, either, which makes them (universes) also belong to the realm of illusion and impermanence.

Mr. Farnsworth, theists don't believe in a superman, BTW, they believe in a god, god(s) or God.

When or rather if the scientists get around to investigating the subject of creation without believing that some matter or its conversion must be the source of everything, they will find an eternal Light is the source of everything, a Light which, as its speed slows, becomes matter (time, space, causation and universes). Food for thought is all.

Light as known to the human conscious psyche is gases above their own head burning, being cooled by clear gases not burning and flowing spiritually on the face of water in the great deep of space. The movement of the spirit gases that came out of One body he said...stone. STone which is stone because the light died and became spiritually entombed.

Light therefore does not own form....a no light gas mass owns form by pressure and formation O of its holding/being held frozen and unable to move.

Then science after it has made that statement, then make another contradictory statement....but because the Heavenly gas mass surrounding Earth is burning the spatial vacuum against heat is constantly pulling on it, so forces movement.

So then he changes his one of lots and lots of strings of thoughts into new laws and claims self correct for ignoring the first origins of his law inferences, because he WANTS science. What lying is about ignoring relativity and not believing in it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That's funny, Aupji. Only a few generations? You are pulling our legs, aren't you?!

Swamini, this is no leg-pulling. My grandpa did not even know the name of Quantum, I know. Similarly our future generations will know more things than what we know. I do not know as to how many generations will be required to answer that particular question, one, two or more. I think it would not take 100 generations, that is why I said 'a few'.

 

[LightofTruth]

Theists often make the claim that atheists believe in a universe that came into existence out of nothing. I find this very strange, because I (though I don't speak for all atheists) don't believe this. I don't know where the universe came from, if it had a cause, and if so, what its cause was. But I don't believe it came from "nothing." Theists, on the other hand, very clearly DO believe the universe was made from nothing. Theists (at least, Christian, Muslim, and Jewish theists) assert with absolute certainty that a magical being created the entire universe out of thin air with a spoken incantation. This magical immortal superman literally poofed the universe into existence out of absolutely nothing. Now, as I said before, I don't know where the universe came from, and whatever the cause of the universe is, if we ever find it out, I think it may very well seem like a miracle. I recognize that our existence is a huge mystery and is very special and improbable. But I highly doubt that the explanation for it is a magical superman who created it all out of thin air. That sounds like a very childish solution invented by primitive people who wanted an explanation for something that none of us may ever understand.

I don't think something comes from nothing. And I don't think the Bible teaches us that God created the heavens and the earth from nothing.
Did God create man from nothing? No, he created him from the earth.
So, when it is said that God created the heavens and earth, it means that he created them from something that existed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nothing is only determined by what we can observe and detect. It's a very linear perception. I'm pretty sure there are things out there that lay well beyond our capabilities to detect.

It's why I think we live in a continuum. Multi dimensioned and enternal.

 

[Native]

But I highly doubt that the explanation for it is a magical superman who created it all out of thin air. That sounds like a very childish solution invented by primitive people who wanted an explanation for something that none of us may ever understand.

I don´t know your exact definition of "primitive" but our ancestors were certainly not primitive in the worst of definitions, just read of the Egyptian Creation Myths here where the term "eternal" appears as elementary descriptions of their world perspective. There is NO "Big Bang" at all in their descriptions of the ancient known part of the Universe, the Milky Way galaxy.

In fact, their descriptions really confirms a kind of Steady State Universe, the one model before the strange and highly speculative Big Bang model nonsense.

A "childish solution" to this problem of not understanding the ancient ancestors could be that modern humans have forgotten the natural and spiritual insights of nature ON and ABOVE the Earth and take the old knowledge as mumbo jumbo and "mythical hearsayings".

In this sense, modern human beings are really primitive in the worst of definitions.

 

[ChristineM]

Theists often make the claim that atheists believe in a universe that came into existence out of nothing. I find this very strange, because I (though I don't speak for all atheists) don't believe this. I don't know where the universe came from, if it had a cause, and if so, what its cause was. But I don't believe it came from "nothing." Theists, on the other hand, very clearly DO believe the universe was made from nothing. Theists (at least, Christian, Muslim, and Jewish theists) assert with absolute certainty that a magical being created the entire universe out of thin air with a spoken incantation. This magical immortal superman literally poofed the universe into existence out of absolutely nothing. Now, as I said before, I don't know where the universe came from, and whatever the cause of the universe is, if we ever find it out, I think it may very well seem like a miracle. I recognize that our existence is a huge mystery and is very special and improbable. But I highly doubt that the explanation for it is a magical superman who created it all out of thin air. That sounds like a very childish solution invented by primitive people who wanted an explanation for something that none of us may ever understand.

There are many hypothesis of how the universe began, i know of 28. Of all the different hypothesis at least 2 suggest our universe came from nothing or virtual nothing with fairly detailed explanations of how.

The thing is, the really big thing is that they are all hypothesis, no one actually knows how our universe began.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't think 'nothing' is a state that exists or existed. Whenever there was anything, their was the universe. if it is finite into the past, so was time. Still no nothing.

 

[LightofTruth]

I don't think 'nothing' is a state that exists or existed. Whenever there was anything, their was the universe. if it is finite into the past, so was time. Still no nothing.

You couldn't travel back to a time when nothing existed because if there was a time when nothing existed you wouldn't exist to make the trip.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

Light as known to the human conscious psyche.... and
Then science after it has made that statement, then make another contradictory statement...

Hello, rational experiences
"Light... as known to the human conscious psyche" is NOT the Light of which I speak. God's Light is not perceived by the human psyche, mind, intellect, ego, senses, etc. The light you speak of is created by the Light I speak of. I should have been clearer in my original post, sorry.

And yes, I totally agree it's a fact that scientists change their minds about things all the time. God is unchanging, infinite and eternal, is, was and will be. Scientists might attempt to understand and measure the unchanging but (so far) the only tools they have to do it with (mind, intellect, senses, etc.) are themselves changing all the time. How can something or someone finite (born to die, you might say), i.e., something which changes second by second, comprehend the Unchanging? It can't.

 

[`mud]

" out of thin air", there wasn't even that, they propose !
And `He` didn't have any `time`, shazam !!
And....there wasn't any `now` or yesterday !!
Mankind will never see the edge of the Cosmos !