Abrahamic Faith vs Culture

[Godobeyer]

How much of the Abrahamic faith is infulenced by the cultures of the Jewish and Arab peoples? Should the faith be separate from the culture? What happens when the faith takes on the aspects of other cultures? Does the fact that the Abrahamic faith has crossed so many cultural bounderies make it superior to other faiths? Is that why older pagan religions died out? What do you think the future culture of the Abrahamic faith will be? Does Trey ask to many damn questions?

good thread ,and question ,
the Abrahamic religions ,for my opinion influence/effect or creat the culture in that time, until nowday .
religion is way of living , to pray God , and treat the people .
for my opinion this life/world without religions , would be like great place of wars and killing .
because religions give limite such of human bad acts.

 

[Levite]

Interesting. But iam also a bit sceptic.
They seem to have other urgent needs than to be introduced to judaism.

And i wonder how much they really understand of the hebrew when they are singing or praying.

No need to be skeptical this time.

I went to rabbinical school with Gershom Sizomou, the Ugandan rabbi whose community this is. He ensured that they were all halachically converted, and he worked tirelessly to raise huge amounts of money to provide not only material aid for the community, but also to ensure that they could begin massive efforts to educate themselves and their children Jewishly. This community is the real deal.

They are a great example of how a community can be fully Jewish and yet retain many aspects of the cultures around them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Religions are a reflection of the society in which they were born. What is important to that society is important to their religion, and what they do not like is frowned upon in their religion.
Christianity, the book at least, hasn't changed much but the followers are forced to change it and present it differently to allow it to survive as society changes. This is how Christianity survived even though within the Bible there are many harsh penalties, permitted slavery, virgins must marry their rapist, and stoning as a form of execution. If Christianity were static then it would have been eradicated from society.

 

[Pegg]

The Christian greek scriptures, though built on the Torah, do not promote any culture. it is written in such a way that people of any culture can apply it without having to change their culture to do it.

 

[Pegg]

This is how Christianity survived even though within the Bible there are many harsh penalties, permitted slavery, virgins must marry their rapist, and stoning as a form of execution. If Christianity were static then it would have been eradicated from society.

Christianity did this by not continuing with the mosaic law code. It was pretty early on in the 1st century that the Jerusalem congregation made the unanimous decision that the new gentile believers were not expected to live by the mosaic law code. they sent a letter to the congregations which Luke recorded in the book of Acts;

Acts 15;22 Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Bar′na‧bas, namely, Judas who was called Bar′sab‧bas and Silas, leading men among the brothers; 23 and by their hand they wrote:
“The apostles and the older men, brothers, to those brothers in Antioch and Syria and Ci‧li′cia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24 Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to YOU together with our loved ones, Bar′na‧bas and Paul, 26 men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore dispatching Judas and Silas, that they also may report the same things by word. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!”

So because Christians are not expected to follow the mosaic law, they do not live like Jewish people according to jewish law.

And it is really only the mosaic law which would cause christians to maintain a jewish culture Jewish culture (at least at that time) was based on the mosaic law.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christianity did this by not continuing with the mosaic law code. It was pretty early on in the 1st century that the Jerusalem congregation made the unanimous decision that the new gentile believers were not expected to live by the mosaic law code. they sent a letter to the congregations which Luke recorded in the book of Acts;

Acts 15;22 Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Bar′na‧bas, namely, Judas who was called Bar′sab‧bas and Silas, leading men among the brothers; 23 and by their hand they wrote:
“The apostles and the older men, brothers, to those brothers in Antioch and Syria and Ci‧li′cia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24 Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to YOU together with our loved ones, Bar′na‧bas and Paul, 26 men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore dispatching Judas and Silas, that they also may report the same things by word. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!”

So because Christians are not expected to follow the mosaic law, they do not live like Jewish people according to jewish law.

And it is really only the mosaic law which would cause christians to maintain a jewish culture Jewish culture (at least at that time) was based on the mosaic law.

Such is why I said the believes are not static. And that is also ignoring the harsh bits that Paul added.

The Christian greek scriptures, though built on the Torah, do not promote any culture. it is written in such a way that people of any culture can apply it without having to change their culture to do it.

Of course it is. It reflects a culture that repressed women, stoned homosexuals, and a culture that was already familiar with Jewish believes. It also reflects the surrounding cultures, such is why there are so many Pagan believes and holidays infused into Christianity.

 

[Pegg]

Such is why I said the believes are not static. And that is also ignoring the harsh bits that Paul added.


Of course it is. It reflects a culture that repressed women, stoned homosexuals, and a culture that was already familiar with Jewish believes. It also reflects the surrounding cultures, such is why there are so many Pagan believes and holidays infused into Christianity.

where do the greek scriptures say to stone homosexuals or to repress women????

and pagan holidays have nothing to do with the Greek scriptures as nowhere do you find anything about celebrating christmas, or easter, or 'all saints day' or anything of the sort. There is only one celebration that that christians were to celebrate and the funny thing is that the majority of christians dont even know what it is nor do they celebrate it.

 

[Flankerl]

So are you just as skeptical of westerners converting to Judaism?

My friend i live in germany. After the fall of the USSR not only so called volga-germans could come to germany because they were eligible for german citizenship but also jews from the USSR who also were eligible for german citizenship.

Because of that many jews from the former USSR came to germany. Now there was or better is just one problem. They didnt know anything about judaism because they couldnt be jews in the USSR. This is why most older jews from the former USSR cant speak or read hebrew which is obviously a problem if its the language of judaism.

So yeah i tend to be sceptical. And it seems that they didnt convert.

You misunderstand. They are not being "introduced to Judaism" but, rather, having their Judaism supported.

I cant know everything.

No need to be skeptical this time.

I went to rabbinical school with Gershom Sizomou, the Ugandan rabbi whose community this is. He ensured that they were all halachically converted, and he worked tirelessly to raise huge amounts of money to provide not only material aid for the community, but also to ensure that they could begin massive efforts to educate themselves and their children Jewishly. This community is the real deal.

They are a great example of how a community can be fully Jewish and yet retain many aspects of the cultures around them.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[1137]

How much of the Abrahamic faith is infulenced by the cultures of the Jewish and Arab peoples? Should the faith be separate from the culture? What happens when the faith takes on the aspects of other cultures? Does the fact that the Abrahamic faith has crossed so many cultural bounderies make it superior to other faiths? Is that why older pagan religions died out? What do you think the future culture of the Abrahamic faith will be? Does Trey ask to many damn questions?

I would say that Judaism is influenced by the culture of the time. Judaism is it's own thing really, it is a culture in itself more than a religion almost. When it comes to Judaism, it is more about family, tradition, and history than dogma and scripture, which is very awesome in my opinion.

Now, culture in general seems to be influence by Christianity and Islam the most, not the other way around as the OP suggests. Culture has been changed drastically by Christianity in general, and places like Saudi Arabia's and Iran's cultures are based strictly on religious law (I fear America will soon be also). The fact that is has crossed boundaries does not make it superior. Not to be insulting, but it is easy to accept a new religion when they have similar holidays and symbols, or when they threaten to kill you if you do not convert or accept their ways. You see, who knows if Christian and Islamic culture would have caught on with force. Judaism is much older and even more paganism like than these other religions, but they never really converted people through mass force. So, in a way, it put the others in an evil light rather than good.

In the future, I think Christianity, Islam, and possibly Judaism, along with the cultures they have created, will die out. All the main beliefs of the world will be viewed as silly myth, and the newer stuff (based off ancient beliefs) will be truth. Then, thousands of years later, that will be myth and newer stuff (based off Abrahamic beliefs) will rise again. It is the natural course of things.

 

[Pineblossom]

That's why I'm curious as to how a culture that converts to Judaism does so.

How does anything happen?

Culture is a slippery subject - a bit like wrestling with smoke.

Culture is what works. If it does not work it won't be absorbed into culture.

In this sense culture has a functionality - it functions to hold a group together as an entity against others.

As a result, things like religion, eating, how to greet friends, how to great others, what tools are used, how genealogy is determined, how land is distributed, how resources are distributed are all a result of culture.

One of the biggest cultural markers is tribalism. Everyone who is a member of a tribe knows who are members and, more importantly, who are not members. Tribalism is alive and well - just go to a football match.

One only needs to look a Islam to note the cultural differences - particularly in the way women are treated. Compare Iran with Indonesia, Malaysia with Saudi Arabia and you will see that religion is culturally influenced.

Cultural defines who we are and provides a place for individuals who are born into that culture. How one is defined and how one finds that place are part of the enculturation process we all undergo.

How does a culture 'convert' to a particular religion - it converts because the new religion 'works'. Who gets to decided what works and what does not work? That is the more interesting question.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well, for starters, you might want to remember that (in addition to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) the Baha'i Faith is eminently Abrahamic, and represents a far more recent trend in Abrahamic religious culture!

Peace,

Bruce

I remember it, but know so little about it. Can you expand on the cultural differences of Baha'i and the rest of the Abrahamic faiths? What is the cultural heritage of the Baha'i?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

No need to be skeptical this time.

I went to rabbinical school with Gershom Sizomou, the Ugandan rabbi whose community this is. He ensured that they were all halachically converted, and he worked tirelessly to raise huge amounts of money to provide not only material aid for the community, but also to ensure that they could begin massive efforts to educate themselves and their children Jewishly. This community is the real deal.

They are a great example of how a community can be fully Jewish and yet retain many aspects of the cultures around them.

How do you see this village's future? Will they manage to maintain Judaism culture in Africa or will they create a hybrid culture that is both African and Jewish? As the new hybrid grows, what aspects of African culture would make them no longer Jewish if they were to adobt them?

 

[Levite]

How do you see this village's future? Will they manage to maintain Judaism culture in Africa or will they create a hybrid culture that is both African and Jewish? As the new hybrid grows, what aspects of African culture would make them no longer Jewish if they were to adobt them?

I think they are creating a culture that is a Ugandan Jewish culture, just as Jews in Europe created cultures that were European Jewish, just as Jews in the Middle East created cultures that were Arab Jewish or Persian Jewish. To have a Jewish culture doesn't mean that one rejects all aspects of the surrounding cultures, to which members may also have ties of inheritance (even if of more recent comparative development): music, cookery, the lingua franca, idiosyncratic stylistic details of observance in certain matters-- all these and more are areas in which there is room for tremendous diversity in the Jewish world, and in which such diversity already exists, to be added to be new communities and moving communities.

In theory, if they (or any community) were to syncretize bits of theology and practice that were fundamentally incompatible with Judaism, they would draw themselves into some kind of apostatic heresy, which, after a couple of generations, would result in their descendants no longer being Jewish. But I see little risk, at this point, of such a thing happening to this community. They seem quite committed to their path.

 

[Bismillah]

So while culture and religion are hand in hand, sometimes they break away from each other. I would like to explore that flexibility in this thread.

You are right, Islam is inherently a reformist religion as it was its stated goal and objective. Within that context then, Islam completely usurped standard Arab cultures and customs of the time and was able to appeal to a vast amount of people from around the world.

It is an oft neglected fact that Islam was spreading in Africa and the call to prayers came from the lungs of a black man before Islam had yet arrived in Yathrib which would be later renamed Medina.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Can you expand on the cultural differences of Baha'i and the rest of the Abrahamic faiths? What is the cultural heritage of the Baha'i?

For the record, the plural is simply Baha'is.

The Baha'i Faith is Abrahamic given that its Founders are direct descendants of all three of Abraham's wives!

And while it teaches the same spiritual virtues as the other Abrahamic religions, its primary emphasis is on promoting and fostering unity, its most central teachings being what we call the "Three Onenesses":

• There is only one God, known by many different names in the various languages and cultures.
• Humanity is one, being all spiritual brothers and sisters.
• Religion is one, all the great religions being stages in a single ever-evolving faith, the Faith of God.

You can find more information here:

http://www.bahai.org

My regards, and please feel free to keep the questions coming: we LOVE 'em!

Bruce

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

My regards, and please feel free to keep the questions coming: we LOVE 'em!

Bruce

Alright, what is the originating culture that the Baha'i come from? Was it Persian?

 

[BruceDLimber]

[W]hat is the originating culture that the Baha'i come from? Was it Persian?

Yes.

The Faith began in Persia in the mid-1800s and has since spread to literally every country on earth except the Vatican.

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yes.

The Faith began in Persia in the mid-1800s and has since spread to literally every country on earth except the Vatican.

Best regards,

Bruce

Are there aspects of Persian culture that are a part of the Baha'i fatih? What are they? Just curious as I know little about the Persian culture of the 1800s. Was there anything in Persian culture that sparked the transition from Abrahamic faith to form the Baha'i faith?

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes.

The Faith began in Persia in the mid-1800s and has since spread to literally every country on earth except the Vatican.

Best regards,

Bruce

Hi , thanks for that link , I want to know what the your holy book name ?
when your religion started
and is there any Prophet writen in that Book ?
and if you have a hereafter (judgement day ) ?
and is there any correponds/simulare law with other Abrahimic religions

 

[Godobeyer]

btw ; what mean Bahá’u’lláh