Abortion

[viole]

Abstinence only does not work per se. The pursuit of righteousness works. Even Gentiles arrived at righteousness while many of the Jewish people missed it, because they were pursuing... law.

There are endless debates at this forum re: abortion in terms of law. Ironic, since the religious are usually far more interested in righteousness of action and intention.

Sex before marriage is legal but not righteous. Abstinence teaching, combined with righteousness teaching, would accomplish wonders for an entire country, and no, I'm not interested in hearing your anecdotes about non-born again Christians who grew up in "righteousness" than got pregnant out of wedlock. I'm speaking of some will get pregnant out of wedlock, but righteousness can change an entire nation.

And who decides what is righteous and what is not?

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

The actual real world numbers is evidence that this is nothing more than wishful thinking.


Yet are still trying to get their self proclaimed "righteousness" made into law....


for you perhaps, but then, you are not the end all be all of the population.



The only thing righteousness will do is keep the actual numbers hidden.

The only thing righteousness will do is keep the actual numbers hidden.

Why do you say bizarre things like this quote of yours above? This makes no sense.

Righteousness for a whole nation would change the laws, of course.

 

[BilliardsBall]

And who decides what is righteous and what is not?

Ciao

- viole

The word "righteous" has connotations that are not mere moral or ethical. God is righteous. Before you argue further--it is fortunate that innately all persons have some seeds of righteousness within, from God. Otherwise, I could take your statement to mean that if enough people decide so, rape and murder are "righteous". Would you really argue this with me?

Viole, you need to trust Jesus. You're not perfect, I'm not perfect. We both need to trust what He's done via the cross and resurrection.

Thanks.

 

[viole]

The word "righteous" has connotations that are not mere moral or ethical. God is righteous. Before you argue further--it is fortunate that innately all persons have some seeds of righteousness within, from God. Otherwise, I could take your statement to mean that if enough people decide so, rape and murder are "righteous". Would you really argue this with me?

Viole, you need to trust Jesus. You're not perfect, I'm not perfect. We both need to trust what He's done via the cross and resurrection.

Thanks.

I think you need to first show evidence of god, gods, jesuses, etc. before delegating definitions of things, like being righteous, to beings that may very well be figments of your imagination.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

I think you need to first show evidence of god, gods, jesuses, etc. before delegating definitions of things, like being righteous, to beings that may very well be figments of your imagination.

Ciao

- viole

I just showed you evidence--universally, murder is considered unrighteous. You can start there, with the notion of absolutes. Do any absolutes exist?

 

[viole]

I just showed you evidence--universally, murder is considered unrighteous. You can start there, with the notion of absolutes. Do any absolutes exist?

In morality? Nope. Even if we start killing each others to extinction, the Universe will not care the slightest bit.

We would care, but we are not absolutes.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

In morality? Nope. Even if we start killing each others to extinction, the Universe will not care the slightest bit.

We would care, but we are not absolutes.

Ciao

- viole

I didn't ask you if there are absolutes in morality only. Are there any absolutes?

 

[viole]

I didn't ask you if there are absolutes in morality only. Are there any absolutes?

2+2=4 seems to be an absolute.

Am I righteous by believing that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[McBell]

Why do you say bizarre things like this quote of yours above? This makes no sense.

Righteousness for a whole nation would change the laws, of course.

why do you avoid the points?
Makes you look a feared of them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are goalpost shifting with both responses:

1. I was talking about those who specifically deny organ donation, this to draw a parallel, when questioned, with specifically denying abortion "rights".

YOU shifted the goalpost from what we were talking about. I brought us back on topic.

2. Bodily autonomy is absolutely cited by some as their reason for abortion, not just poverty or rape or incest but "I cannot be bothered at this time".

You're confused... or don't know what "bodily autonomy" means. Bodily autonomy refers to the right of a woman to make decisions about her body. It isn't a motivation for anything in and of itself; it speaks to how others should respond to what the woman wants.

 

[BilliardsBall]

2+2=4 seems to be an absolute.

Am I righteous by believing that?

Ciao

- viole

We start with "are there absolutes?" and proceed to the author of those absolutes.

 

[BilliardsBall]

why do you avoid the points?
Makes you look a feared of them.

I don't avoid responding to you--unless I don't understand what you're saying. It would be wrong to respond to you hastily if I don't understand your points.

 

[BilliardsBall]

YOU shifted the goalpost from what we were talking about. I brought us back on topic.


You're confused... or don't know what "bodily autonomy" means. Bodily autonomy refers to the right of a woman to make decisions about her body. It isn't a motivation for anything in and of itself; it speaks to how others should respond to what the woman wants.

Bodily autonomy is the right of a person to their person, yes. Now, name a right other than abortion where "my right to life/body/protection means you MUST die." Self-defense that kills another is saving your life. Most abortions aren't saving the woman's life.

 

[McBell]

I don't avoid responding to you--unless I don't understand what you're saying. It would be wrong to respond to you hastily if I don't understand your points.

And yet your replies consistently avoid the points of the posts you reply to....
It is as though you are scared of having an honest discussion on the topic.

 

[McBell]

Bodily autonomy is the right of a person to their person, yes. Now, name a right other than abortion where "my right to life/body/protection means you MUST die." Self-defense that kills another is saving your life. Most abortions aren't saving the woman's life.

WTF does there not being another situation have to do with the right?

You are grasping at straws.

 

[First Baseman]

And who decides what is righteous and what is not?

Ciao

- viole

I'm glad you asked...

 

[viole]

I'm glad you asked...

I would be glad to have an answer

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

We start with "are there absolutes?" and proceed to the author of those absolutes.

And what makes you think that there is an author of absolutes, if any?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Acim]

And what makes you think that there is an author of absolutes, if any?

Which is why bodily autonomy is not an absolute choice.

 

[Acim]

WTF does there not being another situation have to do with the right?

You are grasping at straws.

How is it grasping at straws? Abortion is the only case where right to life and bodily autonomy meet head on. Therefore 2 rights are seen as at odds with each other, and where some say bodily autonomy wins. Even amongst those, there would be varying disagreements about where it might not win. Thus, a whole lot of gray area, unless one is feeling righteous enough to claim bodily autonomy always wins regardless of the timing for the unborn. Chances are good that person's position will butt up against those who favor bodily autonomy (and abortion in many cases) but are unwilling to say it must always be seen as righteous regardless of timing (i.e. days before birth).

If there were other cases where the two rights meet head on and were as visible, and not pertaining to just one gender of the species, it would probably be a different debate than what we have now. As there are similar ones, it may help. But all those strike me as grasping at straws. Frankly, I don't entertain them in this post because they are grasping in desperation too much. Feel free to bring any up though and we'll see how well they match up on the right to life and right for full body autonomy scale.