Abortion only for rape, insest, and life of the mother.

[Storm]

So, when my stepfather impregnated me at the age of 13, I should have been legally required to bear his child? I guess I ought to be grateful that he beat me into miscarriage, then.

7 hours without so much as an acknowledgment.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

Oh, you don't want government to implant monitoring chips in your body to make sure you are not imbibing illegal substances, going places they think you shouldn't be, or doing anything else they wouldn't be able to otherwise control? Good to hear! (I think we can cover you under the third amendment--no quartering of soldiers)

After President Romney's newly appointed Supreme Court Justices get through with the Bill of Rights, however, quartering soldiers in the womb will be Constitutional.

-Nato

 

[Storm]

Why not? Apparently that's all human females are - walking life support systems.

To hell with blastocytes, we need a Constitutional amendment establishing the personhood of any member of the species unfortunate enough to be born with a uterus.

 

[dawny0826]

How can the President overturn Roe vs. Wade to begin with? Someone is going to have to explain to me how that one would work. The President doesn't have that type of authoritity.

Anyway, with this currently being a non-issue, I wouldn't know how to answer the question outside the auspices of mentioning that emergency contraception can be highly effective in preventing unwanted pregancy, in general.

A progestin-only emergency contraceptive pill, if taken within the first 24 hours after unprotected sex (or rape) can be up to 95% effective.

Some emergency contraception, even if taken within the first 120 hours post sex (or otherwise), is still quite effective.

See this site for my source:

Emergency contraception: Effectiveness of emergency contraceptives


I've always seen abortion as being less of an issue and there being more need for focus on reproductive responsibility and options to better cope with potential of an unwanted pregnancy.

As horrifying as a rape can be, girls and women alike should be educated on the importance of seeking medical help for themselves. Emergency contraception shouldn't be hard to come by and support should be available. It's less convoluted to take a pill than it is to have an abortion. I think it wiser to focus more energy on education than changing such laws.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

How can the President overturn Roe vs. Wade to begin with? Someone is going to have to explain to me how that one would work. The President doesn't have that type of authoritity.

You're correct that he can't do it with a stroke of the pen. But the next President's judicial appointees could sway the Supreme Court to being overwhelmingly pro-life. The next time they hear a case on reproductive rights after that, they could very well set a precedent that would overturn Roe v. Wade and roll back women's rights.

-Nato

 

[dawny0826]

You're correct that he can't do it with a stroke of the pen. But the next President's judicial appointees could sway the Supreme Court to being overwhelmingly pro-life. The next time they hear a case on reproductive rights after that, they could very well set a precedent that would overturn Roe v. Wade and roll back women's rights.

-Nato

I hate big government.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The problem with all that is that the people who are fighting against abortion are also fighting the education and emergency contraception you describe.

 

[Storm]

How can the President overturn Roe vs. Wade to begin with? Someone is going to have to explain to me how that one would work. The President doesn't have that type of authoritity.

Anyway, with this currently being a non-issue, I wouldn't know how to answer the question outside the auspices of mentioning that emergency contraception can be highly effective in preventing unwanted pregancy, in general.

A progestin-only emergency contraceptive pill, if taken within the first 24 hours after unprotected sex (or rape) can be up to 95% effective.

Some emergency contraception, even if taken within the first 120 hours post sex (or otherwise), is still quite effective.

See this site for my source:

Emergency contraception: Effectiveness of emergency contraceptives


I've always seen abortion as being less of an issue and there being more need for focus on reproductive responsibility and options to better cope with potential of an unwanted pregnancy.

As horrifying as a rape can be, girls and women alike should be educated on the importance of seeking medical help for themselves. Emergency contraception shouldn't be hard to come by and support should be available. It's less convoluted to take a pill than it is to have an abortion. I think it wiser to focus more energy on education than changing such laws.

As Penguin said, those opposing abortion include emergency contraception more often than not. Also, how young does a female have to be before it's her fault for not knowing? Someone on this very forum reported his daughter got her period at 8 years old. Is an 8 year old expected to take hormones in case she's raped now?

 

[Alceste]

So, when my stepfather impregnated me at the age of 13, I should have been legally required to bear his child? I guess I ought to be grateful that he beat me into miscarriage, then.

I'm so sorry Storm.

 

[Alceste]

While I agree with you that a fetus is not a person, I think it's interesting that the "bodily rights" argument in favour of the pro-choice position still works even if the fetus is deemed a person.

I think it illustrates that for the anti-choice position to work, they need to put forward an argument that gives a fetus rights and protections well beyond those of a normal person. If they don't do this, they're disregarding the rights of the mother.

I agree with you, and I think it's a great analogy. There's no legal requirement that we take any risks at all to save a life, except the requirement in some countries that a woman must completely give up her autonomy, physical comfort and economic security, submit to permanent physical damage and risk her life whenever there's a sperm/egg combo with a shot at developing into a human being in her body.

That's an important point to make, but it's also important to recognize that the death of a born person is completely different from the miscarriage of an embryo. Imagine the panic that would ensue if half the world's population of born people were to suddenly fall down dead for unknown reasons! And yet, half of all pregnancies miscarry, and it's apparently no big deal unless the woman has a choice.

 

[Storm]

I'm so sorry Storm.

Well, at least someone acknowledged my existence.

 

[dawny0826]

As Penguin said, those opposing abortion include emergency contraception more often than not. Also, how young does a female have to be before it's her fault for not knowing? Someone on this very forum reported his daughter got her period at 8 years old. Is an 8 year old expected to take hormones in case she's raped now?

If a menstruating eight year old is raped, consuming hormones is a much better option than carrying a child full term or even undergoing an abortion, don't you think?

I'm not insinuating that contraception should be law either. I'm simply putting emergency contraception out there as a feasible and available resource to avoid unwanted pregnancy and further trauma.

And...I'm not in opposition to legalized abortion.

 

[Storm]

And...I'm not in opposition to legalized abortion.

Forgive my assumption.

 

[dawny0826]

The problem with all that is that the people who are fighting against abortion are also fighting the education and emergency contraception you describe.

Yes. But, emergency contraception isn't illegal and it isn't part of Roe vs. Wade. It's a separate issue and as long as it's legal and available, I think it's worth consideration if one has the desire to PREVENT an unwanted pregnancy, regardless as to the circumstances of conception.

Basic education regarding choice can come from your doctor, your mother, the internet...

It's not impossible for a girl to come into womanhood and to have confidence in herself and to know what to do if something horrible happens to her and what resources are available to her.

 

[Alceste]

Well, at least someone acknowledged my existence.

I would have responded sooner, but I was sleeping! What you've been through is the perfect illustration of why, in a compassionate society, abortion must be legal, free, and universally accessible without barriers like parental consent, proof of rape, trans-vaginal ultrasounds, anti-abortion "counseling", etc. All those barriers are based on the assumption that a girl or a woman can't really know what she wants if she wants an abortion. If she doesn't want to have a baby, she must be broken, and in need somebody else to step in make that decision for her.

I expect your post was ignored because opponents of reproductive choice can't really handle thinking of the women their regressive agenda will impact as real, living, breathing human beings. They know you, and they know me, and if either of us try to incorporate our own personal experiences into the conversation, they'll be swept under the rug in favour of returning to non-personal abstractions that demonize caricatures of women who choose to induce a miscarriage.

 

[Me Myself]

The problem with all that is that the people who are fighting against abortion are also fighting the education and emergency contraception you describe.

I am not

 

[Me Myself]

I would have responded sooner, but I was sleeping! What you've been through is the perfect illustration of why, in a compassionate society, abortion must be legal, free, and universally accessible without barriers like parental consent, proof of rape, trans-vaginal ultrasounds, anti-abortion "counseling", etc. All those barriers are based on the assumption that a girl or a woman can't really know what she wants if she wants an abortion. If she doesn't want to have a baby, she must be broken, and in need somebody else to step in make that decision for her.

I expect your post was ignored because opponents of reproductive choice can't really handle thinking of the women their regressive agenda will impact as real, living, breathing human beings. They know you, and they know me, and if either of us try to incorporate our own personal experiences into the conversation, they'll be swept under the rug in favour of returning to non-personal abstractions that demonize caricatures of women who choose to induce a miscarriage.

Which caricatures? Storm´s situation sounds very tough, I find it sad that in her difficult state she found someone else to make a victim.

 

[Storm]

I would have responded sooner, but I was sleeping! What you've been through is the perfect illustration of why, in a compassionate society, abortion must be legal, free, and universally accessible without barriers like parental consent, proof of rape, trans-vaginal ultrasounds, anti-abortion "counseling", etc. All those barriers are based on the assumption that a girl or a woman can't really know what she wants if she wants an abortion. If she doesn't want to have a baby, she must be broken, and in need somebody else to step in make that decision for her.

I expect your post was ignored because opponents of reproductive choice can't really handle thinking of the women their regressive agenda will impact as real, living, breathing human beings. They know you, and they know me, and if either of us try to incorporate our own personal experiences into the conversation, they'll be swept under the rug in favour of returning to non-personal abstractions that demonize caricatures of women who choose to induce a miscarriage.

I expect you're right about that.

 

[Storm]

Which caricatures? Storm´s situation sounds very tough, I find it sad that in her difficult state she found someone else to make a victim.

So, not only should I have been forced to endure a 40-week extension of my violation, but it's MY fault that said 40 weeks were cut short by steel toed boots?

Let's up the ante, here: I made no attempt to block said steel-toed boots. How many decades in prison should I have received as an accessory to murder?

 

[Alceste]

If a menstruating eight year old is raped, consuming hormones is a much better option than carrying a child full term or even undergoing an abortion, don't you think?

I'm not insinuating that contraception should be law either. I'm simply putting emergency contraception out there as a feasible and available resource to avoid unwanted pregnancy and further trauma.

And...I'm not in opposition to legalized abortion.

Romney calls emergency contraception "abortion pills" and attempted to veto legislation in Massachusetts that made it available to rape victims. He also pressured a Mormon woman whose doctor told her her pregnancy posed a serious threat to her life to go through with it anyway, even to the extent of visiting her parents to try to get them to increase the pressure. (They said they'd never been so offended in their lives).

Just saying, it's really, really important that American women get out there and vote this time around. Providing emergency contraception for rape victims is a total no-brainer for anyone who values women as people, rather than mindless vessels for procreation.