• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Abortion

C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Smart_Guy said:
Some views in Islam say that the soul gets in the growing being in the womb after 4 months.
Click to expand...

Why?
Why four months?

Nothing personal, but I don't believe anything just because some religious people claim that it is true.

I understand that some people put great stock in their religious beliefs. I'm ok with that, until they try to impose them on those of us who do not find them particularly convincing. So you believe RvW is a moral law, because Islam teaches the same thing.
I don't.
Tom
 
Cephus

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
columbus said:
Then there is us non religious people who can't get a rational answer to our concerns and beliefs.
What I get generally qualifies as unsupported assertions, emotional appeals, semantics, and really bad science.

Tom
Click to expand...

But that's exactly the problem when it comes to any religious topics. We ask for evidence for their claims, they have nothing, they just wave their hands and pretend that ought to convince us and can't understand why we don't take what they say seriously. They have no clue what constitutes actual evidence, how critical thinking works and how making credible decisions actually functions because their beliefs have none of those things.
 
Cephus

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
Forever_Catholic said:
And there is empirical evidence, but the effort of going into it would be wasted on a closed mind.
Click to expand...

That's a typical excuse. "I have evidence, but I'm not going to give it to you because you won't believe it anyhow!"

Everyone can see through that load of BS.
 
Forever_Catholic

Forever_Catholic

Active Member
JoStories said:
I have no issue answering any questions you have. To answer the one you did ask, no. I have never and will never forgive my grandfather. However, that said, I have come to an understanding of this owing to my Buddhist path that I had to endure this to learn to be able to handle the issue when a man raped my daughter. Without having lived through the trauma myself, I would not have been able to manage as well as I did with my child. I have peace now and don't blame my grandfather. I know he was one sick individual who was haunted by his own demons. I hope this answers you. And you can ask anything you want. I don't have any problem as honesty is a thing I value dearly. Even here.
Click to expand...
Wow, you and your daughter both have had more than your share of tragedy! I hope neither of you will ever have to suffer any such offense again.

And since you have already taken the first step by acknowledging that your grandfather's crime against you was due to a sick mind, maybe some day you really will forgive him. I hope so, not for his sake, but for yours. No one has ever done anything to me as intensely disgusting as what he did to you, so I could only guess how difficult it would be. I do know that forgiveness is beneficial to the person who forgives, both in the spiritual sense and in the practical effect of eliminating a burden.
 
Forever_Catholic

Forever_Catholic

Active Member
Cephus said:
That's a typical excuse. "I have evidence, but I'm not going to give it to you because you won't believe it anyhow!"

Everyone can see through that load of BS.
Click to expand...
You're pretty good at the BS yourself. Commentary, but no argument. Put some substance in it and disprove what you don't believe.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
columbus said:
We could change that.
It's just a court opinion. Not long ago the court changed USA legal opinion about marriage equality.

It can be done.
Tom
Click to expand...
Sure, the SCOTUS can change it. But, there has to be a valid legal argument, which I have yet to see. I only see moral arguments, which were already considered.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Cephus said:
But that's exactly the problem when it comes to any religious topics.
Click to expand...
How is this relevant to my post?
I am not a religious person. I don't care what any prophet says about anything.
I can't get a rational answer from anybody on this subject.

Including you! I just pointed out that I get really irrational answers like "the fetus isn't alive until s/he draws a breath". And you went straight back to some religious nonsense that I don't believe in.
Tom
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
leibowde84 said:
Sure, the SCOTUS can change it. But, there has to be a valid legal argument, which I have yet to see. I only see moral arguments, which were already considered.
Click to expand...

It is legal for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to sentence Raif Badawi to 1000 lashes and a huge fine.
I don't confuse legal with moral.
Tom
 
Cephus

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
columbus said:
Including you! I just pointed out that I get really irrational answers like "the fetus isn't alive until s/he draws a breath". And you went straight back to some religious nonsense that I don't believe in.
Tom
Click to expand...

I haven't provided any answers to you. You haven't asked me any questions. But sure, I can easily provide an entirely rational answer to that. Humans aren't magically special. We're just smart animals. We get to decide what has rights, since rights are human inventions, and what does not. A fetus has not been decided to have rights. When it has been, that's another matter. Right now that's not true. Let me know when that changes.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Cephus said:
We get to decide what has rights, since rights are human inventions, and what does not.
Click to expand...

Oh!
Human rights are inventions.
No wonder the Crusaders, Genghis Khan, the KKK, and ISIS did what they did. They don't agree with you.
But they are just as human as you are. So "no harm, no foul"?
Tom
 
Cephus

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
columbus said:
Oh!
Human rights are inventions.
No wonder the Crusaders, Genghis Khan, the KKK, and ISIS did what they did. They don't agree with you.
But they are just as human as you are. So "no harm, no foul"?
Tom
Click to expand...

Yes, they are. They vary across time and across space. What is considered moral today will likely be immoral tomorrow. There is no absolute morality, never has been, never will be. You are reacting entirely emotionally, not rationally. 300 years ago, slavery was seen as perfectly fine. Today it is not. 50 years ago, the idea of gay marriage was reprehensible. Today, at least for a growing number of Americans, it is perfectly fine. What ISIS is doing is fine if you ask many radical Muslims. They consider what Christians do to be evil. And if you go to Myanmar, there are Buddhists murdering Muslims because they think Muslims are evil. I'm not sure how you can look at any of these things intellectually and not realize that morality is in the eye of the beholder. We decide on a societal level what will be acceptable and what will not. It isn't magic.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Cephus said:
The law has nothing to do with morality. It would be illegal, it wouldn't mean a thing to morality.
Click to expand...

I agree that the law has little to with morality.
But people keep bringing up "the law" as though it does.
Do you agree that RvW is not moral, regardless of it's legal standing?
Tom
 
Cephus

Cephus

Relentlessly Rational
columbus said:
I agree that the law has little to with morality.
But people keep bringing up "the law" as though it does.
Do you agree that RvW is not moral, regardless of it's legal standing?
Tom
Click to expand...

Nope, I think it's perfectly fine. I can see no non-emotional justification for it not being moral.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top