Abrahamic Religions: Why not just start with Noah?

[dust1n]

Thanks. Has there been any actual religious musing on this topic?

I mean, certainly God saw ahead of time that the first humans he made, other than Noah, would need to be wiped out. So, what was the whole point of all that? Why not just start with Noah? Apparently that guy was good enough to get God's favor over everyone else. No one who was alive was every going to be, or ever have a descendant that was going to be, in God's favor... apparently. I don't get pre-Noah history. Insights appreciated.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't get pre-Noah history. Insights appreciated.

I doubt it.

 

[dust1n]

I doubt it.

Well maybe someone else who sees them will, then.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well maybe someone else who sees them will, then.

There are reams of commentary on the first five chapters of Genesis, much of it by some very insightful people. I suspect that you've availed yourself of very little of this commentary because you simply don't care. You are certainly welcome to such dismissiveness; I just wish that you seemed more honest about it.

 

[dust1n]

There are reams of commentary on the first five chapters of Genesis, much of it by some very insightful people.

No kidding. But I was hoping to get something a bit more temporary than Maimonides. Also, it's a tad bit more fun with the group dynamic and all, seeing how people pull sources from things that would not appear in a general search.

I suspect that you've availed yourself of very little of this commentary because you simply don't care.

What I generally suspect is that there are many religious people who have addressed this in some conciliatory manner with the total belief system.

You are certainly welcome to such dismissiveness; I just wish that you seemed more honest about it.

You've been dismissed... I'm working on it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No kidding. But I was hoping to get something a bit more temporary than Maimonides.

^ not your brightest retort. Next time you might try invoking someone about whom you are at least minimally knowledgable.

You've been dismissed... I'm working on it.

... and failing.

 

[Willamena]

Thanks. Has there been any actual religious musing on this topic?

I mean, certainly God saw ahead of time that the first humans he made, other than Noah, would need to be wiped out. So, what was the whole point of all that? Why not just start with Noah? Apparently that guy was good enough to get God's favor over everyone else. No one who was alive was every going to be, or ever have a descendant that was going to be, in God's favor... apparently. I don't get pre-Noah history. Insights appreciated.

You could just ask a Jewish scholar. After all, it's their mythology.

 

[dust1n]

^ not your brightest retort. Next time you might try invoking someone about whom you are at least minimally knowledgable.

That's the only reference I know, who I have minimal knowledge of.

and failing.

Ah, well I tried. Is there a way to dismiss your chiding more effectively.

 

[dust1n]

You could just ask a Jewish scholar. After all, it's their mythology.

...You mean, like my neighborhood Jewish scholar?

 

[Willamena]

...You mean, like my neighborhood Jewish scholar?

No, I meant like members Levite or RabbiO. But if your neighbour is knowledgeable, then yes: ask someone who knows.

 

[dust1n]

No, I meant like members Levite or RabbiO. But if your neighbour is knowledgeable, then yes: ask someone who knows.

Oh. I'm not a big PMer and that sort of thing. I expect to see Jewish, Islamic, and Christian people are a pretty regular on this thread, and I get an array of opinions.

Am I out of my mind here? Did the intent of RF suddenly change overnight or something?

 

[gnostic]

No, I meant like members Levite or RabbiO. But if your neighbour is knowledgeable, then yes: ask someone who knows.

I have more interaction with Levite in the past, but they are both very insightful.

 

[Unification]

Thanks. Has there been any actual religious musing on this topic?

I mean, certainly God saw ahead of time that the first humans he made, other than Noah, would need to be wiped out. So, what was the whole point of all that? Why not just start with Noah? Apparently that guy was good enough to get God's favor over everyone else. No one who was alive was every going to be, or ever have a descendant that was going to be, in God's favor... apparently. I don't get pre-Noah history. Insights appreciated.

I cannot give insight for certain justifications, as myths occurring literally have no pre-history or history other than being written many thousands of years ago by unknown authors.

I can, give insight that the myth is referring to the human brain, mind, and meditation.

Yes, a human that enters within themselves and rises above has a different state of consciousness and awareness. As the mind was flooded with light, wiped clean, and altered.

 

[DawudTalut]

......I mean, certainly God saw ahead of time that the first humans he made, other than Noah, would need to be e wiped out. So, what was the whole point of all that? Why not just start with Noah? Apparently that guy was good enough to get God's favor over everyone else. No one who was alive was every going to be, or ever have a descendant that was going to be, in God's favor... apparently. I don't get pre-Noah history. Insights appreciated.

Peace be on you.
From Understanding from Holy Quran

1-Many a times, Holy Quran uses the words 'bani Adam' (sons of Adam) for humanity...This shows Adam was good enough.

2-His progeny was good enough:
[19:59] These are the people on whom Allah bestowed His blessings from among the Prophets, of the posterity of Adam, and of the posterity of those whom We carried in the Ark with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel; and they are of those whom We guided and chose. When the Signs of the Gracious God were recited unto them, they fell down, prostrating themselves before God and weeping.

Thus they could not have been wiped in flood.

[Just a note: Among the basic teachings to Adam were (Food, Dress, Water, Shelter.....sadly, still world in 2015 is struggling in these areas....) :
[20:119] ‘It is provided for thee that thou wilt not hunger therein, nor wilt thou be naked.
[20:120] ‘And that thou wilt not thirst therein, nor wilt thou be exposed to the sun.’]

3-Quran does not say everyone on earth was destroyed in Noah's flood. Noah came to a people. They were dealt accordingly:
[23:24] And We did send Noah to his people, and he said, ‘O my people, serve Allah. You have no God other than Him. Will you not then be righteous?’

More technical research you might want to read:
https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/new/NOAH_FLOOD_I.pdf

 

[rosends]

Thanks. Has there been any actual religious musing on this topic?

I mean, certainly God saw ahead of time that the first humans he made, other than Noah, would need to be wiped out. So, what was the whole point of all that? Why not just start with Noah? Apparently that guy was good enough to get God's favor over everyone else. No one who was alive was every going to be, or ever have a descendant that was going to be, in God's favor... apparently. I don't get pre-Noah history. Insights appreciated.

This broaches on discussions of free will, predeterminism and God's knowledge. According to one idea within Judaism, had Adam and Eve not eaten of the fruit, the world have been ushered immediately into the Messianic age. Had the world started with Noah, that opportunity would have ben lost. No, you say, what's the point of an opportunity if God knows who will do what...and that's where the conversation becomes much more complex.

 

[Ultimatum]

This broaches on discussions of free will, predeterminism and God's knowledge. According to one idea within Judaism, had Adam and Eve not eaten of the fruit, the world have been ushered immediately into the Messianic age. Had the world started with Noah, that opportunity would have ben lost. No, you say, what's the point of an opportunity if God knows who will do what...and that's where the conversation becomes much more complex.

God made them "good". That's probably a better place to start

 

[ether-ore]

Thanks. Has there been any actual religious musing on this topic?

I mean, certainly God saw ahead of time that the first humans he made, other than Noah, would need to be wiped out. So, what was the whole point of all that? Why not just start with Noah? Apparently that guy was good enough to get God's favor over everyone else. No one who was alive was every going to be, or ever have a descendant that was going to be, in God's favor... apparently. I don't get pre-Noah history. Insights appreciated.

Since you asked for insights, here is an LDS point of view from LDS scripture:

"For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage; And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be."

So... by comparison, we are now living in times which are similar to the conditions which existed before the flood. If one wants to know what conditions were like before the flood... all one has to do is look around. The judgments which occurred as a result of the flood will be repeated when Christ returns... which return is eminent. There is nothing mystical about life or the people prior to the flood. They were people like us who (with the exception of a very few) had rejected God. The earth was, as it is now, covered with violence and immoral behavior. Consequently, God's justice is hanging over our heads. Perhaps there is still time to repent, but it had better be quick. Events which were prophesied to occur in the last days are here now.

 

[dust1n]

I can, give insight that the myth is referring to the human brain, mind, and meditation.

Yes, a human that enters within themselves and rises above has a different state of consciousness and awareness. As the mind was flooded with light, wiped clean, and altered.

Ah, well I will read it if it's posted. I'm curious.

 

[dust1n]

Peace be on you.
From Understanding from Holy Quran

1-Many a times, Holy Quran uses the words 'bani Adam' (sons of Adam) for humanity...This shows Adam was good enough.

2-His progeny was good enough:
[19:59] These are the people on whom Allah bestowed His blessings from among the Prophets, of the posterity of Adam, and of the posterity of those whom We carried in the Ark with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel; and they are of those whom We guided and chose. When the Signs of the Gracious God were recited unto them, they fell down, prostrating themselves before God and weeping.

That's true, but a some point the progeny of Adam had become wholly bad eventually, except Noah. So, while Adam didn't lose favor of God and die a flood, his entire ancestry, except Noah did.

More technical research you might want to read:
https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/new/NOAH_FLOOD_I.pdf

Thanks, this is an awesome resource. Just going through the first 15 pages has been interesting.

 

[dust1n]

This broaches on discussions of free will, predeterminism and God's knowledge. According to one idea within Judaism, had Adam and Eve not eaten of the fruit, the world have been ushered immediately into the Messianic age. Had the world started with Noah, that opportunity would have ben lost. No, you say, what's the point of an opportunity if God knows who will do what...and that's where the conversation becomes much more complex.

Fair enough, but I figured even granting the whole free will/predetermination thing to be possible, I don't understand God's reasoning for perusing allowing free will if it was going to be entirely futile, at least, until he did a little clean up work. Would Noah have made the same choice as Adam when not taking the opportunity to push on the Messianic age? Would any conceivable human had made that choice?