About fossils -- would you say this is true?

[Little Nipper]

Just say "last thursdayism"

Or, "embedded age"

Toss in "god, the deceiver" if you
want to be wordy.

GOD doesn't deceive. Satan deceives, and entices man to believe that Creation had to be a "natural process" which is a lie. GOD honestly, presented HIS creation epic in HIS Word. Satan deceives and entices man to believe this is merely myth and not to be accepted. JESUS CHRIST, the SON of HIS FATHER regarded both NOAH and the FLOOD event as absolutely real. Satan deceives and entices man to believe that the FLOOD was not a single event but occurred as multiple events over hundreds of millions of years ago. GOD presents the truth, while Satan redefines truth to suit man's expectations and place man's considerations as superior to GOD's revelation.

What was Satan's first lie to man? “ ‘You will not surely die,’ the serpent said to the woman. ‘For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’ ” Genesis 3:2–5. And man has been playing the fool ever since. In essence Satan said, "Don't listen to GOD, because HE's holding out on you and doesn't know what HE's talking about. GOD doesn't want YOU to be like HIM! Trust me."

The earth is clearly at least 6 thousand years old, and that wasn't "last Thursdayism" in the least. HOWEVER, such is unfathomable for someone who defines the Universe as a place where GOD doesn't exist and man knows it all.

 

[YoursTrue]

Oh goodness. Here goes from my layman's knowledge.

So you know that matter is made of atoms, yes? And atoms, in turn, are made of protons, neutrons, and electrons, yes? Are you with me? Let me know, because that's essential.

If you're with me, keep reading.

Certain atoms are what we call radioactive, which means their nuclei (made of the protons and neutrons I mentioned before) are unstable and thus eject parts of themselves (smaller particles made of protons and neutrons) until the nucleus is stable.

The whole premise of radiometric dating is that we can measure the rate at which that process happens. That process is called radioactive decay. So when it refers to "mother and daughter isotopes," it's referring to those atoms before and after the decay happens. If we know the ratio of mother isotopes and daughter isotopes, we can tell how long the stuff we're measuring has been decaying. If there's lots of daughter isotopes, it's older. If there's fewer, it's younger.

Does that make sense?

That's an incredibly simplified version and I apologize to everyone for what was probably an overly simplistic explanation, lol.

What are atoms made of?

 

[Subduction Zone]

GOD doesn't deceive. Satan deceives, and entices man to believe that Creation had to be a "natural process" which is a lie. GOD honestly, presented HIS creation epic in HIS Word. Satan deceives and entices man to believe this is merely myth and not to be accepted. JESUS CHRIST, the SON of HIS FATHER regarded both NOAH and the FLOOD event as absolutely real. Satan deceives and entices man to believe that the FLOOD was not a single event but occurred as multiple events over hundreds of millions of years ago. GOD presents the truth, while Satan redefines truth to suit man's expectations and place man's considerations as superior to GOD's revelation.

The earth is clearly at least 6 thousand years old, and that wasn't "last Thursdayism" in the least. HOWEVER, such is unfathomable for someone who defines the Universe as a place where GOD doesn't exist and man knows it all.

You can't have it both ways. The evidence for evolution is everywhere. There is no evidence for the creation myth. The evidence for evolution is even within our genes.

So once again you are calling God a liar. Most Christians worldwide do not belief the myths of Genesis largely because they do not believe that God is a liar.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What are atoms made of?

Why are you asking this rather pointless question? If you can tell me your purpose I can tell you what atoms are made of.

 

[YoursTrue]

This may have nothing to do with this topic; however, it may clarify what I believe and why I feel this way. As a Christian, I clearly believe GOD created everything. I wasn't there to watch how GOD created, but I firmly believe GOD correctly explained the order in which HE created and the time HE spent creating.

Now, one thing seem obvious to me is that when GOD created Adam a grown man --- he was not a baby. Adam could speak, and garden, and eat fruit he picked himself and give names to the animals GOD created ---- so that means Adam was thoughtful. What does this tell anyone willing to think in terms of GOD and creation? GOD created quickly and as a finished product. Adam likely appeared to be a perfectly healthy man of say 30. The implication is that GOD likely created mature trees, mature animals, and a mature ecological system, mature star systems, etc., etc., etc...

What this emphatically implies is that even minerals, metals and rocks were all at a stage of necessary completeness. Now, from a creationist standing point, that means that when the FLOOD happened, any bodies which were cover and impregnated with minerals, etc., (that someone who should technically know better) would instill an investigative appearance of perhaps millions of years, when in fact everything was being misread.

You make a good point. God didn't have trials to figure which creations would work out and which wouldn't as if He needed to improve on them.

 

[Polymath257]

What are atoms made of?

That was literally answered in the post you quoted.

 

[We Never Know]

That was literally answered in the post you quoted.

Speaking of atoms.... Are both or either true?

I once read..

1.If you were to remove all of the empty space from the atoms that make up every human on Earth, the entire world population could fit into an apple

2. There are even more possible variations of chess games than there are atoms in the observable universe

 

[Little Nipper]

You can't have it both ways. The evidence for evolution is everywhere. There is no evidence for the creation myth. The evidence for evolution is even within our genes.

So once again you are calling God a liar. Most Christians worldwide do not belief the myths of Genesis largely because they do not believe that God is a liar.

There exists only evidence for adaptation of a species. There is no evidence for one species developing into that of another on its own as a natural process. Specialization does happen in some instances and man has bred both plants and animals in an effort to make them more productive, look better, etc... However, there has never occurred a species crossover. All specialization remains within the original species. I don't care what you believe nor what you think most Christians believe. You're calling both Christians and GOD a liar, not me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Speaking of atoms.... Are both or either true?

I once read..

1.If you were to remove all of the empty space from the atoms that make up every human on Earth, the entire world population could fit into an apple

2. There are even more possible variations of chess games than there are atoms in the observable universe

The first sounds likely. Protons and neutrons are very small. The latest estimate is a radius of 0.831 femtometers for protons.

About fossils -- would you say this is true?

Just say "last thursdayism" Or, "embedded age" Toss in "god, the deceiver" if you want to be wordy. GOD doesn't deceive. Satan deceives, and entices man to believe that Creation had to be a "natural process" which is a lie. GOD honestly, presented HIS creation epic in HIS Word. Satan...

www.religiousforums.com

The size of a neutron is about the same. This site uses the diameter so at first I thought that "twice as big is not the same size"

4.4: The Properties of Protons, Neutrons, and Electrons

Electrons are extremely small. The mass of an electron is only about 1/2000 the mass of a proton or neutron, so electrons contribute virtually nothing to the total mass of an atom. Electrons have an …

chem.libretexts.org

So a diameter of 1.7*10^-15 meters. Let's take the size of an oxygen atom in comparison. It is 7.4*10^-11 meters in diameter. About 4,000 times larger than a single proton. But volume is related to the cube of the diameter or the radius so that is 8*10^13 the volume. Yeah, an apple sounds to be about right.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There exists only evidence for adaptation of a species. There is no evidence for one species developing into that of another on its own as a natural process. Specialization does happen in some instances and man has bred both plants and animals in an effort to make them more productive, look better, etc... However, there has never occurred a species crossover. All specialization remains within the original species. I don't care what you believe nor what you think most Christians believe. You're calling both Christians and GOD a liar, not me.

That is not true. Now you have just demonstrated that you do not understand the concept of evidence. Are you willing to learn as to what is and what is not evidence? You need to start somewhere and that is very good place to start.

You are also using nonsensical terms that are simply wrong. Evolution does not work that way. There is no "change of kind" in evolution. You for example, are still an ape. That is if you claim to be a human being. All human beings are Great Apes. Which are also part of the general family of apes. Speciation is just a split between populations. At one time in the past we were part of the same population as chimpanzees and bonobos.

But there is no point into going into the evidence until you understand what is and what is not evidence.

 

[Audie]

GOD doesn't deceive. Satan deceives, and entices man to believe that Creation had to be a "natural process" which is a lie. GOD honestly, presented HIS creation epic in HIS Word. Satan deceives and entices man to believe this is merely myth and not to be accepted. JESUS CHRIST, the SON of HIS FATHER regarded both NOAH and the FLOOD event as absolutely real. Satan deceives and entices man to believe that the FLOOD was not a single event but occurred as multiple events over hundreds of millions of years ago. GOD presents the truth, while Satan redefines truth to suit man's expectations and place man's considerations as superior to GOD's revelation.

What was Satan's first lie to man? “ ‘You will not surely die,’ the serpent said to the woman. ‘For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’ ” Genesis 3:2–5. And man has been playing the fool ever since. In essence Satan said, "Don't listen to GOD, because HE's holding out on you and doesn't know what HE's talking about. GOD doesn't want YOU to be like HIM! Trust me."

The earth is clearly at least 6 thousand years old, and that wasn't "last Thursdayism" in the least. HOWEVER, such is unfathomable for someone who defines the Universe as a place where GOD doesn't exist and man knows it all.

OK bye lah.

 

[Polymath257]

Speaking of atoms.... Are both or either true?

I once read..

1.If you were to remove all of the empty space from the atoms that make up every human on Earth, the entire world population could fit into an apple

Let's do a ballpark estimate. There are about 8 billion people on Earth. Let's say an average mass of 100 kg. That gives 8*10^11 kg. Each nucleon (proton or neutron) has a mass of about 1.6*10^(-27) kg. Dividing, we find that there are about 5*10^38 nucleons (electrons have a very small mass and can be neglected in this approximation).

Now, volume goes as the cube of radius, so a collection of 5*10^38 nucleons will have a radius about the cube root, so about 8*10^12 the radius of a single nucleon, which is about 1 femtometer (10^(-15) m). That would give a radius for the collapsed people of about 8*10^(-3) m, so about 8 millimeters.

This is a very small apple, more like a crab apple.

By the way, a black hole the mass of the Earth would have a radius of about a centimeter and a half (so a diameter just a bit over an inch).

2. There are even more possible variations of chess games than there are atoms in the observable universe

Well, the estimate of the number of atoms in the observable universe is around 10^79. Claude Shannon (yes, that Claude Shannon) made a calculation for a *lower* bound on the number of possible chess games at 10^120, which is considerably larger than the number of atoms in the observable universe. An upper bound on the number of possible chess positions is 5*10^52.

Shannon number - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[We Never Know]

Let's do a ballpark estimate. There are about 8 billion people on Earth. Let's say an average mass of 100 kg. That gives 8*10^11 kg. Each nucleon (proton or neutron) has a mass of about 1.6*10^(-27) kg. Dividing, we find that there are about 5*10^38 nucleons (electrons have a very small mass and can be neglected in this approximation).

Now, volume goes as the cube of radius, so a collection of 5*10^38 nucleons will have a radius about the cube root, so about 8*10^12 the radius of a single nucleon, which is about 1 femtometer (10^(-15) m). That would give a radius for the collapsed people of about 8*10^(-3) m, so about 8 millimeters.

This is a very small apple, more like a crab apple.

By the way, a black hole the mass of the Earth would have a radius of about a centimeter and a half (so a diameter just a bit over an inch).

Well, the estimate of the number of atoms in the observable universe is around 10^79. Claude Shannon (yes, that Claude Shannon) made a calculation for a *lower* bound on the number of possible chess games at 10^120, which is considerably larger than the number of atoms in the observable universe. An upper bound on the number of possible chess positions is 5*10^52.

Shannon number - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yep that was the person.

Thats all hard to phathom being..

• It would take a stack of about 50,000 aluminum atoms to equal the thickness of a sheet of aluminum foil from your kitchen.
• An average human hair is about 1 million carbon atoms wide.
• A typical human cell contains roughly 1 trillion atoms.
• A speck of dust might contain 3x1012 (3 trillion) atoms.
• It would take you around 500 years to count the number of atoms in a grain of salt.

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/atomic

 

[Polymath257]

There exists only evidence for adaptation of a species. There is no evidence for one species developing into that of another on its own as a natural process. Specialization does happen in some instances and man has bred both plants and animals in an effort to make them more productive, look better, etc... However, there has never occurred a species crossover. All specialization remains within the original species. I don't care what you believe nor what you think most Christians believe. You're calling both Christians and GOD a liar, not me.

First of all, this is wrong. For example, if you look at the fossil record from 50 million years ago, you will find no modern species of mammals. None.

Now, either all modern species were created after that point OR he species that did exist 50 million years ago developed naturally from those.

But, if you look at the fossil record from 10 million years ago, you will find many species that are very similar to modern ones, and a (very) few that are the same. They are also different than those from 50 million years ago. So, either most of the modern species were created new since that time OR those that did exist 10 million years ago developed into those today. Given the similarities, it is far more reasonable to assume the latter.

But now, let's go back 20 million ago. Guess what? The species were more different than modern species than those from 10 million years ago, and also different than those from 50 million years ago.

Now, what we (often) do not know is the *specific* lineage of the more recent or modern mammals from the more ancient ones. But we can see how the species around changed over time, with species closer together in time being more similar and those farther away in time less so.

And that *is* evidence that species developed into new species over many generations.

 

[Polymath257]

Yep that was the person.

Thats all hard to phathom being..

• It would take a stack of about 50,000 aluminum atoms to equal the thickness of a sheet of aluminum foil from your kitchen.
• An average human hair is about 1 million carbon atoms wide.
• A typical human cell contains roughly 1 trillion atoms.
• A speck of dust might contain 3x1012 (3 trillion) atoms.
• It would take you around 500 years to count the number of atoms in a grain of salt.

https://www.twinkl.com/teaching-wiki/atomic

Yes, atoms are small. This is why it took to the 20th century to detect quantum effects.

I think the amount of time to count the atoms in a grain of salt is under-estimated.

 

[shunyadragon]

This may have nothing to do with this topic; however, it may clarify what I believe and why I feel this way. As a Christian, I clearly believe GOD created everything. I wasn't there to watch how GOD created, but I firmly believe GOD correctly explained the order in which HE created and the time HE spent creating.

Now, one thing seems obvious to me is that when GOD created Adam a grown man --- he was not a baby. Adam could speak, and garden, and eat fruit he picked himself and give names to the animals GOD created ---- so that means Adam was thoughtful. What does this tell anyone willing to think in terms of GOD and creation? GOD created quickly and as a finished product. Adam likely appeared to be a perfectly healthy man of say 30. The implication is that GOD likely created mature trees, mature animals, and a mature ecological system, mature star systems, etc., etc., etc...

What this emphatically implies is that even minerals, metals and rocks were all at a stage of necessary completeness. Now, from a creationist standing point, that means that when the FLOOD happened, any bodies which were cover and impregnated with minerals, etc., (that someone who should technically know better) would instill an investigative appearance of perhaps millions of years, when in fact everything was being misread.

Claiming 'the appearance of age' in the geologic evidence concludes God Created false evidence for humans to discover. Kind of accusing God of being dishonest

 

[Valjean]

This may have nothing to do with this topic; however, it may clarify what I believe and why I feel this way. As a Christian, I clearly believe GOD created everything. I wasn't there to watch how GOD created, but I firmly believe GOD correctly explained the order in which HE created and the time HE spent creating.

Now, one thing seems obvious to me is that when GOD created Adam a grown man --- he was not a baby. Adam could speak, and garden, and eat fruit he picked himself and give names to the animals GOD created ---- so that means Adam was thoughtful. What does this tell anyone willing to think in terms of GOD and creation? GOD created quickly and as a finished product. Adam likely appeared to be a perfectly healthy man of say 30. The implication is that GOD likely created mature trees, mature animals, and a mature ecological system, mature star systems, etc., etc., etc...

What this emphatically implies is that even minerals, metals and rocks were all at a stage of necessary completeness. Now, from a creationist standing point, that means that when the FLOOD happened, any bodies which were cover and impregnated with minerals, etc., (that someone who should technically know better) would instill an investigative appearance of perhaps millions of years, when in fact everything was being misread.

Would anyone believe such a fantastic yarn if it were reported today?
Why would you believe such an implausible folk tale, with no evidence, if it were not downloaded long before the age of reason or critical thinking?

How does it differ, epistemically, from the creation myths of the Aztecs or Trobriand islanders, or the Chronicles of Narnia, for that matter? What makes it more believable than any other creation myth?

 

[Valjean]

GOD doesn't deceive. Satan deceives, and entices man to believe that Creation had to be a "natural process" which is a lie. GOD honestly, presented HIS creation epic in HIS Word. Satan deceives and entices man to believe this is merely myth and not to be accepted. JESUS CHRIST, the SON of HIS FATHER regarded both NOAH and the FLOOD event as absolutely real. Satan deceives and entices man to believe that the FLOOD was not a single event but occurred as multiple events over hundreds of millions of years ago. GOD presents the truth, while Satan redefines truth to suit man's expectations and place man's considerations as superior to GOD's revelation.

What was Satan's first lie to man? “ ‘You will not surely die,’ the serpent said to the woman. ‘For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’ ” Genesis 3:2–5. And man has been playing the fool ever since. In essence Satan said, "Don't listen to GOD, because HE's holding out on you and doesn't know what HE's talking about. GOD doesn't want YOU to be like HIM! Trust me."

The earth is clearly at least 6 thousand years old, and that wasn't "last Thursdayism" in the least. HOWEVER, such is unfathomable for someone who defines the Universe as a place where GOD doesn't exist and man knows it all.

None of this is "clear," unless you're using the term in a very odd sense. How are you, personally, judging clarity?
All objective evidence disputes this account. What evidence convinced you of this?

 

[Valjean]

What are atoms made of?

Quarks.
What's your point?

 

[Valjean]

There exists only evidence for adaptation of a species. There is no evidence for one species developing into that of another on its own as a natural process.

What is the difference between adaptation and evolution, then, if not number or location of change? Isn't evolution just accumulated adaptation?
How does a species know when to stop adapting, so as to avoid generating a new species?

Specialization does happen in some instances and man has bred both plants and animals in an effort to make them more productive, look better, etc... However, there has never occurred a species crossover. All specialization remains within the original species. I don't care what you believe nor what you think most Christians believe. You're calling both Christians and GOD a liar, not me.

This is simply false. You've been misinformed.

There are volumes of evidence for speciation, from a dozen or more disciplines. We understand and have observed the mechanisms. We've observed the process. We've observed speciation within historical memory

What you're claiming is magic. You're claiming it's more reasonable to believe in magic than in science, evidence or your own observations.
If you want evidence I'm sure any of us rational people could provide links a-plenty.