Abortion only for rape, insest, and life of the mother.

[Alceste]

Which caricatures? Storm´s situation sounds very tough, I find it sad that in her difficult state she found someone else to make a victim.

WHAT!? What part of "When I was 13, my stepfather beat me until I miscarried his child" didn't you get?

You need to apologize.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree with you, and I think it's a great analogy. There's no legal requirement that we take any risks at all to save a life, except the requirement in some countries that a woman must completely give up her autonomy, physical comfort and economic security, submit to permanent physical damage and risk her life whenever there's a sperm/egg combo with a shot at developing into a human being in her body.

That's an important point to make, but it's also important to recognize that the death of a born person is completely different from the miscarriage of an embryo. Imagine the panic that would ensue if half the world's population of born people were to suddenly fall down dead for unknown reasons! And yet, half of all pregnancies miscarry, and it's apparently no big deal unless the woman has a choice.

I agree. Yes, the anti-choicers have set the hurdle at the wrong height (my point), but they haven't even cleared their own hurdle.

And I think you're right: there are many so-called pro-life people who don't treat the fetus as a person in other ways. It was a real eye-opener for me to see how my Catholic in-laws reacted to the news of actual miscarriages. Not one of them reacted the way somebody would react to the death of a child.

 

[dawny0826]

Romney calls emergency contraception "abortion pills" and attempted to veto legislation in Massachusetts that made it available to rape victims. He also pressured a Mormon woman whose doctor told her her pregnancy posed a serious threat to her life to go through with it anyway, even to the extent of visiting her parents to try to get them to increase the pressure. (They said they'd never been so offended in their lives).

Just saying, it's really, really important that American women get out there and vote this time around. Providing emergency contraception for rape victims is a total no-brainer for anyone who values women as people, rather than mindless vessels for procreation.

I agree with you.

 

[Storm]

WHAT!? What part of "When I was 13, my stepfather beat me until I miscarried his child" didn't you get?

Betcha $50 it's the part he didn't bother to read.

 

[Alceste]

Betcha $50 it's the part he didn't bother to read.

Amazing, and demonstrates exactly how much thought anti-choice men typically put into the whole subject. "Meh - I'll just read half a sentence, ignore the rest, reflect thoughtfully on none of it, then caricature the pro-choice opinion holder as a callous murderer."

 

[Me Myself]

I apologize.

 

[Storm]

I apologize.

I'd rather you answered the question of how long I should have been imprisoned.

 

[Me Myself]

I'd rather you answered the question of how long I should have been imprisoned.

Imprisoned? In Ecuador it is 1-4 years for killing the baby in your womb and 2-4 years to any doctor that helped.

Then again, I´d imprison the stepfather for such killing.

 

[Storm]

Imprisoned? In Ecuador it is 1-4 years for killing the baby in your womb and 2-4 years to any doctor that helped.

Then again, I´d imprison the stepfather for such killing.

Murder carries a maximum sentence of four years? That's awfully mild, don't you think?

Well, I freely admitted that, by your standards I was an accessory to murder. After all, I could have fought back, and didn't because I didn't want my rapist's insensate zygote to live, either. So, how long should I have gone to prison for being raped and beaten?

 

[Me Myself]

Murder carries a maximum sentence of four years? That's awfully mild, don't you think?

Well, I freely admitted that, by your standards I was an accessory to murder. After all, I could have fought back, and didn't because I didn't want my rapist's insensate zygote to live, either. So, how long should I have gone to prison for being raped and beaten?

For purposefully putting your child at risk? (this is what you are saying you did? )

The rape has nothing to do with it.

 

[Alceste]

Imprisoned? In Ecuador it is 1-4 years for killing the baby in your womb and 2-4 years to any doctor that helped.

Then again, I´d imprison the stepfather for such killing.

What a backwards country Ecuador is if it forces girls to bear children conceived in incestuous rape when there are safe, effective alternatives.

Did you know that a 13 year old child's frame is typically too small to handle pregnancy and child birth without suffering extreme pain, permanent physical damage and a much higher risk of complications, including death?

True story.

Early childbearing may be life-threatening to both the mother and the child. Mothers younger than 17 face an increased risk of maternal mortality because their bodies are not yet mature enough to bear children.2,3,8 These young women may not recognize the symptoms of pregnancy or may not wish to acknowledge a conception, delaying prenatal care and endangering the health of the child and mother.2

In Paraguay, a pregnant adolescent's risk of dying is 52 times higher than in the United States. Nearly 20 percent of adolescent female deaths in Paraguay are attributable to complications of pregnancy or childbirth. In Ecuador, the Dominican Republic and El Salvador, the percentages are 13, 8.2 and 7.2, respectively.9

The Impact of Early Pregnancy and Childbearing on Adolescent Mothers and Their Children

Hm - if pregnancy kills young girls, wouldn't the pro-life position be to provide emergency contraception or abortion? But you're not pro-life, are you. You're anti-choice. "Young girls are dying every day, but who cares? The important thing is that they don't get to decide for themselves whether or not to have my baby."

 

[Storm]

For purposefully putting your child at risk? (this is what you are saying you did? )

For deliberately allowing the death of my rapist's insensate zygote.

The rape has nothing to do with it.

The rape has everything to do with it.

 

[Me Myself]

What a backwards country Ecuador is

I don´t like my country, but at least it got right the issues about the value of human life in this matter. It is something.

What a backwards country Ecuador is if it forces girls to bear children conceived in incestuous rape when there are safe, effective alternatives.

Well, for starters, abortion is legally allowed when it risks the life of the mother.

So the life of the mother is valued above the life of the unborn, but not her comfort valued above the life of the unborn.

Did you know that a 13 year old child's frame is typically too small to handle pregnancy and child birth without suffering extreme pain, permanent physical damage and a much higher risk of complications, including death?

True story.

I wouldn´t put a 13 year old pregnancy in the same bowl of an adult pregnancy if that was the case. That being said, it is important to remember it is the rapist that did this. Killing the unborn is merely adding another innocent victim.

Depending on the risk of death, the abortion does become a legal option.

Hm - if pregnancy kills young girls, wouldn't the pro-life position be to provide emergency contraception or abortion?

I agree. This is rarely the case though. Most cases of abortion the mother´s life is not in risk.

 

[Me Myself]

For deliberately allowing the death of my rapist's insensate zygote.

Given the circumstances and the psychological shock, I´d say whatever the standard procedure for kids being "accomplices" to murder. You were not an adult yet.

The rape has everything to do with it.

In your head, I am sure. Any person making infractions to law has it´s rationale on how or why the laws should be breakable i that instance. But then again, you just don´t value human life until later on and didn´t consider it unlawful as it wasn´t in your country. It was too far away from you considerations given all the elements around you on such situation.

 

[Storm]

But then again, you just don´t value human life until later on and didn´t consider it unlawful as it wasn´t in your country.

Yeah, that's the problem here: I just don't value human life.

You know, at least Mister Emu had the social skills to realize he couldn't make this argument without sounding like a sociopath.

 

[Me Myself]

Yeah, that's the problem here: I just don't value human life.

You don´t value the human until later on. If you cut the phrase then you robb important part of it´s meaning.

I don´t have any reason to believe you don´t value, say my life or a stranger´s life.

For what I hear though, and correct me if I am wrong, you don´t have much value for human life until birth?

 

[Storm]

You don´t value the human until later on. If you cut the phrase then you robb important part of it´s meaning.

I don´t have any reason to believe you don´t value, say my life or a stranger´s life.

For what I hear though, and correct me if I am wrong, you don´t have much value for human life until birth?

You're wrong.

 

[Me Myself]

You're wrong.

Great, I am listening.

 

[Storm]

Great, I am listening.

You need elaboration? Fine. I value the sanity and futures of actual people over the "rights" of insensate zygotes and happen to think survivors of rape regardless of age have been victimized enough already, thank you very much.

I hold this opinion because, as an actual person with the legal misfortune to have been born female, I understand that the presence of my uterus does not negate my personhood.

 

[Me Myself]

You need elaboration? Fine. I value the sanity and futures of actual people over the "rights" of insensate zygotes and happen to think survivors of rape regardless of age have been victimized enough already, thank you very much.

I hold this opinion because, as an actual person with the legal misfortune to have been born female, I understand that the presence of my uterus does not negate my personhood.

did the question confuse you? I asked about the value you give to the unborn and you talk to me about the value you give to those born.

You seem to reinforce my assumption that you do not value human life until it is born.