Abortion

[Acim]

Even abstinence is not 100%...

Okay...

 

[McBell]

Okay...

We have seen over the past few decades that abstinence only does not work.
Which makes sense since not even abstinence is 100%,

 

[Acim]

We have seen over the past few decades that abstinence only does not work.
Which makes sense since not even abstinence is 100%,

I'm not advocating for abstinence only.

 

[BSM1]

Even abstinence is not 100%...

???

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Which makes sense since not even abstinence is 100%,

The only exception to the ^ above ^ is when God transferred the pre-human heavenly life of Jesus into abstinence Mary's womb.

 

[Raahim]

I didn't read whole topic since it holds 111 pages on posts, but the natural abortion is something that's meant to be with the will of God. Decision to end a starting life while God willed for it to be born is something else.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I didn't read whole topic since it holds 111 pages on posts, but the natural abortion is something that's meant to be with the will of God. Decision to end a starting life while God willed for it to be born is something else.

Would you consider ' natural abortion ' as in having a miscarriage ?________
As far as deliberate premeditated abortion, it is a High Crime in God's eyes when the sole purpose for an abortion is to get rid of an unwanted child.

 

[BSM1]

Would you consider ' natural abortion ' as in having a miscarriage ?________
As far as deliberate premeditated abortion, it is a High Crime in God's eyes when the sole purpose for an abortion is to get rid of an unwanted child.

Even if the "child" was the results of a fourteen year old girl being raped?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Even if the "child" was the results of a fourteen year old girl being raped?

As far as our society, don't they today have that ' morning after ' pill ?
The only or sole reason in a rape case would Not be just to get rid of an unwanted child.
However, if the pregnancy was discovered later on, then there is a BIG moral conscience decision to deal with.
So, there would be a large conscience difference between using a ' morning after ' pill in the case of rape, and an established pregnancy.

 

[BSM1]

As far as our society, don't they today have that ' morning after ' pill ?
The only or sole reason in a rape case would Not be just to get rid of an unwanted child.
However, if the pregnancy was discovered later on, then there is a BIG moral conscience decision to deal with.
So, there would be a large conscience difference between using a ' morning after ' pill in the case of rape, and an established pregnancy.

Suppose the girl was held captive for a week or two and didn't have access to the "morning after" pill. Suppose she was in her first trimester when she was freed. Do you think she should have to carry the fetus to full term? Wouldn't that be re-raping this young girl? Who would be the heartless one in this scenario?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Suppose the girl was held captive for a week or two and didn't have access to the "morning after" pill. Suppose she was in her first trimester when she was freed. Do you think she should have to carry the fetus to full term? Wouldn't that be re-raping this young girl? Who would be the heartless one in this scenario?

How horrific, and that is a BIG conscience matter because it is a moral issue. Giving birth is Not re-raping.
I met a girl who was raped by her father and had a baby. With or without that child that experience for her was traumatic.
I've heard of babysitters taking advantage of who they were supposed to be in charge for the child's safety.
So, each case is individual, but life comes from God and to deliberately take un-born life for selfish reasons is wrong in God's eyes.

 

[BSM1]

How horrific, and that is a BIG conscience matter because it is a moral issue. Giving birth is Not re-raping.
I met a girl who was raped by her father and had a baby. With or without that child that experience for her was traumatic.
I've heard of babysitters taking advantage of who they were supposed to be in charge for the child's safety.
So, each case is individual, but life comes from God and to deliberately take un-born life for selfish reasons is wrong in God's eyes.

So you assume to speak for God?. It's not the birth I was talking about, it was about your hard hearted treatment of a fourteen year old rape victim that may not want her rapist's progeny.

 

[Acim]

So you assume to speak for God?. It's not the birth I was talking about, it was about your hard hearted treatment of a fourteen year old rape victim that may not want her rapist's progeny.

Hey, you've come with possible exception. Not that I'd grant it. But it's a possible exception. I'm sure you can think of more.

 

[SkepticThinker]

For the life of me, I can't understand why if you aren't wanting abortions to happen, do favor the availability of contraceptions, but would dislike having abstinence as the most obvious way to prevent pregnancy (that could lead to decision for abortion). IMO, if contraception awareness is going to be taught, abstinence awareness ought to be conveyed and emphasized. It ought to be presented as method #1 to the newly initiated, for the reality of human dating/mating. Contraception can be noted, considered, but ought to be seen as secondary to abstinence.

Any paradigm that would deemphasize abstinence would then be a philosophy where I could see why contraception awareness would be downplayed even while there is desire to limit or eradicate abortions.

Education on both abstinence and contraception (which is what I grew up with) appears to be the most effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Abstinence-only programs are a failure in preventing STD's and teen pregnancies. So I agree with you on that one.

The way I look at it is that pretty much every human being on the planet is going to have sex at some point in their life. Therefore everybody needs to be educated about it. About how their bodies work. About their reproduction cycle. About what can happen if you do it. And about how to do it safely in order to reduce the various risks that can be involved. Then when the time comes when people do decide to have sex, they'll be well informed.

 

[fantome profane]

then there is a BIG moral conscience decision to deal with.

There is always a "big moral conscience decision" to make. I just think we should let the women make that decision.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you assume to speak for God?. It's not the birth I was talking about, it was about your hard hearted treatment of a fourteen year old rape victim that may not want her rapist's progeny.

The word ' father ' means life giver and Not life taker. God in Scripture is called as Our Father ( aka Life Giver )
What hard-hearted treatment are you referring ?
It is a moral issue about how does one feel about the death of innocent people ?

 

[BilliardsBall]

There are very few cases like that. Most of the time, when viable organs get buried, it's because the deceased never bothered to express an opinion either way on the issue.


Bodily autonomy isn't a reason to have an abortion; it's a reason not to stop a woman who seeks one.

You are goalpost shifting with both responses:

1. I was talking about those who specifically deny organ donation, this to draw a parallel, when questioned, with specifically denying abortion "rights".

2. Bodily autonomy is absolutely cited by some as their reason for abortion, not just poverty or rape or incest but "I cannot be bothered at this time".

 

[Acim]

Education on both abstinence and contraception (which is what I grew up with) appears to be the most effective in preventing unwanted pregnancy and STDs. Abstinence-only programs are a failure in preventing STD's and teen pregnancies. So I agree with you on that one.

The way I look at it is that pretty much every human being on the planet is going to have sex at some point in their life. Therefore everybody needs to be educated about it. About how their bodies work. About their reproduction cycle. About what can happen if you do it. And about how to do it safely in order to reduce the various risks that can be involved. Then when the time comes when people do decide to have sex, they'll be well informed.

I kinda feel like in today's world that the presumption of people having heterosexual relations would be seen as 'offensive' to some. And yet, I still think the abstinence message for these people (or really all people) would be helpful. Wish to be as abundantly clears as I can that I don't think abstinence only is the way to go. I also don't know the way to go with all this as we adults seem like we haven't worked through a whole lot on this issue, nor have a surefire technique to present the topic to minors in a way that makes it not boring and fully takes into account the idea that many really just wish to explore/experiment, realizing the textbook/dry explanations are not aligned with what's going in their lives.

When I was a minor, adults routinely came across as: do as I say, not as I do.

 

[BilliardsBall]

We have seen over the past few decades that abstinence only does not work.
Which makes sense since not even abstinence is 100%,

Abstinence only does not work per se. The pursuit of righteousness works. Even Gentiles arrived at righteousness while many of the Jewish people missed it, because they were pursuing... law.

There are endless debates at this forum re: abortion in terms of law. Ironic, since the religious are usually far more interested in righteousness of action and intention.

Sex before marriage is legal but not righteous. Abstinence teaching, combined with righteousness teaching, would accomplish wonders for an entire country, and no, I'm not interested in hearing your anecdotes about non-born again Christians who grew up in "righteousness" than got pregnant out of wedlock. I'm speaking of some will get pregnant out of wedlock, but righteousness can change an entire nation.

 

[McBell]

Abstinence only does not work per se. The pursuit of righteousness works. Even Gentiles arrived at righteousness while many of the Jewish people missed it, because they were pursuing... law.

The actual real world numbers is evidence that this is nothing more than wishful thinking.

There are endless debates at this forum re: abortion in terms of law. Ironic, since the religious are usually far more interested in righteousness of action and intention.

Yet are still trying to get their self proclaimed "righteousness" made into law....

Sex before marriage is legal but not righteous.

for you perhaps, but then, you are not the end all be all of the population.

Abstinence teaching, combined with righteousness teaching, would accomplish wonders for an entire country, and no, I'm not interested in hearing your anecdotes about non-born again Christians who grew up in "righteousness" than got pregnant out of wedlock. I'm speaking of some will get pregnant out of wedlock, but righteousness can change an entire nation.

The only thing righteousness will do is keep the actual numbers hidden.