Abortion

[TheChap]

Abortion should be an option in the first 40 days after conception. This is because the fetus does not have brain activity until this time. As the enlightenment philosopher Descarte said, "I think therefore I am," and allowing abortion in the first 40 days goes off of his ideology. What makes us human? What sets us apart from other mammals and all other animals? It is our ability for higher thinking processes. We can reason through life while other animals act upon instinct. It is for these reasons that abortion should be legal in the first 40 days, but after this time it should become illegal.

 

[HonestJoe]

From the philosophical point of view, is "brain activity" the same as "thinking" (and therefore being)?

From a practical point of view, how many women are even aware they're pregnant at 40 days after conception (it sounds very early but I seriously don't know)?

Finally, the quote that came to my mind for some reason and that I really wanted to work in to context but couldn't; "Death is like walking into another room. The only difference is that when you shout 'Where are my clean socks?', nobody answers." - Terry Pratchett.

 

[Storm]

From a practical point of view, how many women are even aware they're pregnant at 40 days after conception (it sounds very early but I seriously don't know)?

Almost none.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

I judge the potential value of any abortion thread by the amount of times the OP mentions the mother.

This one doesn't look promising.

-Nato

 

[Gemini]

Seems like every one has a strong opinion on this matter, whereas I am really perpetually in a grey zone with it. On one hand, the whole process just seems so wrong from a visceral standpoint, and often the child could be given up for abortion. On the other hand, I agree that at such an early stage, it's no worse than killing some low level organism. Where the line is drawn, I don't know. I like the idea of 40 days. If people wanna go around getting knocked up and let it go unknown and undecided that long, then maybe just tough it out and give it up for abortion. Add the element of over-population and then my head is really spinning. I do like the idea of giving "castration drug" injections to sex offenders and people the court had deemed unsuited to raise children. It's amazing how many seemingly well-adjusted people turn out to be bad parents, even. There should be some rigorous child psychology, basic health care, and nutritional tests administered to people who plan to raise a child, plus sufficient evidence presented that said child is financially likely to be cared for.

People running around, banging like rabbits, co-existing with nature in a similar fashion to a virus, tossing unwanted fetuses, keeping kids while on section 8 and nursing a methadone addiction... It's all a bit chaotic. But this is just stream of consciousness. I find it somewhat disturbing when anybody feels strongly one way or another on abortion. It's not freeing the slaves or lowering taxes, you either seem somewhat sociopathic on one end of the spectrum, or unrealistically rigid on the other.

 

[Photonic]

Seems like every one has a strong opinion on this matter, whereas I am really perpetually in a grey zone with it. On one hand, the whole process just seems so wrong from a visceral standpoint, and often the child could be given up for abortion. On the other hand, I agree that at such an early stage, it's no worse than killing some low level organism. Where the line is drawn, I don't know. I like the idea of 40 days. If people wanna go around getting knocked up and let it go unknown and undecided that long, then maybe just tough it out and give it up for abortion. Add the element of over-population and then my head is really spinning. I do like the idea of giving "castration drug" injections to sex offenders and people the court had deemed unsuited to raise children. It's amazing how many seemingly well-adjusted people turn out to be bad parents, even. There should be some rigorous child psychology, basic health care, and nutritional tests administered to people who plan to raise a child, plus sufficient evidence presented that said child is financially likely to be cared for.

People running around, banging like rabbits, co-existing with nature in a similar fashion to a virus, tossing unwanted fetuses, keeping kids while on section 8 and nursing a methadone addiction... It's all a bit chaotic. But this is just stream of consciousness. I find it somewhat disturbing when anybody feels strongly one way or another on abortion. It's not freeing the slaves or lowering taxes, you either seem somewhat sociopathic on one end of the spectrum, or unrealistically rigid on the other.

It needs to be balanced between the rights of the mother and the rights of the organism that isn't even a human yet.

 

[Gemini]

Agreed. I think the concept of balance is often ignored when it comes to this subject. I get equally offended when I hear vehement arguments made on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[idav]

Almost none.

Mainly the folks who planned it.

 

[Sunstone]

A forty day old fetus might or might not have neural activity, but that neural activity is hardly on the level of "higher consciousness". Try more on the level of a flatworm.

 

[Draka]

Almost none.

Technically, most. 40 days after conception would be approximately 26 days after the first missed period. Most women find out they are pregnant when they miss their period. Given that conception occurs usually mid-month between periods around normal ovulation time, this gives a woman just less than one month to make the decision according to his proposal. Now whether that is felt to be enough time reasonably would be an argument to be made.

 

[Draka]

It needs to be balanced between the rights of the mother and the rights of the organism that isn't even a human yet.

The response to this kind of statement is usually to "define human".

 

[fantome profane]

The response to this kind of statement is usually to "define human".

Easy.

Human: Any biological life-form that pays taxes.

 

[Storm]

Mainly the folks who planned it.

Not necessarily.

Technically, most. 40 days after conception would be approximately 26 days after the first missed period. Most women find out they are pregnant when they miss their period. Given that conception occurs usually mid-month between periods around normal ovulation time, this gives a woman just less than one month to make the decision according to his proposal. Now whether that is felt to be enough time reasonably would be an argument to be made.

You're right. I don't have regular periods anymore, so I didn't think of that.

 

[Storm]

Easy.

Human: Any biological life-form that pays taxes.

I'm not human? Thanks.... :sarcastic

 

[Father Heathen]

A lack of sapience/sentience = not a person.

Pop it outta there.

 

[Photonic]

The response to this kind of statement is usually to "define human".

What do we constitute as a human? The Sperm? The Egg? The multicellular organism that constitutes what we call a fetus?

I'm sorry but there needs to be a medium from when it becomes human offspring.

 

[bobhikes]

What do you think of this new Idea.

Out law abortion, except for medical reasons, but to respect the womans right's she must be paid to carry the baby to full term.

We could set a rate but for example I'll use minimum wage.

Figuring 30 days a month 24 hrs a day roughly 10 months at 7.75 per hour equals $53,640 dollars and we could always up the rate of pay. Even if we doubled it can you put a value that you wouldn't pay to save a human life.

edit - Only make it illegal if someone is willing to pay the set rate. For example the father wants the baby.

 

[ConfusedKuri]

Some women don't notice their pregnancy until they are in their 7th/8th week, 40 days is quite early depending on your cycle.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

The response to this kind of statement is usually to "define human".

And my response to this is usually "define relevant."

Is the reason we feel comfortable making such arbitrary distinctions that it allows us to oppress women? We need to talk about a fetus's chromosomes and brainwave activity so it makes it seem like we're engaged in something more objective and scientific than dehumanizing a pregnant woman?

-Nato

 

[work in progress]

What do you think of this new Idea.

Out law abortion, except for medical reasons, but to respect the womans right's she must be paid to carry the baby to full term.

We could set a rate but for example I'll use minimum wage.

Figuring 30 days a month 24 hrs a day roughly 10 months at 7.75 per hour equals $53,640 dollars and we could always up the rate of pay. Even if we doubled it can you put a value that you wouldn't pay to save a human life.

Even if you pay someone....a very modest amount of money, it still doesn't deal with the issue of denial of personal rights. Is it okay if I throw you in prison for some arbitrary reason, if I pay you $7.75 per hour?

edit - Only make it illegal if someone is willing to pay the set rate. For example the father wants the baby.

And by paying a modest sum of money for his ex to go through pregnancy and delivery of the baby, he has constrained any plans she may have had to: travel or take on some challenge that pregnancy will interfere with. And at the conclusion, he gets to take the baby away!