Abortion for rape or icsest teenager

[Pegg]

Hi Pegg.... you didn't answer Alceste's point:-



Is this prohibition written in the Bible?


EDIT: Sorry! I'm still half asleep. Jesus cured a woman who bled constantly for (was it?) 12 years.
My Bad.......... You can call me a twit!.

nah, i wont call you a twit

I think what is often not appreciated about the bible and its mosaic laws, is that those laws have very specific purposes for the time and place they were written. And there is often more then one reason for a given law...ie the menstral laws were to protect women from infection or unwanted intercourse during that time of the month AND they were to remind the people of the sin within and the need for a redeemer.

 

[Pegg]

A bad thing? Let me ask this; When you say "Gods Laws" you really mean your god. Correct?

Our Creator....there is only one of them.

 

[Alceste]

nah, i wont call you a twit

I think what is often not appreciated about the bible and its mosaic laws, is that those laws have very specific purposes for the time and place they were written. And there is often more then one reason for a given law...ie the menstral laws were to protect women from infection or unwanted intercourse during that time of the month AND they were to remind the people of the sin within and the need for a redeemer.

You can't come up with a similarly quaint rationalization of why we needn't pay any attention to the Mosaic rules about "violence" causing miscarriage? The obvious reasoning behind the rule you posted was to protect women against being physically attacked while pregnant. Interpreting it as a prohibition on a woman consciously pursuing an induced miscarriage of an unwanted pregnancy is a square peg in a round hole. Abortion is not violent at all. It's a safe, fairly painless, simple medical procedure.

 

[BSM1]

If a real doctor has to come into a religious froum for medical advise, I dont trust him. Its a big red flag.

So I expressed my moral opinion freely.

[/QUOTE]

Good catch. And even if this is a real doctor someone this indecisive should maybe look into another profession.

 

[allright]

First if the girl is not a Christian you should should tell her about salvation As horrible as what happened to her is as a Christian Jesus can give her a love for the child who is guilty of nothing .
Your self and other Christians sholud give her all the help and support they can
If she decides to have an abortion you can have no part in it. Abortion is murder.
Your duty is to obey Jesus and do his will. The rest is his responsibilty.
Christians have had to watch while their children were tortured to death in front of them
because they woundnt deny Jesus.

 

[Alceste]

First if the girl is not a Christian you should should tell her about salvation As horrible as what happened to her is as a Christian Jesus can give her a love for the child who is guilty of nothing .
Your self and other Christians sholud give her all the help and support they can
If she decides to have an abortion you can have no part in it. Abortion is murder.
Your duty is to obey Jesus and do his will. The rest is his responsibilty.
Christians have had to watch while their children were tortured to death in front of them
because they woundnt deny Jesus.

Hang on a minute - that's really contradictory. If the life of a child is of such immense value that we must consider nothing but giving birth to one regardless of the circumstances of its conception, shouldn't these Christians have denied Jesus to save their own children's lives?

 

[Sunstone]

Thanks Mr Sunstone,
Deutermony 27 v 25 shows that it is a curse that make is so difficult for a newborn Christian

Are you certain, Dr. Mungra, that you have cited the right verse? Would you double-check, please. Because the verse you cited seems completely unrelated to abortion.

 

[allright]

Hang on a minute - that's really contradictory. If the life of a child is of such immense value that we must consider nothing but giving birth to one regardless of the circumstances of its conception, shouldn't these Christians have denied Jesus to save their own children's lives?

A Christian is to obey Jesus and leave the consequences to him
A Christian does not commit murder
A Christian does not deny Jesus.

 

[Sunstone]

Your duty is to obey Jesus and do his will. The rest is his responsibilty.

This strikes me as far more honest about how many Christians -- especially many fundamentalists -- view their moral responsibilities than all the empty words that some of them will say about their "taking full moral responsibility for their actions". For even though most Christians do take full moral responsibility for their actions, there is a sizable subset who do not. They just follow "Jesus and leave the decisions and the responsibility for their actions up to Him."

 

[Pegg]

You can't come up with a similarly quaint rationalization of why we needn't pay any attention to the Mosaic rules about "violence" causing miscarriage? The obvious reasoning behind the rule you posted was to protect women against being physically attacked while pregnant. Interpreting it as a prohibition on a woman consciously pursuing an induced miscarriage of an unwanted pregnancy is a square peg in a round hole. Abortion is not violent at all. It's a safe, fairly painless, simple medical procedure.

no, it wasnt to protect women from violence, it was the protect the unborn from violence. And I can say that because there are other laws protecting women and children from violence in the Mosaic law... but this law is specifically about injury to the unborn child.

if the child comes out prematurely without being injured, then the man was to have damages imposed upon him, and if the child came out prematurely with fatal injury (ie dead), then the men were to be put to death.

Im not sure how you define 'violence', but imo, abortion is certainly a violent act against the unborn child.

 

[allright]

This strikes me as far more honest about how many Christians -- especially many fundamentalists -- view their moral responsibilities than all the empty words that some of them will say about their "taking full moral responsibility for their actions". For even though most Christians do take full moral responsibility for their actions, there is a sizable subset who do not. They just follow "Jesus and leave the decisions and the responsibility for their actions up to Him."

What specific actions are you referring to when you say Christians wont take moral reponsibilty for them?

 

[Sunstone]

What particular actions do you think Christians take that they deny moral reponsibilty for ?

I think this thread -- and past threads on abortion -- provide excellent examples of Christians refusing to take full moral responsibility for the consequences of their words and actions. At least, that is, if their words and actions were to actually put into practice.

For it's certainly not true of all Christians, but there are some who would, for instance, condemn a young girl to risk her life and health for the sake of a fetus conceived in rape and incest. Yet I am far from getting the impression that the same Christians would typically take even minimal responsibility for condemning the girl to that.

For instance, they would not shell out the money she will require to birth and raise her child. But her being forced to birth and (very likely to) raise her child would be the outcome of those Christians getting their way with her. The fact that those Christians do not see a moral duty to follow through in such cases is extraordinarily telling of just how much moral responsibility they are willing to take and just how much they are not willing to take.

The nice thing about most religions, Christianity included, is that a determined slacker can always find scriptures that support his or her weaseling out of taking full moral responsibility for their words and actions.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

no, it wasnt to protect women from violence, it was the protect the unborn from violence. And I can say that because there are other laws protecting women and children from violence in the Mosaic law... but this law is specifically about injury to the unborn child.

if the child comes out prematurely without being injured, then the man was to have damages imposed upon him, and if the child came out prematurely with fatal injury (ie dead), then the men were to be put to death.

Im not sure how you define 'violence', but imo, abortion is certainly a violent act against the unborn child.

There is still a difference between harming a pregnant woman so badly that is causes her to have a miscarriage and women deciding for themselves that they want to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

I think "God" is a nut job if he expects women and girls to carry a pregnancy to term under any and all circumstances. It kind of just seems like he enjoys sitting back, doing nothing and watching raped teenage girls suffer.
P.S it's not a child.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Hi...... He has probably sworn some kind of Hippocratic Oath.
He knows that to carry out an abortion without the orders of a court is a criminal offence which will put him in prison for up to four years.
It's not his ultimate call....... it is a Judge's.

This should be put to the police, which may not have happened. Victims of incestual rape are often terrified about getting the relative into trouble..... crazy, but true.

Thank you for the explaination. Much appreciated!

 

[averageJOE]

Our Creator....there is only one of them.

This is both Subjective and Projection.

You mean your god correct?