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A warning and a call to Baha’is from Baha’u’llah’s Universal House of Justice

spirit_of_dawn

Active Member

What has this got to do with anything? That's at most a hate crime by an ordinary citizen if other motives were not involved.

Reading back through the Baha'i responses in this thread it seems that since Baha'is can't respond to allegations using normal reasonable arguments, they are playing the Iran/Muslim phobia card to divert attention from the main issue.
 
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spirit_of_dawn

Active Member
Why does this:
I am happy that many work for peace and unity and we will work with them all. After all we are but one human race, we are all the family of man.

Remind me of this:
are-y-all-with-the-cult-sumashiras-melee-its-not-2739150.png
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Yes, brahmins are among the higher castes. But what respect an individual gets depends solely on that individual.

Caste, actually brings disadvantage to the people of higher castes. We have a strong affirmative action program, according to which 50% of opportunities are reserved for lower castes and tribes (23%) and middle castes and tribes (27%). This is according to their percentage in Indian population and mandated in the Indian Constitution.

So, where an A+ would not suffice for person from a higher caste, people from lower or middle caste with C will get admission to a professional college or a job. People from higher castes are not allowed to compete for the reserved seats. The selection committees also have selectors in the same proportion. Even the law-makers (National and State ministries, Members of Indian parliament, State legislatures, City Councils, Village Councils) have the same proportion. In a democracy with universal franchise, one cannot anger any section of the society.

Very informative post........ thankyou.

For better or worse, I do wish that the UK would be doing more to balance out opportunities for all in education, careers, jobs, etc. But we're getting there slowly.

Thankyou again for that info....
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Thanks for the chance.

I am happy that many work for peace and unity and we will work with them all. After all we are but one human race, we are all the family of man.

Regards Tony

OK......... let's all try to do that, but Bahai ideas about unity mostly mean 'be like us, be Bahai'. I cannot see any flexibility from Bahai for unity with other religions, and I cannot see Bahai ever having anything to do with political factions, parties or movements......... in fact I wonder how unity with Bahai could be accomplished from outside the Bahai religion.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
OK......... let's all try to do that, but Bahai ideas about unity mostly mean 'be like us, be Bahai'. I cannot see any flexibility from Bahai for unity with other religions, and I cannot see Bahai ever having anything to do with political factions, parties or movements......... in fact I wonder how unity with Bahai could be accomplished from outside the Bahai religion.

Thats great, you know you have a friend in peace.

I think from memory the way that will happen has been conveyed to you a few times before.

The push for the Lesser Peace will be from outside the Baha'i Faith, it will be based on the instructions given by Baha'u'llah as to how to obtain the lesser peace. It will most likely come about because of an event that will compel us to work in unity.

The signs that this will begin, are first and foremost that the world will be indicating that God is Dead, the hope that religion can still help help us, will have diminished.

As the Baha'i Faith emerges from obscurity, the multitude that see they hold power in their thoughts and their ways will start throwing all they can at the Baha'i to try to surpress its influence. The churches will be preaching this from the pulpits. I see this is just beginning.

As the world tries to do away with religion, thinking this will help rid mankind of its problems, events will transpire that cause much turmiol and destruction, this will be so overwhealming that the governments will get together to determine what has happened..

It is then they will realise it is the lack of Faith that has caused the issues and will then examine the Faiths of the world for the solution. It is then that the Baha'i Faith will be recognised.

We have turbulent times ahead. To think that any one of us can alter this path is ludicrous, the only way change can now happen, is in a Unity of Mind, a unity of purpose in our diversity.

If all people of all Faiths could just consider that our unity is based on a common source, then we may divert what is to come, unfortunately I do not see that change unfolding on the scale required.

That is my honest opinion.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
OK......... let's all try to do that, but Bahai ideas about unity mostly mean 'be like us, be Bahai'. I cannot see any flexibility from Bahai for unity with other religions, and I cannot see Bahai ever having anything to do with political factions, parties or movements......... in fact I wonder how unity with Bahai could be accomplished from outside the Bahai religion.

A very daunting task indeed, but I know one way. We could all become Baha'i.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Thanks for the chance.

I am happy that many work for peace and unity and we will work with them all. After all we are but one human race, we are all the family of man.
It is not the Baha'is who are not willing to work with others. Clearly, it is them who are not willing to work with us. It is unjust to misrepresent Baha'is on a public forum as some do here, so I felt the need to clarify the Baha'i position, which is represented by Baha'u'llah.

“Through each and every one of the verses which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed, the doors of love and unity have been unlocked and flung open to the face of men. We have erewhile declared—and Our Word is the truth—: “Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished. From the heaven of God’s Will, and for the purpose of ennobling the world of being and of elevating the minds and souls of men, hath been sent down that which is the most effective instrument for the education of the whole human race.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 95
I do not see any Baha'is excluding those of other religions, or excluding anyone, so why are we accused of being exclusive? o_O
Just because we have "our own religion" that does not mean we are exclusive. This is a distortion of Baha'i beliefs and practices. All religions have their own beliefs and practices, and it would be more accurate to say that they are exclusive because that is what most religions teach, that they are the only true religion.

I guess it is just more fun to pick on the Baha'is because we are the new religion on the block. ;)
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
A very daunting task indeed, but I know one way. We could all become Baha'i.

First one must consider that Baha'u'llah wants no one to accept Him, but by their own free will.

Thus to do it for any reason but for Love, will not work and it would be much better for all if they did not.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
We get offered a choice. The document 'One Common Faith' is a choice. The Message of Baha'u'llah is a choice.

It is to the extent we choose to understand what is offered, that can become the pivot of our commitment to that change.

Regards Tony
Can spell out the main points in the document in a few sentences?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Because you either have a complete distortion of what the Bahai Faith is all about or you just don't like the Bahai Faith and are deliberately misrepresenting it. I don't pretend to know which one it is. ;)

Is there any degree of differing opinions that you would consider? Or is any differing opinion at all considered anti-Bahai?
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Is there any degree of differing opinions that you would consider? Or is any differing opinion at all considered anti-Bahai?

I think the Forum rules have set that level have they not?

I am happy for all to post what they wish, my moderation is to inform them when they have it wrong, or not reply at all.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Is there any degree of differing opinions that you would consider? Or is any differing opinion at all considered anti-Bahai?
I am open to any and all manner of differing opinions about the Baha'i Faith. Where I step in is when people misrepresent what the Baha'i Faith teaches, which is according to what Baha'u'llah wrote.

Obviously, if people are speaking out against what Baha'u'llah wrote, they are anti-Baha'i. But that is not what anti-Baha'i people normally do. Instead they speak out against a straw man they have created. That is dishonest and I abhor dishonesty.
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Why does this:


Remind me of this:
are-y-all-with-the-cult-sumashiras-melee-its-not-2739150.png

You can call the Baha’is a cult as others call Muslims terrorists. Its just petty name calling though.

So other than misrepresenting and slandering a religion you clearly know little about, what's your point and how exactly does it relate to the OP?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Because of the advocacy and pressure of many countries and the United Nations its become difficult for the Iranian government to execute its citizens because they are Baha'is. Instead they harrass the Baha'is by imprisoning them for long periods of time for no good reason.

Bahá'í 7 - Wikipedia
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Can spell out the main points in the document in a few sentences?

For me, one common faith reframes the message of Bahá’u’lláh using the language and context of the 21st century. Baha'is are asked to cultivate both within themselves and in the social spaces around them a much more profound sense of the interconnectedness of humanities religious experience.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I am open to any and all manner of differing opinions about the Bahai Faith. Where I step in is when people misrepresent what the Bahai Faith teaches, which is according to what Baha'u'llah wrote.
That, most certainly, has not been my experience on these forums. On the wiki page, 'Criticism of the Baha'i Faith', you told me you could explain why they were all false accusations. Can you give me any specific examples of where you have doubts.

Maybe the discrepancy between country censuses, and Baha'i claims on population?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
That, most certainly, has not been my experience on these forums. On the wiki page, 'Criticism of the Baha'i Faith', you told me you could explain why they were all false accusations. Can you give me any specific examples of where you have doubts.

Maybe the discrepancy between country censuses, and Baha'i claims on population?
I am going to go through this website and address all the points. Here is the first installment.

(Quotes from Criticism of the Bahá'í Faith)

“A core teaching of the Bahá'í Faith is the unity of all the world's religions; They believe that the teachings of all the major religions are components of a single plan which is directed by the same God, yet that religion is cyclical in nature and becomes corrupted with time.[1] The religions that the Bahá'í Faith claims to be congruent appear to have contradictory teachings. For instance, their attitude toward the Abrahamic prophets (Moses, Jesus, Muhammad) and the way in which followers partake in worship vary significantly among the major religions, and social laws and attitudes vary between traditions.”

The Baha’i Faith does not claim that all religions are the same. We claim they the religions as they were originally revealed are different because each new Messenger of God has a new message and new social teachings and laws, which are different in every age, to meet the needs of the times. The religions as they were originally revealed before they were corrupted by human hands did not contradict one another. Using this example they gave, the reason the attitudes towards Abrahamic prophets differs among the different Abrahamic religions is because what was revealed by those Prophets differed according to the understanding and needs of the peoples of that age.

For example, in the days of Moses, it was sufficient for believers to believe that Moses was a Prophet, a man who heard from God but who was not infallible, but when Jesus came He was speaking to a different group of people and they needed to understand that He was speaking as God, having the same authority as God. Unfortunately, what Jesus said was misconstrued by the Christian Church so they ended up believing that Jesus was God incarnate. But Jesus denied being God on many occasions and said that He was a Prophet and a Mediator between God and man, which is the same thing that Baha’u’llah says about Himself.

Then Muhammad came and claimed to be one among many Messengers of God, which is close to what Baha’u’llah said, which makes sense because this was centuries after Jesus and humanity had progressed so humanity was now ready for a new concept that was to incorporate all the Messengers of the past. But I do not think Muhammad claimed to be infallible (although I am not sure of that, this is what a Muslim told me).

But now Baha’u’llah comes and claims to be infallible... Why? I think the reason is that we are now able and need to understand that a Messenger of God is also a Manifestation of God so in a sense He is more than just a Messenger; He is God, just not the full Essence of God in the flesh, as Christians believe about Jesus. We need to understand that Baha’u’llah was infallible (as were all the Manifestations of God who preceded Him) because of how important it is to follow His teachings and laws, since so much of the future of humanity hinges on His infallibility.

“The principle of universalism itself has many opponents, such as Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, who claims that it not only demeans local and national traditions but also encourages widespread religious supremacy.”

I have heard this criticism before. The Baha’i Faith does not demean the Jewish traditions; we just believe they have been superseded by newer religious traditions that are more suitable for this age in history. Do you really think that the laws in the Old Testament are appropriate for the modern age, death for homosexuals? I don’t.

Logically speaking, if God sent a new Messenger with a new message and said it supersedes the older religions, that is what God did... If not, we can all take out toys and go home. None of this is about religious supremacy. It is just about what God did or did not do.

However, the fact remains that both Jews and Christians believe they are the chosen people of God, so are they not the pot calling the Baha’i kettle black? Jews believe that when the Messiah comes they will be recognized as the “chosen ones” and they will regain the standing they lost when Jesus came. The Torah will be declared the official Book of God for everyone, and everyone will follow the Torah forever. I know this because I have had extended conversations with Jews on another forum. Talk about arrogant.

Of course they will never recognize Baha’u’llah because He has His own Writings, not the Torah. From a Baha’i point of view, the Jews misinterpreted their scriptures just like Christians did. They both believe that their scriptures are the only scriptures and their religion is the only religion for all eternity. But how could they both be right, given they disagree about whether Jesus was even sent by God? This is too much of a mess to clean up without a new religion being revealed, and that is one reason Baha’u’llah came.

“Sacks disputes the principle of universalism on the grounds that there may not be just one truth about the essentials of the human condition.[2] Bahá'í authors have tried to refute the criticism by claiming to promote unity in diversity.[3]

How can there be more than one truth about the essentials of the human condition? There can be different facets of the truth, different ways of looking at the truth, and there can be more than truth about why God created man. Unity in diversity means there is more than one truth and more than one way of looking at the same truth, but these truths cannot contradict each other and still be right because that is illogical.

That is enough for now. I do not want to overwhelm you with a longer post. I will continue to go through this website and respond to all the points made.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
...... It is unjust to misrepresent Baha'is on a public forum as some do here,.........
Some of us see misrepresentation from some Bahai posts.
And we show our facts and sources!

Baha'i position, which is represented by Baha'u'llah.
“Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.” Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.
Bahai actions today speak louder than Bahauallah's words 150 years ago.

I do not see any Baha'is excluding those of other religions, or excluding anyone, so why are we accused of being exclusive? o_O
Please tell us all how you are so inclusive!

All religions have their own beliefs and practices, and it would be more accurate to say that they are exclusive because that is what most religions teach, that they are the only true religion.
Are you honestly trying to tell us that in a Bahai World members of other religions could sit in your local, national and universal houses of justice and help govern the world?
Please........... stop telling us all how inclusive Bahai is!

I guess it is just more fun to pick on the Baha'is because we are the new religion on the block. ;)
Your 180 odd years old and some Bahai posts here keep on telling us stuff which we can show is incorrect and misinformative. :shrug:
 
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