Abortion

[Neophyte]

What if 2 forms of innocent lives are violated?;Say in the scenario of a challenged/innocent patient being raped, resulting with a pregnancy; you would say make the innocent go through something they can not even comprehend?

Why is the girl uncapable of understanding that there is an innocent baby inside her? She might not understand what she did (usually becuase she did nothing to cause it, but I am saying that from what she is thinking), she may not understand why someone man could be so cruel, she may not understand how she could ever trust anyone again, but she can understand the baby was not at fault. She can also understand that she could bring a family out there joy by giving them a happy, little life. Besides, many women that have abortions feel horrible for it afterwards for it. Why traumatize them more than they already are?

 

[Rakhel]

Why is the girl uncapable of understanding that there is an innocent baby inside her? She might not understand what she did (usually becuase she did nothing to cause it, but I am saying that from what she is thinking), she may not understand why someone man could be so cruel, she may not understand how she could ever trust anyone again, but she can understand the baby was not at fault. She can also understand that she could bring a family out there joy by giving them a happy, little life. Besides, many women that have abortions feel horrible for it afterwards for it. Why traumatize them more than they already are?

Because to some women, and girls, giving birth can be just as, if not more, traumatizing as being raped.

 

[Songbird]

Except the fact it is not her own body...it is the babies that someone no one here seems to realize. Apparently the baby has no right to decide. Guess everyone's morals can be pushed on him/her.

If we go with the 9-year-old scenario only, the likelihood of her dying during pregnancy or childbirth is so high, the point of fetal rights is moot. If the mother dies, the baby will probably die too. In light of that, if this were my daughter,I'd likely not give her a choice. She'd have an abortion. My 9-year-old doesn't have a choice about getting vaccinated or whether to go to school. Heck, he doesn't have a whole lot of choice about much at this age. I wouldn't risk my child's life.

 

[Valjean]

Is there an innocent baby in her, or is there a foetus? What qualities must an organism have to qualify for personhood or claim rights? Does a foetus have any of these?

I suspect the post-abortion remorse that Christians keep bringing up is largely either myth or the product of Christian propaganda.

 

[Songbird]

Is there an innocent baby in her, or is there a foetus? What qualities must an organism have to qualify for personhood or claim rights? Does a foetus have any of these?

I suspect the post-abortion remorse that Christians keep bringing up is largely either myth or the product of Christian propaganda.

I read that women who regret having an abortion approximate the number of women who regret carrying an unwanted child to term. Though I don't put much stock in pro-life or pro-choice websites, one prochoice site states that there's a higher rate of psychiatric illness post-childbirth than post-abortion.

 

[McBell]

Except the fact it is not her own body...

Really?
Then whose body is it?
Not talking about the parasitic being with in her body, talking about the girls right to make decisions about her own body.

Seems to me you are attempting to strawman.

it is the babies that someone no one here seems to realize.

So the girls body is no longer hers while she is pregnant?
It is actually the fetuses?

Apparently the baby has no right to decide.

Actually it is not a baby.
It is a fetus.
Putting aside your appeal to emotion, please present evidence that a fetus is able to understand the question, the answers, and the consequences associated for each answer.

Guess everyone's morals can be pushed on him/her.

And?
I mean, it is not like anyone is ever free of having morals pushed on them.
What makes the fetus so special?

 

[McBell]

I am sure the baby would feel otherwise...

How about you go and ask a bunch of them, record their replies, and then make a nice neat little pie chart?

 

[McBell]

Why is the girl uncapable of understanding that there is an innocent baby inside her? She might not understand what she did (usually becuase she did nothing to cause it, but I am saying that from what she is thinking), she may not understand why someone man could be so cruel, she may not understand how she could ever trust anyone again, but she can understand the baby was not at fault. She can also understand that she could bring a family out there joy by giving them a happy, little life. Besides, many women that have abortions feel horrible for it afterwards for it. Why traumatize them more than they already are?

Your appeal to emotion aside, many women have no problems with getting an abortion and some woman have trauma every time they look at the results of her rape.

 

[McBell]

I read that women who regret having an abortion approximate the number of women who regret carrying an unwanted child to term. Though I don't put much stock in pro-life or pro-choice websites, one prochoice site states that there's a higher rate of psychiatric illness post-childbirth than post-abortion.

I agree.
The numbers always seem altered to further the agenda of the group presenting them.

So in my opinion, the only thing one can really say is that there are women in each of the categories.

 

[McBell]

I suspect the post-abortion remorse that Christians keep bringing up is largely either myth or the product of Christian propaganda.

I suspect that it is mostly transference..
THEY would feel guilty, remorse, etc. so everyone else has to as well.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Meh, anybody who holds the position that women should be forced to give birth if they get pregnant, and who hasn't adopted at least a couple of the millions of unwanted children out there, is basically full of crap.

People love to spout off about their superior moral values, but if you don't put your money where your mouth is to help solve problems stemming from that morality, then your words are nothing but empty platitudes.

 

[beenie]

Except the fact it is not her own body...it is the babies that someone no one here seems to realize. Apparently the baby has no right to decide. Guess everyone's morals can be pushed on him/her.

The baby is in a woman's uterus, in case you have forgotten. That uterus cannot stand alone and grow a baby. I'm not about to tell a woman who has been raped what they "have" to do based on MY moral grounds. Heck, I don't even know what I'd do. I like to think I know what I'd do in any circumstance, but until I'm in it, I can't say for sure.

Why is the girl uncapable of understanding that there is an innocent baby inside her? She might not understand what she did (usually becuase she did nothing to cause it, but I am saying that from what she is thinking), she may not understand why someone man could be so cruel, she may not understand how she could ever trust anyone again, but she can understand the baby was not at fault. She can also understand that she could bring a family out there joy by giving them a happy, little life. Besides, many women that have abortions feel horrible for it afterwards for it. Why traumatize them more than they already are?

Do you expect a 14-year-old girl to understand all of this? She's barely old enough to know what happened, let alone all the emotions you're describing.

Meh, anybody who holds the position that women should be forced to give birth if they get pregnant, and who hasn't adopted at least a couple of the millions of unwanted children out there, is basically full of crap.

People love to spout off about their superior moral values, but if you don't put your money where your mouth is to help solve problems stemming from that morality, then your words are nothing but empty platitudes.

Truth...and I'm a tough one to convince.

 

[horizon_mj1]

I say that life started a long long time ago and is a continous ongoing process.
Thus I find all the "Life begins at" arguments to be at best ill thought out and at worst self justification.

It is refreshing to read that

 

[Storm]

Meh, anybody who holds the position that women should be forced to give birth if they get pregnant, and who hasn't adopted at least a couple of the millions of unwanted children out there, is basically full of crap.

People love to spout off about their superior moral values, but if you don't put your money where your mouth is to help solve problems stemming from that morality, then your words are nothing but empty platitudes.

I can't frubal you again. :sad4:

 

[horizon_mj1]

A tapeworm cannot live independently, either, yet most would acknowledge it a discrete entity.
I'm not sure ability to survive independently is a valid criterion of personhood or moral obligation.
We are all dependent, to varying degrees, on extrinsic factors.

The very extrinsic factors in which "validate" moral obligations and valid criterion of "personhood" (I prefer the term humanity) is based on life itself, including when it begins (IMO). Yes a tapeworm is a parasitic entity in which needs a host to survive, but isn't an unborn animal of any sort until it can ingest food and oxygen (or what ever form in the biosphere in which is needed for its survival)?

 

[horizon_mj1]

I am sure the baby would feel otherwise...

How would something without the ability to "think" anything, feel anything????

 

[horizon_mj1]

Meh, anybody who holds the position that women should be forced to give birth if they get pregnant, and who hasn't adopted at least a couple of the millions of unwanted children out there, is basically full of crap.

People love to spout off about their superior moral values, but if you don't put your money where your mouth is to help solve problems stemming from that morality, then your words are nothing but empty platitudes.

I do not believe in abortion as a means of birth control, but we are so over populating our planet thus insuring its demise as well as the demise of our species (oh the irony we want to breed to save ourselves, yet it is one of the most prominent factors in assuring we will not be able to grant the assurance of future genrations). Some churches really do try to help, but that all famous quote from the Bible, be fruitful and multiply has been taken to the extent of breeding yourself to death, pathetic IMO.

 

[Rakhel]

How would something without the ability to "think" anything, feel anything????

He could ask the grass if it wants to be cut. I think the principle is about the same.

 

[Father Heathen]

OK, so you feel life starts at or before conception. That is fine. I do disagree since we always have living sperm and egg cells. They just die off and move on, and are reproduced. If you said, it starts at conception I would understand more.

What would make a single cell zygote magically more special than a single cell sperm or egg, or even a single cell bacteria?

 

[Father Heathen]

We should focus on those poor children as well. I never said we shouldn't. At the same time, this does not make it ok to take an innocent life. Neither does the fact an innocent girl suffered great trauma. I truly feel bad for her and am not trying to make light of her tragic situation. I would make whoever did that to her suffer greatly for that if I could, believe me! Still, I could not take an innocent life for that.

When you wash your hands with anti-bacterial soap you kill "innocent life".