About that Gaza flotilla...

[croak]

But without British and French opposition to the Ottomans they would in all probability still be there . But ifs and buts are not much help.

The empire had fallen. I'm quite sure the people would have been able to revolt just fine, not to mention that the priority was Turkey, not the rest of the territory.

I know they aren't; it was more along the lines of a rhetorical question or hypothetical musings.

But they have havnt they? i mean what's with all the Arab states? arnt they still deciding what they want now?

The Arab states were carved up by the British and French. It is almost guaranteed that the boundaries would be different; they might have even have united under a caliphate, for all I know.

Sometimes it's fun to consider the possibilities. Won't change anything, though.

 

[kai]

The empire had fallen. I'm quite sure the people would have been able to revolt just fine, not to mention that the priority was Turkey, not the rest of the territory. TThe Empire would not have fallen at least not at that time if not for Ottoman involvement in the first world war against Britain and france without that involvement Britain and France would not have been there.

I know they aren't; it was more along the lines of a rhetorical question or hypothetical musings.


The Arab states were carved up by the British and French. It is almost guaranteed that the boundaries would be different; they might have even have united under a caliphate, for all I know. The Caliph was Ottoman though!

Sometimes it's fun to consider the possibilities. Won't change anything, though.

Its interesting to speculate how things would have turned out if the Ottomans stayed out of the war.

 

[croak]

The Empire would not have fallen at least not at that time if not for Ottoman involvement in the first world war against Britain and france without that involvement Britain and France would not have been there.

I realize that. I'm thinking about a very specific hypothetical situation where, after the defeat of the Ottomans, the British and French didn't feel the need to mandate the Middle East and instead left the populations to sort it out amongst themselves. At the very least, the boundaries of countries would be different.

The Caliph was Ottoman though!

The Ottoman Empire was a caliphate? Huh, it even lasted until 1924. I didn't know that.

Its interesting to speculate how things would have turned out if the Ottomans stayed out of the war.

That's another interesting speculation, yes.

 

[kai]

This might be of interest

Mehmed V1 as the last caliph.


First World War.com - Who's Who - Sultan Mehmed VI

 

[England my lionheart]

This might be of interest

Mehmed V1 as the last caliph.


First World War.com - Who's Who - Sultan Mehmed VI

This was an amazing and terrible era,Amin Al Husseini the soon to be Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was in the Turkish Army that wiped out 1.5 million Armenians,he then went on to start the Palestine Israel conflict and had the same plans for the Jews and became a central member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Husseini was also an ally to Nazi Germany and lived in Berlin during WW2,he also had his own SS Muslim Handjar Division which did some nasty things in the Balkans.

At this time Eugenics was a big deal in Europe and America which the Nazi's took to its absolute extreme,during this period Adolf Hitler joined the DAP the forerunner of the Nazi party, we know what happened next.

Also at this time a young Hasan Al Banna the Father of the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamism which produced Sayyid Qutb,the MB's goal is still the same today,global domination which has been its aim since hijacking Islam.

Whatever the Muslim Brotherhood does it always seems to mean someone dying as can be seen by their motto “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope” ,well at least 9 of the passengers on the flotillas hopes were fulfilled.

 

[arimoff]

This was an amazing and terrible era,Amin Al Husseini the soon to be Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was in the Turkish Army that wiped out 1.5 million Armenians,he then went on to start the Palestine Israel conflict and had the same plans for the Jews and became a central member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
Husseini was also an ally to Nazi Germany and lived in Berlin during WW2,he also had his own SS Muslim Handjar Division which did some nasty things in the Balkans.

At this time Eugenics was a big deal in Europe and America which the Nazi's took to its absolute extreme,during this period Adolf Hitler joined the DAP the forerunner of the Nazi party, we know what happened next.

Also at this time a young Hasan Al Banna the Father of the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamism which produced Sayyid Qutb,the MB's goal is still the same today,global domination which has been its aim since hijacking Islam.

Whatever the Muslim Brotherhood does it always seems to mean someone dying as can be seen by their motto “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope” ,well at least 9 of the passengers on the flotillas hopes were fulfilled.

By the way 1.5 million Amrnenians are still not recognized by Turkey but yet it so honestly defends the lives of Muslims in Gaza.

 

[croak]

Whatever the Muslim Brotherhood does it always seems to mean someone dying as can be seen by their motto “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope” ,well at least 9 of the passengers on the flotillas hopes were fulfilled.

That's assuming the nine who died were all of the same mind.

 

[Bismillah]

By the way 1.5 million Amrnenians are still not recognized by Turkey but yet it so honestly defends the lives of Muslims in Gaza.

By the way Israel eagerly sides with Turkey on the issue.

 

[England my lionheart]

That's assuming the nine who died were all of the same mind.

OK fair enough,i should have said they got what the MB wanted

 

[England my lionheart]

By the way 1.5 million Amrnenians are still not recognized by Turkey but yet it so honestly defends the lives of Muslims in Gaza.

They don't recognize Kurds either

 

[Smoke]

By the way Israel eagerly sides with Turkey on the issue.

I don't know if I'd say "eagerly." Israel, like the US, declines to use the word "genocide" precisely because of Turkish pressure.

 

[Bismillah]

I don't know if I'd say "eagerly." Israel, like the US, declines to use the word "genocide" precisely because of Turkish pressure.

I'm not sure but I always thought before this incident Turkey and Israel got along like two peas in a pod.

Either way his argument blows up in his face.

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you sure about Turkey and Israel? Turkey is Muslim, Israel definitely isn't. Turkey (and, for our great shame, Brazil) were the only two countries to support Iran a few months ago at the UNO on some matter regarding nuclear ore.

Out of the top of my mind, I can't think of a reason to assume that Israel and Turkey have any significant afinity of interests.

 

[Caladan]

Are you sure about Turkey and Israel? Turkey is Muslim, Israel definitely isn't. Turkey (and, for our great shame, Brazil) were the only two countries to support Iran a few months ago at the UNO on some matter regarding nuclear ore.

Out of the top of my mind, I can't think of a reason to assume that Israel and Turkey have any significant afinity of interests.

I'm pretty shocked by the ignorance presented in this thread on the subject, Turkey and Israel were allies publicly until some of the events of recent years. the Turkish and Israeli military conducted joint military exercises, and don't be fooled by the current Turkish rhetoric of the politicians, while the current politicians in Turkey present a more Islamic line of thought, the Turkish military is de facto the guardian of Turkish secularism (of the elite of course), just a month or less before the flotilla incident and the hysterical Turkish rhetoric in reaction to it, the Turks signed a huge multi billion dollars deal with Israel in which Israel upgraded hundreds of Turkish tanks, which were previously bought in another deal from Israel.
the Islamic leaning politicians in Turkey, while appeasing the state of mind on the 'Muslim street', ergo obsessing over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the Turkish armed forces have still been dealing closely with the Israelis while being handicapped by the government.
its also important to remember, that while Erdogan criticizes Israel for its show of force against the Palestinians, the military of the nation his running uses Israeli made weapons to kill and fight the Kurds.

 

[LuisDantas]

That still falls rather short as support for the claims made, IMO.

 

[Caladan]

That still falls rather short as support for the claims made, IMO.

Pay attention to your own posts:

Out of the top of my mind, I can't think of a reason to assume that Israel and Turkey have any significant afinity of interests.

Turkey and Israel have had a myriad of joint interests for a while now.

 

[Bismillah]

That still falls rather short as support for the claims made, IMO.

Turkey is the only long term friend of Israel in the Middle East. When push comes to shove, neither will ever endanger their relations with each other. This includes respecting the intentions of one country denying the existence of genocide.