Abortion

[We Never Know]

You don't get it, do you?
"Swyer syndrome is classified as a disorder of sex development (DSD), which encompasses any disorder in which chromosomal, gonadal or anatomic sex development is abnormal. Girls with Swyer syndrome have an XY chromosomal makeup (as boys normally do) instead of an XX chromosomal makeup (as girls normally do)."
So a woman, which is also XY, can get pregnant with IVF. That's what I wrote. You think it is something else it appears.

Yes I do get it. The example you provided needed medical intervention.and donated parts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes I do get it. The example you provided needed medical intervention.and donated parts.

Yes, an egg. But that is also the case for other cases of IVF. So there is nothing unnatural according to what you used as the standard - IVF.

 

[We Never Know]

Yes, an egg. But that is also the case for other cases of IVF. So there is nothing unnatural according to what you used as the standard - IVF.

With medical help, science and donated parts a lot of things are possible.

I'm pretty sure you know I was talking about naturally happening, naturally occuring which is why you manipulated it to using medical help, science and donated parts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

With medical help, science and donated parts a lot of things are possible.

I'm pretty sure you know I was talking about naturally happening which is why you manipulated it to using medical help, science and donated parts.

You said IVF. That can include a donated egg. If you think anything else was donated please cite your source.

Gee isn't that the point?

Is a biological man that gets fertilized by IVF pregnant? lol

That was your claim and an XY is a biological man and can get pregnant through IVF.

You then admented it later.

 

[We Never Know]

You said IVF. That can include a donated egg. If you think anything else was donated please cite your source.

That was your claim and an XY is a biological man and can get pregnant through IVF.

You then admented it later.

From your own link.

"So how is it possible for people to have both a Y chromosome and a uterus? One possibility is that their Y chromosome lacks what it takes to make a male.

You very well know when I say biological male I am talking about a male through and through, with all male reproductive organs, not genetic defects/errors.

Now you can to on all you like. For me this conversation is over.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

From your own link.

"So how is it possible for people to have both a Y chromosome and a uterus? One possibility is that their Y chromosome lacks what it takes to make a male.

You very well know when I say biological male I am talking about a male through and through, with all male reproductive organs, not genetic defects/errors.

Now you can to on all you like. For me this conversation is over.

I like how you didn't bold this one: "One possibility is that..."
Now if you can show the same for all cases and not just some, you are home.
But no definition of a male as XY I have seen requires that it be complete, only that it be XY and not XX.

Edit: But yes, you have a limited point and so have I. So if I have to try to be fair, it is a draw.

Edit 2: One other poster here claimed that a male is XY and it has nothing to do with the parts. So in effect, it depends. But if you really need it, then okay, you are right.

 

[crossfire]

It looks like you might need a placenta to go with it. Though I could be wrong.

The blastocyst will create its own placenta when it implants. That is what the outer barrier of cells (not the pluripotent stem cells in the interior) of the blastocyst develop into.

 

[Subduction Zone]

With medical and science help a lot of things are possible that wouldn't happen naturally.

As I stated you want to manipulate it. Go beyond naturally occurring. With that we can do lots of things.

Do you realize that some biological males are born with a vagina, a uterus and even fallopian tubes?

 

[crossfire]

Lmfao! Can a bioloigal male get pregnant?
If not, then they have no right for something they can't do.

Does a biological male have the ability to get pregnant?
That needs clarified first before the right to get pregnant.

Question: since when has there been a specific right to get pregnant?
Infertile women are certainly free to get help enhancing their ability to get pregnant, but there is no guarantee that it will happen, and no laws that would be violated if such efforts fail.

On the converse, laws against getting and/or being pregnant would certainly violate a person's basic bodily rights.

Still waiting for an answer to my question of "Since when has there been a specific right to get pregnant?"

 

[We Never Know]

Still waiting for an answer to my question of "Since when has there been a specific right to get pregnant?"

You are several questions behind that you failed to answer.
Answers all those then I will answer yours.
Until then, bye bye.

 

[crossfire]

You are several questions behind that you failed to answer.
Answers all those then I will answer yours.
Until then, bye bye.

Feel free to remind me, like I reminded you. I'll direct you to any answers you directed to me that you might have missed.

 

[GoodAttention]

Not sure if this relevant

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/3-parent-baby-birth-1.3781026

It is only a matter of time a donar ovum accepts a nucleus from an X gamate or sperm.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Touchy topic, I know.

I am making this thread because I would like pro-choicers to help me better understand the pro-choice position.

Progressive society says abortion is ok. I am against abortion. What I mean is I don't think it is a good thing. But I am open to understand why progressive society as well as many people in my life are okay with it. I struggle to fathom it.

@Quintessence said in another thread "forced birth is disgusting no matter how you slice it" and I guess that makes sense. The one thing I am SO GLAD I will never under any circumstances experience is birth. If I was female, I STILL wouldn't give birth. Screw that, I'm not getting torn apart. Birth is absolutely terrifying and the only reason it isn't relatively fatal is because modern technology.

Anyways, can you guys offer me your perspectives on what makes abortion acceptable?

My perspective is that I wouldn't strangle a baby, nor advocate for it. So why would I advocate for abortion?

But I realize now that there is much more nuance to it.

Yet I defy the assertion that it is not human life. If you are going to participate in a conversation on this thread here with me, justify the murder of the unborn human, but do not deny that it is an unborn human. I won't have it in this thread. Help me understand what makes it right to kill those yet born without dehumanizing the victims.

Spoiler: My abortion

I was married to a girl once. Pregnant we got. Schizophrenic I am. Unstable and unmedicated at the time I was. Wife didn't want "her kid coming out like me" (a valid fear of genetically passing on schizo) as well as she didn't want to be stuck with me in her life because of a kid. So she got rid of it despite all of my crying and pleading. Took me years to be even cordial with her again. But I support her decision now. She did what was best for her.

Most distraught I ever was. Years later I still mourn the death of my child. Yet people in my life don't understand. Coworkers congratulated me on the abortion. Therapist was baffled I was sad about it, as it was a "fetus". Friends told me I shouldn't feel bad for I never had a child.

How dare this society take away my right to mourn.

I have accepted that abortion is ok. Not because I think it is ok, but society has told me it is ok. And I am tired of hating society.

I just don't understand why. Why shouldn't I mourn the death of my child? And why is abortion ok?/SPOILER]

It all comes down to the idea that individuals have a right to bodily autonomy. That means that every individual has a right to decide what happens with their own body. The government cannot force you to donate a kidney, even if there's a baby at your local hospital that needs one to survive. Furthermore, the government should not be allowed to force a woman to let a fetus to use her body to sustain it for nine months against her will.

I agree that a fetus, given enough time and the proper conditions has the potential to become an individual human being. But I don't see why that means that this entity that has the potential to become an individual should have more rights than an actual individual. The baby in the hospital that needs a kidney is already an individual, but they don't have a right to another individual's kidney without consent. So why should a collection of sells that only have the potential to become an individual be able to force a woman to use her entire body without consent?

As for mourning the loss of a fetus, I certainly understand. I mourned when my wife had a miscarriage. But with all due respect, I didn't mourn the loss of my child... I mourned the loss of the POTENTIAL child that fetus might have become. Fortunately I've had an actual child since, and I can say without the slightest doubt that if I were to lose one of them it would be infinitely more painful than the fetus lost to a miscarriage.

 

[SkepticThinker]

**** that. Answer my question.

Well lets see... Going from this forum...
Pregnancy and abortion.
-Her body, her choice.
-Show me a biological man than can get pregnant or have an abortion?

That's called bodily autonomy.
It applies to both men and women.

So a biological man has a right to get pregnant and a right to have an abortion? On what planet?

Why do you have to make this so silly every time?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But thank goodness they didn't resort to abortion, eh? What is 7 years of torture-unto-death compared to the horrors of abortion?

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — A mother, grandfather, adult brother and two caregivers in Florida have been charged with the starvation death of a 7-year-old disabled boy who weighed 7 pounds (3.1 kilograms) and had bones poking through his skin when he was found dead on Christmas, officials announced Wednesday.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Touchy topic, I know.

I am making this thread because I would like pro-choicers to help me better understand the pro-choice position.

Progressive society says abortion is ok. I am against abortion. What I mean is I don't think it is a good thing. But I am open to understand why progressive society as well as many people in my life are okay with it. I struggle to fathom it.

@Quintessence said in another thread "forced birth is disgusting no matter how you slice it" and I guess that makes sense. The one thing I am SO GLAD I will never under any circumstances experience is birth. If I was female, I STILL wouldn't give birth. Screw that, I'm not getting torn apart. Birth is absolutely terrifying and the only reason it isn't relatively fatal is because modern technology.

Anyways, can you guys offer me your perspectives on what makes abortion acceptable?

My perspective is that I wouldn't strangle a baby, nor advocate for it. So why would I advocate for abortion?

But I realize now that there is much more nuance to it.

Yet I defy the assertion that it is not human life. If you are going to participate in a conversation on this thread here with me, justify the murder of the unborn human, but do not deny that it is an unborn human. I won't have it in this thread. Help me understand what makes it right to kill those yet born without dehumanizing the victims.

Spoiler: My abortion

I was married to a girl once. Pregnant we got. Schizophrenic I am. Unstable and unmedicated at the time I was. Wife didn't want "her kid coming out like me" (a valid fear of genetically passing on schizo) as well as she didn't want to be stuck with me in her life because of a kid. So she got rid of it despite all of my crying and pleading. Took me years to be even cordial with her again. But I support her decision now. She did what was best for her.

Most distraught I ever was. Years later I still mourn the death of my child. Yet people in my life don't understand. Coworkers congratulated me on the abortion. Therapist was baffled I was sad about it, as it was a "fetus". Friends told me I shouldn't feel bad for I never had a child.

How dare this society take away my right to mourn.

I have accepted that abortion is ok. Not because I think it is ok, but society has told me it is ok. And I am tired of hating society.

I just don't understand why. Why shouldn't I mourn the death of my child? And why is abortion ok?/SPOILER]

I don't know what the status of one's ability to express opinions on abortion is currently, now that roe v wade was overturned

But I can tell you that I am pro birth-control, and I think the world population should go down to about a half billion to a billion. All it would take is for people to just have 1 birth per couple for a few generations. There wouldn't have to be any war. And then, scientists could genetically resurrect mammoths, and the earth would have enough space for them to roam around. I'm not asking you to agree with, nor am I saying I'm right.. but I haven't heard many arguments from anywhere about population regulation / what it should actually be. Growth is the only option, probably according to all societies

As for me, a lot my family were alcoholics that had anger problems, so I don't know how I would raise a kid, if they had the same issues that ran in my family. I turned out pretty calm though, but I still have other issues. If my kid turned out angry, I'd have to get him into sports or something, I don't know if that would work for an outlet. My parents never really got me into that, and I don't even like sports, but I wonder if it has an 'outlet' type benefit for some high school kids.. I don't know. Well, there was track & field, which I quit.

Humans, at different points of their existence, are composed of varying qualities of matter. From birth to death, one's matter combination is very complex. At certain points before you are born, you are a much simpler thing. But if you felt very bad about what happened, I'm not going to judge you for that.