A World without Rules.

[Bird123]

Ah, so you believe that the universe in itself works in a moral way, i.e. that karma (in its cliche meaning) exists.
It might be true statistically, and even there I'd doubt it, but what you describe happens certainly not in every single case like that.
Agreed, intelligence enables one to decide what seems best to lead one to one's goals. But this best way is not necessarily the honest one in every single situation.

The universe does not work in a moral way. The universe works in a Mathematical Way. You might think that the honest way is not the best way, however in the long run it will be.

As I see things.Karma to me implies punishment. Life has never ever been about punishment. It's about education. Our actions return to teach us what our actions really mean. Further, having multiple lifetimes changes the dynamics of learning. Every lesson will not happen in one individual lifetime. That does not mean the lesson will not be lived. Perhaps, life is geared toward the maximum learning for the parameters set in the life.

From an unknowing bystander, it might appear someone is getting away with murder, however the correction to the lack of the murderer's intelligence must happen in time. One will never be allowed to be ignorant forever.

 

[Bird123]

There are a few good things in the, but a lot of very nasty things too most of which are attributed to the god character!

It is not God's character that is at fault. God is at a much higher level. AS I see it few people or religions really understand God at all. People project who they are through their choices and actions. God is their excuse for allowing themselves to bring their problems to the surface so they can be dealt with.

Have you noticed that when these types of problems come to the surface that there are always others around to point the way to another view. It's called learning through interaction. This is part of the journey to discover the Real answers. Though conflict is almost always unsettling, it can lead to Resolution, knowledge, and greater intelligence.

 

[Liu]

The universe does not work in a moral way. The universe works in a Mathematical Way. You might think that the honest way is not the best way, however in the long run it will be.

Where would you know this from?
I'm all about understanding life as a path of learning. But you seem to claim that you already know what it'll be that we will learn. Who knows whether the lesson will not ultimately lead to a different conclusion?
And I'm not saying that the honest way is never the best way, but that it depends on the situation, and that in many situations one can't even tell what would be better.

From an unknowing bystander, it might appear someone is getting away with murder, however the correction to the lack of the murderer's intelligence must happen in time. One will never be allowed to be ignorant forever.

But thereby you are saying that it would be less intelligent in general to murder someone.
In our society it is in most cases not recommendable simply because of the huge risk of punishment, and also because many people would get psychological problems from doing it. But I don't see how the act in itself, regardless of the circumstances, would be a sign of one's ignorance if you are not saying that there is some form of objective morality in the universe. On the contrary, I have even encountered the arguement that if life is about learning, then one should strife to get as much experiences as possible, including the experience of murdering someone. Maybe that experience then will lead one to learn not to do that again, but who knows? I haven't tried.
(Amendment for not getting my post deleted: I am not advocating criminal activities, this is a mere thought experiment.)

 

[PilgrimOfLight]

Everybody wants to rule the world is mankind's greatest problem as I see it. Still, there will reach a point when wisdom will demonstrate that freedom of views and actions create advantages. That already can be seen in the economies of the world. Those with the most freedoms are creating the most wealth.

All the wisdom in the world isn't going to sustain your body. You need food and water and all the other life necessities.
While ever that need exists, every living creature on this planet will continue to compete for those resources. What is wealth? You can not eat it or drink it. It is nothing but a control mechanism put in place by those who understand the realism of the situation we are all in and who have secured the resources to control others.

You do not understand. As I see it, Death is an important part of God's system. Death is no more than a Change. If one does not change, one, in time, will limit their capabilities.

Death is indeed a change, but we are not meant to meet our "deaths" as early as 70-100 years. We are but infants still. Were you to live for 1000 years you would know and understand a great deal. Indeed, if one were to believe that a god put this system in place, then it would make sense in fact that humans would live indefinitely until they themselves had acquired so much knowledge, experience and maturity that they became naturally ready to move on to the next stage of their evolution completely voluntarily. Currently we are trapped. Mankind has been enslaved, our life spans cruelly limited to virtual childhood (evolutionarily speaking).

The more one acquires knowledge; the faster one's capability to acquire that knowledge grows. Mankind will learn faster. Things will get better faster than in the past.

Yes but sadly those that rule, with all the power and wealth are the ones who will have the knowledge. They are the ones controlling the scientists, the ones doing the research, the ones making advances. That simply gives them more control, more weaponry, more surveillance more power. All it does is ensure that mankind is utterly and hopelessly enslaved and controlled.

The only things that will change that situation now are:

1. Some kind of more advanced being intervenes and resets the balance, rescues mankind

2. A planetary cataclysmic event occurs which destroys just about everything and sets mankind back to the dark ages

3. Someone makes the Philosopher's Stone and releases it into society such that no-one needs to work anymore to buy food and drink. There would be worldwide collapse as all major finance/profit companies would fail. The banking systems would collapse, pharmaceutical companies would collapse (as we would all be perfectly healthy), utilities would collapse and all industry would grind to a halt. Live would be very different. We would HAVE to re-evaluate human life. If we worked it would only be for the greater benefit of each other and would be voluntary. We would have no more life distractions like TV and cinema and video games. We would have to face life head on.

 

[Bird123]

Where would you know this from?
I'm all about understanding life as a path of learning. But you seem to claim that you already know what it'll be that we will learn. Who knows whether the lesson will not ultimately lead to a different conclusion?
And I'm not saying that the honest way is never the best way, but that it depends on the situation, and that in many situations one can't even tell what would be better.


But thereby you are saying that it would be less intelligent in general to murder someone.
In our society it is in most cases not recommendable simply because of the huge risk of punishment, and also because many people would get psychological problems from doing it. But I don't see how the act in itself, regardless of the circumstances, would be a sign of one's ignorance if you are not saying that there is some form of objective morality in the universe. On the contrary, I have even encountered the arguement that if life is about learning, then one should strife to get as much experiences as possible, including the experience of murdering someone. Maybe that experience then will lead one to learn not to do that again, but who knows? I haven't tried.
(Amendment for not getting my post deleted: I am not advocating criminal activities, this is a mere thought experiment.)

Perhaps sometime in a past life everyone will choose murder to discover what it really is. Later, if the one you loved the most were murdered, you would learn quickly murder is not an act that is intelligent to make. Thereby our actions and choices determine our lessons either in this life or a future life. A multilevel classroom has students at all different levels of understanding in a variety of areas.

 

[Bird123]

All the wisdom in the world isn't going to sustain your body. You need food and water and all the other life necessities.
While ever that need exists, every living creature on this planet will continue to compete for those resources. What is wealth? You can not eat it or drink it. It is nothing but a control mechanism put in place by those who understand the realism of the situation we are all in and who have secured the resources to control others.



Death is indeed a change, but we are not meant to meet our "deaths" as early as 70-100 years. We are but infants still. Were you to live for 1000 years you would know and understand a great deal. Indeed, if one were to believe that a god put this system in place, then it would make sense in fact that humans would live indefinitely until they themselves had acquired so much knowledge, experience and maturity that they became naturally ready to move on to the next stage of their evolution completely voluntarily. Currently we are trapped. Mankind has been enslaved, our life spans cruelly limited to virtual childhood (evolutionarily speaking).



Yes but sadly those that rule, with all the power and wealth are the ones who will have the knowledge. They are the ones controlling the scientists, the ones doing the research, the ones making advances. That simply gives them more control, more weaponry, more surveillance more power. All it does is ensure that mankind is utterly and hopelessly enslaved and controlled.

The only things that will change that situation now are:

1. Some kind of more advanced being intervenes and resets the balance, rescues mankind

2. A planetary cataclysmic event occurs which destroys just about everything and sets mankind back to the dark ages

3. Someone makes the Philosopher's Stone and releases it into society such that no-one needs to work anymore to buy food and drink. There would be worldwide collapse as all major finance/profit companies would fail. The banking systems would collapse, pharmaceutical companies would collapse (as we would all be perfectly healthy), utilities would collapse and all industry would grind to a halt. Live would be very different. We would HAVE to re-evaluate human life. If we worked it would only be for the greater benefit of each other and would be voluntary. We would have no more life distractions like TV and cinema and video games. We would have to face life head on.

You do not understand.

First, you have to discover who you really are. I am a Spiritual being in my true nature. I have direct experience to this. This physical body is no more than my transportation in this physical world. My physical body has physical needs, however as I see it, I am Eternal.

This physical world supplies so much sensory input that it's easy to think the physical is all there is. My suggestion: Go to a quiet dark room that has no distractions. Close your eyes, get relaxed and comfortable, then focus inward. Say to yourself: It's Me!.........Now, who are you really??

Yes, death is no more than a Change. There are good reasons for death. Let me explain how I see it. Adversity breeds invention. When times are good, we all just sit back and enjoy the ride. When adversity hits, we have to Think, Study, Analyze, Plan, and work at resolution in order to solve the problem. This is a catalyst toward learning and discovery. On the other hand, people take adversity personally. At some point learning will become impossible. This is the reason for death.

As I see it after death we all go to God to experience God's Unconditional Love that heals all hurt. We will discover it has never ever been about punishment. It is about education. As I see it, when we experience God we will see where we are and where we need to be. We will judge ourselves. Then at some point we must go back to school and born into another physical life to learn and discover more.

AS I see it, this physical universe only exists for our lessons. It's time based causal nature is perfect for learning.

Now, one can look at the world and focus on those learning lessons you already understand. One can call the world evil and bad, however everyone is learning some lesson others already understand. That's how a multilevel classroom works. Is this really a reason to Hate? I think not!

One can look around and feel helpless to change the world and people, however, as I see it, we all can do something to change the world, help people learn and grow, or at least point them in the right direction. As I see it, it doesn't matter what everyone else does, it's what you choose to do that counts.

Is it time to sit back and just complain at the way the world is or are there other actions one can take. Personally, I have changed many many people. I move a grain of sand at a time. In time, people change but they think it was all their idea. This is great because glory is never something I want. If they do not change due to my efforts, Great. I might have moved them far enough that the next person they interact in life will finish the job.

As I see it, interaction along with the great diversity of views and understanding is the fix for this world. I can't see it coming from some miracle and someone saving us from it all. As I see it. We are all the Fix.

 

[PilgrimOfLight]

You do not understand.

First, you have to discover who you really are. I am a Spiritual being in my true nature. I have direct experience to this. This physical body is no more than my transportation in this physical world. My physical body has physical needs, however as I see it, I am Eternal.

I am in total agreement. This is life lesson 101. A simple rational look at the body and how it works and the knowledge that "I" am not controlling all of its functions should be enough to tell anyone that "I" am not my body.
That which is truly us is eternal, has always been here, will always be here. Temet Nosce.

This physical world supplies so much sensory input that it's easy to think the physical is all there is. My suggestion: Go to a quiet dark room that has no distractions. Close your eyes, get relaxed and comfortable, then focus inward. Say to yourself: It's Me!.........Now, who are you really??

Not necessary. I realise I am more than my physical body.

Nevertheless, the rules are such that the body is the conduit into this world and without it we are out of the game so to speak. I do not believe the intention of this life situation was for humans to inhabit their bodies for such a relatively tiny amount of time. Something is inherently wrong there. The game has been subverted, its parameters have been twisted and doctored by some other force. We are so very far from the "Garden of Eden". The life where there are no needs, where there is harmony and humans have to simply exist and learn and experience. However that situation COULD be restored, but it requires that humans are once more given access to the Elixir Of Life, the Philosopher's Stone. It is a thing of Nature and it is how we were supposed to live. It is how Adam and Eve in the story lived, it is how Noah in that story lived, it is how Jesus in his story operated.

Yes, death is no more than a Change. There are good reasons for death. Let me explain how I see it. Adversity breeds invention. When times are good, we all just sit back and enjoy the ride. When adversity hits, we have to Think, Study, Analyze, Plan, and work at resolution in order to solve the problem. This is a catalyst toward learning and discovery. On the other hand, people take adversity personally. At some point learning will become impossible. This is the reason for death.

This is flawed thinking. If you follow the argument through it suggests that you are learning in preparation for a world/universe in which all that learning will come in handy, a world that will be beset with problems and difficulties to overcome. For someone who believes in God that does not gel with the concept of Heaven does it. What is gained by putting humans through suffering and hardship if their ultimate destination is a place of eternal peace, love and harmony ? Think it through.

The truth is that the game parameters have been changed and doctored. Things are not as they should be.
Whilst that which is truly us is immortal (we are all part of the universal oneness) the problem is that we are caught in a looping cycle. We are born, have a tiny life span, die, and go around the loop again and again. We have no memory of past lives, past iterations, past actions. We are like birds kept in a cage unable to break free and fly. We have nowhere near the life span needed to learn anything significant. We will never see civilisations come and go, we will never witness the full cycles that the planet goes through.

We are caged. Enslaved. The only hope is that an outside force helps us or that one or more of us find or create the Elixir Of Life. Until then you are caught in the loop. You will learn the same things over and over in each life but never live long enough to really progress. With each iteration the world you are born into becomes more technologically advanced and your enslavement is all the more complete and controlled.

I understand who and what I am. I am metaphorically speaking aware of "The Matrix" in which I am trapped.

I simply have no way to break out of it.

Like a lion sitting in a UK zoo. It should not be there. It's life is completely hemmed in, controlled, un-natural.
It has no solution, no way out. The lion can kill itself. Otherwise its only hope is that some external force (a human or force of Nature) will set it free from that caged existence.

Religions are a part of the system of control that enslave us. We need to be brutally honest with ourselves, put aside fear and guilt and see the cage and control systems for what they are and reject them. Even so that won't set us free. We still need to rid ourselves of the wants and needs that lead to our enslavement and for that we need the Philosopher's Stone.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Sure, we are not there yet. Society must protect themselves from the few making really bad choices. Laws, rules and controls are put in place by mankind to protect society as a whole. On the other hand, after living enough lessons, one discovers the best choices themselves. Choosing what is evil or not will have no meaning in the end. As one grows wiser, one will walk toward the best end simply to acquire the best results.

AS I see it, if we look at the system rather than at any one given point in time, we can see where it is all heading.

Do you believe in reincarnation or something? We already have a culmination of knowledge that each generation borrows on, but I don't see everyone just suddenly no longer making stupid decisions any time soon. Each generation has to make their own mistakes... there are certain things that just don't seem to transfer. Hence the reason I asked about your belief in reincarnation. Your posts seem to hint at we, as individuals, gathering some culmination of multiple lifetimes of knowledge.

 

[Bird123]

I am in total agreement. This is life lesson 101. A simple rational look at the body and how it works and the knowledge that "I" am not controlling all of its functions should be enough to tell anyone that "I" am not my body.
That which is truly us is eternal, has always been here, will always be here. Temet Nosce.



Not necessary. I realise I am more than my physical body.

Nevertheless, the rules are such that the body is the conduit into this world and without it we are out of the game so to speak. I do not believe the intention of this life situation was for humans to inhabit their bodies for such a relatively tiny amount of time. Something is inherently wrong there. The game has been subverted, its parameters have been twisted and doctored by some other force. We are so very far from the "Garden of Eden". The life where there are no needs, where there is harmony and humans have to simply exist and learn and experience. However that situation COULD be restored, but it requires that humans are once more given access to the Elixir Of Life, the Philosopher's Stone. It is a thing of Nature and it is how we were supposed to live. It is how Adam and Eve in the story lived, it is how Noah in that story lived, it is how Jesus in his story operated.



This is flawed thinking. If you follow the argument through it suggests that you are learning in preparation for a world/universe in which all that learning will come in handy, a world that will be beset with problems and difficulties to overcome. For someone who believes in God that does not gel with the concept of Heaven does it. What is gained by putting humans through suffering and hardship if their ultimate destination is a place of eternal peace, love and harmony ? Think it through.

The truth is that the game parameters have been changed and doctored. Things are not as they should be.
Whilst that which is truly us is immortal (we are all part of the universal oneness) the problem is that we are caught in a looping cycle. We are born, have a tiny life span, die, and go around the loop again and again. We have no memory of past lives, past iterations, past actions. We are like birds kept in a cage unable to break free and fly. We have nowhere near the life span needed to learn anything significant. We will never see civilisations come and go, we will never witness the full cycles that the planet goes through.

We are caged. Enslaved. The only hope is that an outside force helps us or that one or more of us find or create the Elixir Of Life. Until then you are caught in the loop. You will learn the same things over and over in each life but never live long enough to really progress. With each iteration the world you are born into becomes more technologically advanced and your enslavement is all the more complete and controlled.

I understand who and what I am. I am metaphorically speaking aware of "The Matrix" in which I am trapped.

I simply have no way to break out of it.

Like a lion sitting in a UK zoo. It should not be there. It's life is completely hemmed in, controlled, un-natural.
It has no solution, no way out. The lion can kill itself. Otherwise its only hope is that some external force (a human or force of Nature) will set it free from that caged existence.

Religions are a part of the system of control that enslave us. We need to be brutally honest with ourselves, put aside fear and guilt and see the cage and control systems for what they are and reject them. Even so that won't set us free. We still need to rid ourselves of the wants and needs that lead to our enslavement and for that we need the Philosopher's Stone.

As I see it, religious stories have corrupted your view. Adam and Eve is just a Story. It never happened.

As for a Heaven, do you really think all those people could get along in Heaven. Heaven won't be possible until all the lessons are learned when one understands that the answer is Unconditional Love.

The focus is always on the current lessons. That is why the immediate memory of all the past lives is not there. On the other hand, who we are and what we have learned is with us. It will come together later for understanding.

 

[Bird123]

Do you believe in reincarnation or something? We already have a culmination of knowledge that each generation borrows on, but I don't see everyone just suddenly no longer making stupid decisions any time soon. Each generation has to make their own mistakes... there are certain things that just don't seem to transfer. Hence the reason I asked about your belief in reincarnation. Your posts seem to hint at we, as individuals, gathering some culmination of multiple lifetimes of knowledge.

Yes, it will take many lifetimes to learn it all through Living our Lessons. You are right. Each person must learn it all for themselves.

 

[PilgrimOfLight]

As I see it, religious stories have corrupted your view. Adam and Eve is just a Story. It never happened.

Of course it's a story !

The Bible is a collection of stories and in amongst them, embedded cryptically and/or encoded are secrets including that of the Philosopher's Stone. Genesis is all about the Stone, it describes the process by which it is made but not in enough detail for the ordinary person to understand. In the book of Genesis alone, there can be found encoded about 15 of the key terms that appear in the "First Key" of Basilius Valentinus's Twelve Keys, another work that describes the Philosopher's Stone. It is no co-incidence.

As for a Heaven, do you really think all those people could get along in Heaven. Heaven won't be possible until all the lessons are learned when one understands that the answer is Unconditional Love.

Again you confuse the allegorical terminology with reality which is a mistake.

In Genesis the term "Heavens" refers to the area at the top of the alchemists flask in which the Stone is being created. The salt in the bottom of the flask is referred to as the "Earth".

A gentle heat is applied to the flask which causes a vapour/mist to rise up. It is sometimes referred to as the "Spirit".
It condenses at the top and falls back down like rain or dew drops.

All described in Genesis thus:

1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2. And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Same thing is again described here:

Genesis 2:4-7:

This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.

The Bible is not meant to be read literally. It is allegorical. It is written that way to conceal great secrets. Many other works are exactly the same.

That you don't realise or understand this and take the terms literally is something to ponder on and learn.

Who is God?

God is you, and me. I am God and God is me. We are one and the same, all parts of the universal oneness. There is no separate being, no white bearded man with a son, there is only the one true source of life energy and it pervades everything. It is fragmented in unlimited forms across the universe. We are fragments but held in the human form. We should be able to exist and persist in this form for a very long time, but unfortunately we are prevented from doing so. Our access to the quantities of life energy we need has been cut off. That needs to be rectified for us to progress and escape the prison we are in.

 

[Bird123]

Of course it's a story !

The Bible is a collection of stories and in amongst them, embedded cryptically and/or encoded are secrets including that of the Philosopher's Stone. Genesis is all about the Stone, it describes the process by which it is made but not in enough detail for the ordinary person to understand. In the book of Genesis alone, there can be found encoded about 15 of the key terms that appear in the "First Key" of Basilius Valentinus's Twelve Keys, another work that describes the Philosopher's Stone. It is no co-incidence.



Again you confuse the allegorical terminology with reality which is a mistake.

In Genesis the term "Heavens" refers to the area at the top of the alchemists flask in which the Stone is being created. The salt in the bottom of the flask is referred to as the "Earth".

A gentle heat is applied to the flask which causes a vapour/mist to rise up. It is sometimes referred to as the "Spirit".
It condenses at the top and falls back down like rain or dew drops.

All described in Genesis thus:

1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2. And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Same thing is again described here:

Genesis 2:4-7:

This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.

The Bible is not meant to be read literally. It is allegorical. It is written that way to conceal great secrets. Many other works are exactly the same.

That you don't realise or understand this and take the terms literally is something to ponder on and learn.

Who is God?

God is you, and me. I am God and God is me. We are one and the same, all parts of the universal oneness. There is no separate being, no white bearded man with a son, there is only the one true source of life energy and it pervades everything. It is fragmented in unlimited forms across the universe. We are fragments but held in the human form. We should be able to exist and persist in this form for a very long time, but unfortunately we are prevented from doing so. Our access to the quantities of life energy we need has been cut off. That needs to be rectified for us to progress and escape the prison we are in.

If you admit those are religious stories, why do you depend on them so much to base your ideas?

As I see it, God is actually Someone. The day you discover God will change your view away from stories.

If we look at the evidence around us, it does not support the stories you tell.

As I see it, God created the universe to unfold into what we have today and beyond. It's just like a seed grows into a giant tree. The real beauty is that it unfolds in a way that mankind will be able to figure it all out in time.

Is there any evidence of any of this? As I see it. Evolution, Fractals and Quantum Entanglement play well into this. There is evidence all around us of systems growing from a small state to more complex things. People, animals and plants are doing this all over the world. Evidence is all around us. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. God hides nothing. Knowledge waits for those who will struggle through the journey to discover it.

One can choose to lose themselves in stories waiting for someone to save them or one can look at what actually exists around us. In hopeless stories there is nothing that you can do. In true reality, you are limitless as to the actions you can take.

In a search for the Real truth, one must be open to all truth even the truth that one does not readily want to be true. In this light, you show nothing to me other than stories based on stories which are not true. I will never value beliefs over facts. Beliefs are a patch which covers the missing pieces of fact. Beliefs are not always true. Beliefs only point a direction one might go in search for the real truth. If one stops at beliefs and stories, the truth is not what they are after.

From my experience, your stories do not add up. At the very least, your stories lack purpose. Eternity does have purpose. It isn't about having it made.

 

[Nakosis]

As I see it, life is the education of God's children. As we learn, grow and come to understand, our intelligence will discover the best choices. Evil will no longer be a viable choice simply because it's results are not the best.



There is so much to learn. It could never be accomplished in one lifetime. After eons of lives when one acquires so much knowledge and understanding will rules really be necessary? I think not.



People love to control. That's why rules and laws exist in the first place. As I see it, after much learning, one will acquire total freedom from rules and laws. The rules and laws will become obsolete.



OK. let's look around us to see if there is any evidence of this. We only need to look at ourselves. How many evil or bad choices exist that we could never do regardless of whether there were any laws or rules against it? As I see it, for the intelligent person, the list is high. Could you murder, steal, cheat others, lie. Coerce, intimidate? What about adultery? Could you hate others simply because they are different?



Perhaps your answers will show you where you are and what you need to learn.

What is the source for compassion?

Without compassion, life is generally a matter of self interest. Getting what ever it is you want.

Sometimes what people want is to cause each other pain. Anger, jealousy... When you feel these things, what do you want?

Have you've ever felt so angry that rules just don't matter?

Rules keep us from getting what we want. I suppose if all you feel is compassion, that's not much of a problem.

So, what is the source of compassion?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

As I see it, life is the education of God's children. As we learn, grow and come to understand, our intelligence will discover the best choices. Evil will no longer be a viable choice simply because it's results are not the best.



There is so much to learn. It could never be accomplished in one lifetime. After eons of lives when one acquires so much knowledge and understanding will rules really be necessary? I think not.



People love to control. That's why rules and laws exist in the first place. As I see it, after much learning, one will acquire total freedom from rules and laws. The rules and laws will become obsolete.



OK. let's look around us to see if there is any evidence of this. We only need to look at ourselves. How many evil or bad choices exist that we could never do regardless of whether there were any laws or rules against it? As I see it, for the intelligent person, the list is high. Could you murder, steal, cheat others, lie. Coerce, intimidate? What about adultery? Could you hate others simply because they are different?



Perhaps your answers will show you where you are and what you need to learn.

Isn't that describing heaven, more or less?

 

[jonathan180iq]

Newsflash! There aren't actually any RULES to life. There are societal, cultural, and legal pressures - sure. But the minute we decide to collectively reject those things, they go away. They're all fluid - changing from year to year based on public moods and habits... They don't actually exist.

The same is true for religious codes, personal ethics, and all kinds of other things. They're only as real as our desire to apply them to ourselves. Nothing more - nothing less.

 

[Bird123]

What is the source for compassion?

Without compassion, life is generally a matter of self interest. Getting what ever it is you want.

Sometimes what people want is to cause each other pain. Anger, jealousy... When you feel these things, what do you want?

Have you've ever felt so angry that rules just don't matter?

Rules keep us from getting what we want. I suppose if all you feel is compassion, that's not much of a problem.

So, what is the source of compassion?

Good question. As I see it, we are all children of God. We are all eternal. I think we are all connected somehow. I think most everyone is empathic in some way. This seems to be tied to our feelings.

People can get angry, jealous, and etc. People can make bad choices when they get emotional simply because it tends to void the reason half in a person. That is why one should always lead with Reason.

Clearly, feelings should not be discarded either. Just as you suggest, feeling compassion or love for others brings much goodness. Feeling this then the reason half can step in and do what is best for the other.

Through our education, we are also learning to love others unconditionally. After all, that is what we really want to return to us. Compassion can cause one to focus from a feeling point of view. When one can get both halves working together for the best for everyone, I don't think there could ever be a more powerful force.

I always point mainly to the reason and logic half, but clearly as you have demonstrated, life could never be complete without feeling. One just can't let the feelings have total control.

We all have the power to choose what we deem important. Those who act in total self interest are acting emotionally-----Greed. What they have not learned is that those who give get much more back than those who struggle to get get get. It can be a hard and frustrating lesson to learn but many choose that. Keep a lot of selfless people around them to influence them. When they reach a point they give up ever getting what they endlessly claw for, maybe they will understand watching others.

 

[Bird123]

Isn't that describing heaven, more or less?

Very Good Point. Heaven could only exist when one reaches high intelligence along with the understanding that Unconditional Love is the only way. As we all know, Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other not just give them everything they want. Yes, you understand.

As I see it, everyone will make it to Heaven, they just could not possibly make it as soon as they think. There is a lot to learn first.

 

[PilgrimOfLight]

If you admit those are religious stories, why do you depend on them so much to base your ideas?

There is no dependence on the stories in terms of their content. The dependence is purely on a set of text in which is clearly encoded a number of important secrets. Once a person is shown those secrets the picture becomes very clear and the stupidity of people taking the texts literally and basing religions around them is utterly preposterous.

If we look at the evidence around us, it does not support the stories you tell.

That's incorrect in the extreme. I have graciously outlined an alchemical process in my earlier post. I have shown irrefutably how the Bible and other texts and treatises make reference to that alchemical process. To deny those links is just irrational. But we can go further. You CAN actually undertake the alchemical experiment/process.
You CAN go and buy flasks and alembics, water baths and other equipment and go and distil and calcine the substance involved in the process. The substance that the Bible and all other works refer to. This my friend IS actual evidence. It is evidential enquiry. I've seen the website where 100s of people were actively engaged in this process. They put up many photos of their equipment and the contents of their flasks. The Bible and other works explain what is to be expected if you conduct the process correctly. You will get a white salt and sure enough, that is exactly what people have found, in reality, in fact, evidentially. When they put that salt in the egg shaped flask together with the distilled liquid and apply gentle heat over a long period, they see exactly what the secret in the books told them would happen. The White salt first turns absolutely black in the putrefaction stage. Then goes through the other colours.

All throughout this what we see is Nature in action and mimicking exactly what Nature does around us. It's all evidential. Nature takes one thing, decomposes it into its primary materia and then reforms it into something else. We see it happen around us on a daily basis, actual fact, actual evidence, Nature in action. The hidden secrets tell us that Nature will perform the same actions on the salt in the alchemist's flask, and so she does.

As I see it, God created the universe to unfold into what we have today and beyond. It's just like a seed grows into a giant tree. The real beauty is that it unfolds in a way that mankind will be able to figure it all out in time.

That knowledge is out there to be learned and discovered is unquestionable. The crazy belief systems however that abound serve only to stunt our progress and keep our minds locked and dumbed down. People before us realised this and pursued the hidden knowledge relentlessly. They discovered some amazing things including the Philosopher's Stone. They encoded those secrets in works like the Bible but others have since taken the works, doctored them, ripped out important parts and censored the whole thing. Then they built systems of control using their corrupted version. Mankind has been living under the constraint and control of those systems ever since.
The truth needs to come out and be displayed for all to see, In that light, the shadows of the corrupt rulers will be dispelled and mankind as a whole will be able to progress.

In true reality, you are limitless as to the actions you can take.

Time is a factor here. Nature demonstrates daily that we will go around and around and around her cycle. She makes us, she grows us, then we decay, we decompose, and Nature will once again take our primary material and build something else out of it. We are trapped in this loop until such time as we learn that the source of it all is the one true life energy of which the entire universe is composed. Once we know and understand that source, that "oneness" then we can change and merge with it.

In this light, you show nothing to me other than stories based on stories which are not true. I will never value beliefs over facts.

Your mind appears to be closed, not open. I have shown you facts not beliefs. I don't "believe" that the Philosopher's Stone is mentioned in the Bible, I have plainly shown you exactly where it is mentioned in multiple chapters and verses, I have plainly shown you the diagram of the actual apparatus used and the terminology used. 1000s of people the world over are actively engaged in that work, using that apparatus. It is not belief, it is absolute fact. You can choose to ignore those facts, that is your prerogative, but doing so does not advance your understanding nor your personal growth.

From my experience, your stories do not add up.

This statement suggests you have undertaken the alchemical experiments and proven that they do not work. But that is not true is it? You don't have experience of the Philosopher's Stone, you have never undertaken the process, as it is outlined in the Bible and all the 1000s of other scripts, treatises and tomes now readily available,
How can you expect something to "add up" if you:

- refuse to see the references to it in the works
- refuse to objectively investigate what those references are referring to
- refuse to see if the processes outlined there do what they say in the tin

?

Proverbs 3:13-20:

"Happy is the man that findeth wisdom (i.e. the Stone), and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens. By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Some people need rules more than others, in order to be decent or do the right thing. For those people, I'm glad they have rules to help them, and protect us.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Very Good Point. Heaven could only exist when one reaches high intelligence along with the understanding that Unconditional Love is the only way. As we all know, Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other not just give them everything they want. Yes, you understand.

As I see it, everyone will make it to Heaven, they just could not possibly make it as soon as they think. There is a lot to learn first.

That makes sense to me- that Earth is a proving ground, where people with free will learn to choose good over evil in all it's forms- it's the only way a truly and purely good 'society' could exist.. without laws as you say- and what better purpose for creation could there be, than the attainment of pure love?

But whether we all eventually get there.. I'm really not sure, how do you see that this works, reincarnation?