Vishvavajra
Active Member
I don't think I'd be casting aspersions on people's education if I were in your position.
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Abortion
- Thread starter Mycroft
- Start date
A human can be traced back to a fertilized egg. The fertilized egg can be traced back to a separate egg and sperm, which can be traced back to the person's parents, who can be traced back in a similar way through the ages. It really isn't that hard a concept to grasp.
Vishvavajra
Active Member
In the minds of the anti-abortion crowd, yes. Yes, they are.
The fallacy of division is absolutely essential to the equating a zygote with a human being. If you take that away from them, what will they have left? Whatever you do, don't bring up the fact that we cast off lots of cells with our full genetic profile every day, some of which could have divided further if we hadn't lost them. It's like a billion tiny abortions.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
In my case she was 18, dirt poor and unmarried. It would have been easier for her if she had aborted me. We're talking a time before roe v wade with extreme stigma on pregnant teenagers. And just because abortion was not yet legal doesn't mean it wasn't an option.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
It is for that reason we have the "Medical Termination of Pregnancy Act". It should not be misused. We have programs for benefit of sex-workers. Their children are given special facilities. There is no ban on use of contraceptive drugs and applications. They are available freely in the market. Sex-workers are not criminals in law. But life should be respected, of the sex-worker as well as that of the fetus. That, IMHO, is the idea.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
With all respect to your mother, there are other ways to handle these things. It is not that India is blind to such situations.
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA
Two shelter homes for destitute pregnant women: Delhi govt | Zee News
You continually try to compare things that are not comparable. The fact is that women make up more than half of the population and as long as that is the case, you have no standing.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
You might want to check out the 3/5ths of a person reference. This was enacted as a hedge against enabling slave states to have more power in Congress. Abolition states did not want the slaves counted for determining the number of Congressmen from the South; slave states wanted the slaves counted as population thus giving them more Congressmen in Washington. The "3/5" law was simply a compromise to be able to keep things peaceful. The law means that slaves were counted as fewer people in any particular Congressional district, it really had nothing to do with the actual humanity of a slave. So, actually, this was a good thing.
I rethought my response to you so let me say this...
I realize this is a hot button issue for you, as it is for me. I respect your opinion although I don't share it, obviously. I will say that it's highly unlikely that roe v wade will be overturned but hey... It's possible I suppose. However, the bottom line is that for now, the law states that the woman gets to choose what she wants, even in the event that the father of the fetus may disagree. You are free to believe that fetal tissue is a 'child' at th point of conception but the law doesn't agree with you. So while I do respect your voice, for now, it's a moot POV.
In this case, we agree. I am firmly opposed to women who continually have children merely to suck money off the governmental teat. Those types, IMO, should be sterilized. I tire of supporting those who are only interested in gaining more welfare. Get a freaking job, or stop popping out children for the sake of more money.There is something we can agree on.
The way I see it, abortion is a new and different moral issue. Sex and reproduction are about the most powerful instinctive behaviors we humans have and they are fraught with emotions. It is very hard to inject any rational thinking into the discussion. The moral codes of yesteryear just don't cut it any more. The circumstances change faster than we can agree upon new moral codes to deal with the moral issues we've already created.
Frankly, I don't care about abortion all that much. I am more concerned about people popping out babies they don't know how to take care of. But just try to argue that sex isn't a human right in freedom loving Western cultures, because it is such a powerful force it needs to be controlled for everybody's benefit.
Tom
In some places, those laws are either disregarded or simply don't apply. Naturally, most civilized people find the practice immoral but there are many things I might see as immoral; the subjugation of women in some countries, but I have no say in their laws or culture or practices. Bottom line is that I knew of some small tribes that still practice this, much to my chagrin in the matter.
Your sarcastic remark does not change what others have seen or heard of. I don't know how well traveled you are but I have traveled extensively as a part of my career, including Africa, Europe, every state in this country, including Alaska, Hawaii, Peurto Rico, and the USVI. And as an aside, I truly wish people here would at least try to remain civil in their discourse.
I wonder, does this apply to the elders in your family or do you do, as so many in this country do, stick them in a nursing home? NA members, at least those of my tribe, don't. It's considered morally reprehensible, much like the opinion held in Japan. I currently care for my mother who has Alzheimer's and there will never be a day that she lives any other place than my home.
I realize it's an unpopular opinion, and not one that can ever come to fruition but that doesn't change that these women should not be allowed to continue to have children merely for more money. It's just my opinion and nothing more, so if it offends you, I apologize. It's just something I feel strongly about.
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I feel strongly about it, too.
And I really think you should answer my question. Is your fertility up for negotiation, too?
Marisa
Well-Known Member
No, it won't. SCOTUS has repeatedly said it will not hear future abortion cases.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
For me, the ultimate solution is one of education. If we want to avoid the idea of abortion altogether (except, maybe, in the case of rape or other events beyond one's control) then we should begin to educate people, from a young age, away from this idea that we should have children in the first place.
Most people have no real reason to have children. It's not an evolutionary drive, it's programmed society: 'grow up, get a job, house, dog, have kids...' People do it because it seems to be the normal, done thing to do. But really, what valid reason is there? There isn't one, beyond ego. So to solve all of these problems, a society should be educated away from the idea that having kids is the 'done' thing.
Most people have no real reason to have children. It's not an evolutionary drive, it's programmed society: 'grow up, get a job, house, dog, have kids...' People do it because it seems to be the normal, done thing to do. But really, what valid reason is there? There isn't one, beyond ego. So to solve all of these problems, a society should be educated away from the idea that having kids is the 'done' thing.