About a deity full of love and compassion

[atanu]

Steam is another form of water.

Yes. Liquid water is as real as the ice. Both are forms however, of water that remains even when forms change.

I don't think i am qualified to properly say what has changed during these transitions. However, i can say that both are real nature.

What? The nature of a thing/person more real than the person/subject?

In other words, you do not know for certain.

Yes.To say that the Seer is seen and known is ignorance. And to say that the Seer is not known is ignorance.

 

[atanu]

The OP is about a deity full of love and compassion… so Tarasan, or anyone else, would you agree that there is not a speck of (scientific) evidence that God has any compassion or love at all?

What? Do you have evidence of God?

 

[Skeptisch]

What? Do you have evidence of God?

Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein - considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws.

Carl Sagan:
“If by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

 

[atanu]

Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein - considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws.

Carl Sagan:
“If by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."

Compassion is in everyone. It will be indescribable madness to deny oneself and look for compassion elsewhere. Law is not God but knower of law is.

Spinoza
Hatred is sorrow with the accompanying idea of an external cause.
Compassion is love in so far as it affects a man so that he is glad at the prosperity of another person and is sad when any evil happens to him.

 

[Koldo]

Yes. Liquid water is as real as the ice. Both are forms however, of water that remains even when forms change.

And your point is?

What? The nature of a thing/person more real than the person/subject?

As real. Not more, not less.

 

[atanu]

And your point is?

As real. Not more, not less.

My point is that noumenon gives rise to phenomenom and not the other way around. To use an example, Gold exists as many designs such as bangles, chains, rings, coins, bricks -- but Gold exists irrespective of the designs.

 

[Koldo]

My point is that noumenon gives rise to phenomenom and not the other way around. To use an example, Gold exists as many designs such as bangles, chains, rings, coins, bricks -- but God exists irrespective of the designs.

It depends on what you mean by 'God', and what constitutes existence.

 

[Willamena]

It depends on what you mean by 'God', and what constitutes existence.

Well, the latter is simple. Whatever we can refer to with the verb "is" exists.

 

[Koldo]

Well, the latter is simple. Whatever we can refer to with the verb "is" exists.

Does 'Spider-man' exist?

No.....and yes.

 

[atanu]

It depends on what you mean by 'God', and what constitutes existence.

God is mischievous.

I meant Gold and I have corrected in post 486.

 

[Koldo]

God is mischievous.

I meant Gold and I have corrected in post 486.

Ah
I had clicked in 'quote' before you editted it.

So, let us continue.
I am following your point, but how is it related to the OP?

 

[Willamena]

Does 'Spider-man' exist?

No.....and yes.

'Spider-man' is a comic book character.

 

[atanu]

Ah
I am following your point, but how is it related to the OP?

Now that we seem to agree that noumenon is primary we can move ahead.

OP cited Spinoza and I will also:

Spinoza
Hatred is sorrow with the accompanying idea of an external cause.
Compassion is love in so far as it affects a man so that he is glad at the prosperity of another person and is sad (sorrowness) when any evil happens to him.

One can find evidence of both the above in this thread -- we see sorrow in two colours in this thread, viz. in the form of hatred of some imaginary God and compassion for the sufferers. IMO, these two gems from Spinoza summarise the issue.

However, why the same sorrow has two faces? We are taught that it is the ignorance of oneself. Suppose, you see a shadow ahead of you running away from you. Then following that shadow, you stumble upon a dead body. Now, you think that shadow was of Mr. XYZ and that that MR. XYZ was the murderer.

That shadow was however your shadow.
.................

In summary, associating 'me' with a changeful body mind and clinging to that false notion throughout our lives, we succumb to converting compassion to hatred.

 

[MountainGuardian]

You as I are a sentient being, you have a mind and a will, your body has a set prameters, within which it operates. Do you have a love or a concern for the cells of your body, even though you do not directly control them with conscious thought? If some of your cells step outside of this natural parameter, do they get destroyed by your bodys immune system? Does this mean you have any less concern for your body, or that it is less important to you, or that you love it any less?

Tsunamis have happened to Japan for untold millenia, this is simply one of the parameters of this planet. God did not build a nuclear plant there, men did that, God did not fail to take into account the full force of a Tsunami event upon that reactor, men did that. It is not God needing to have huge amounts of electricity for industry to supply men with what they want.

When you build a nuclear reactor in a Tsunami zone and do not protect it, this is the natural consequence, when you add 1+1 and it equals 2 it is not Gods fault that it equals 2, it is Gods design from the beginning, that it equals 2.

It is by Gods design that we serve him, not ourselves, and it is by Gods design that God serve us, when we step outside of Gods design there are consequences.

Not one of us should have any illusions in this day and age about the dangers and weaknesses of nuclear power, but we are all very quick to overlook this in the name of having the things that we want... There is a natural consequence for this choice... and it has nothing to do with God forcing us to this choice, or God punishing us for this choice, it is simply 1+1 equaling 2 by the the original design.

I would hope that everyone would keep the people of Japan in their prays, and learn from the bravery and seflessness that has been shown by so many of the Japanese people.

 

[atanu]

You as I are a sentient being, you have a mind and a will, your body has a set prameters, within which it operates. Do you have a love or a concern for the cells of your body, even though you do not directly control them with conscious thought? If some of your cells step outside of this natural parameter, do they get destroyed by your bodys immune system? Does this mean you have any less concern for your body, or that it is less important to you, or that you love it any less?

Tsunamis have happened to Japan for untold millenia, this is simply one of the parameters of this planet. God did not build a nuclear plant there, men did that, God did not fail to take into account the full force of a Tsunami event upon that reactor, men did that. It is not God needing to have huge amounts of electricity for industry to supply men with what they want.

When you build a nuclear reactor in a Tsunami zone and do not protect it, this is the natural consequence, when you add 1+1 and it equals 2 it is not Gods fault that it equals 2, it is Gods design from the beginning, that it equals 2.

It is by Gods design that we serve him, not ourselves, and it is by Gods design that God serve us, when we step outside of Gods design there are consequences.

Not one of us should have any illusions in this day and age about the dangers and weaknesses of nuclear power, but we are all very quick to overlook this in the name of having the things that we want... There is a natural consequence for this choice... and it has nothing to do with God forcing us to this choice, or God punishing us for this choice, it is simply 1+1 equaling 2 by the the original design.

I would hope that everyone would keep the people of Japan in their prays, and learn from the bravery and seflessness that has been shown by so many of the Japanese people.

Allow me to say that this dualistic idea of God as mere a designer who has created servants and who is also omniscient and omnipotent leads one to question His intentions.

 

[Koldo]

'Spider-man' is a comic book character.

Is that how you wanna frame him?

Why is it I can see him in movies too?
Isn't he just a comic book character?

He is a concept. The question of existence depends on the context.

 

[Koldo]

Now that we seem to agree that noumenon is primary we can move ahead.

OP cited Spinoza and I will also:

One can find evidence of both the above in this thread -- we see sorrow in two colours in this thread, viz. in the form of hatred of some imaginary God and compassion for the sufferers. IMO, these two gems from Spinoza summarise the issue.

However, why the same sorrow has two faces? We are taught that it is the ignorance of oneself. Suppose, you see a shadow ahead of you running away from you. Then following that shadow, you stumble upon a dead body. Now, you think that shadow was of Mr. XYZ and that that MR. XYZ was the murderer.

That shadow was however your shadow.
.................

In summary, associating 'me' with a changeful body mind and clinging to that false notion throughout our lives, we succumb to converting compassion to hatred.

For a first, i would like to ask how this is associated with hatred at all?
To make the question in the OP all you need to do is make use of logical thinking. I don't need to feel hatred to do it.

Second, in my opinion, when you label one side of sorrow as 'wrong' you are are not improving the situation. You will not get anywhere. In my opinion, it would be better to understand that each side of the coin has its proper use, and what we do have to do, and can do, is to use those sides properly.

 

[atanu]

For a first, i would like to ask how this is associated with hatred at all?
To make the question in the OP all you need to do is make use of logical thinking. I don't need to feel hatred to do it.

Use any other word.

Second, in my opinion, when you label one side of sorrow as 'wrong' you are are not improving the situation. You will not get anywhere. In my opinion, it would be better to understand that each side of the coin has its proper use, and what we do have to do, and can do, is to use those sides properly.

I am not labelling anything as right or wrong.

What I am saying is that in addition to seeing the two sides of the coin as they are, also see the material on which these two sides exist.

 

[Koldo]

Use any other word.

I am not using 'hatred' and 'logical thinking' as synonyms.
The question still remains.

I am not labelling anything as right or wrong.

What I am saying is that in addition to seeing the two sides of the coin as they are, also see the material on which these two sides exist.

Ah. And how will that change the perspective of the situation in the OP?

 

[atanu]

I am not using 'hatred' and 'logical thinking' as synonyms.
The question still remains.

Ah. And how will that change the perspective of the situation in the OP?

I humbly request you to re-read whatever has been written. When the primeval material as known one's self, how can any blame be passed on elsewhere? And putting the blame elsewhere even unknowingly actually is blaming oneself.