Absolute proof against the existence of God, as described in the Abrahamic religions

[YoursTrue]

I have little problem with Adam & Eve getting expelled from the Garden. They failed the test of heart; fair enough.

I fail to see the justice in having people being born with sinful natures. Why allow that?

And killing first born Egyptians isn't exactly merciful.

OK, before I touch that, and it is time for me to go to sleep, I've been busy so forgive me for not getting back immediately, tell me why we die in the first place. Is it the way things are (let's say by evolution?) or do we die because we are no longer in perfect standing with God, that is without sin. Sin leads to death. I know some believe that children first born are sinless, but actually from Adam and Eve onward, the dna evidently must have been changed to that which definitely leads to death. Someone who has death in his body cannot give birth to a perfect offspring. Once we acknowledge that God has the ultimate power of life and death over us, then we can come to a better understanding.
As far as allowing, God 'allows' us to live. Most people value their lives. I know I do to a certain extent. There are many things I enjoy on this earth, but I am very well aware of my own sinful nature as well as the sin that goes on around us. Do I look forward to death? Certainly not. But it is clear we inherit death. Can I say it's not fair? No, I cannot. One reason I cannot say it's not fair is that I cannot demand of God that my own life keeps going. He is God. I am not.
Good night on that note.
Revelation 21:1-5 - and there are new heavens and a new earth.

 

[osgart]

Surely Jesus extended mercy, but he also went to his death willingly, so that others might live.
2 Corinthians 5:14,15 helps to explain this.
"For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again."

Why does an omniscient God have to show mercy this way? And what is just about the innocent paying for the guilty so that the guilty may live?

 

[osgart]

OK, before I touch that, and it is time for me to go to sleep, I've been busy so forgive me for not getting back immediately, tell me why we die in the first place. Is it the way things are (let's say by evolution?) or do we die because we are no longer in perfect standing with God, that is without sin. Sin leads to death. I know some believe that children first born are sinless, but actually from Adam and Eve onward, the dna evidently must have been changed to that which definitely leads to death. Someone who has death in his body cannot give birth to a perfect offspring. Once we acknowledge that God has the ultimate power of life and death over us, then we can come to a better understanding.
As far as allowing, God 'allows' us to live. Most people value their lives. I know I do to a certain extent. There are many things I enjoy on this earth, but I am very well aware of my own sinful nature as well as the sin that goes on around us. Do I look forward to death? Certainly not. But it is clear we inherit death. Can I say it's not fair? No, I cannot. One reason I cannot say it's not fair is that I cannot demand of God that my own life keeps going. He is God. I am not.
Good night on that note.
Revelation 21:1-5 - and there are new heavens and a new earth.

That makes me culpable because of my ancestors. God could have chose a different path for life creation. I had no say in my birth.

If I can't question God I cannot even know who God is. If I know God at all it's through his actions. And if the actions are not explained then I am accepting God on the basis of God's power over me and a blind trust.

In this age God does not show forth power. Instead we have to know God by God's mercy solely through the dictates of God's book?And how exactly do these words convict one of sin?

If I examine myself, why can't I examine God's motives as well? God is God because God is, without test or proof?

The only proof is a book. If I remember right a person is supposed to test and prove God and not just blindly accept.

As far as nature tells me I am here at random. I can't go beyond nature to give me more reason into my birth. We die because the body is mortal. As a child I did not know anything and my body is just my body. I see no sin in having this body.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why does an omniscient God have to show mercy this way? And what is just about the innocent paying for the guilty so that the guilty may live?

Again -- I'm going to ask you why do you think so-called innocent people die? I'm assuming you mean children with no decision-making capacity. Many people believe it's because of mindless, godless evolution. What do you think? We really have to start there. If one thinks it's evolution without any input in the biological processes from God, then there should be no complaint about heading towards death in any and each case. But thanks for your question. By the way, some children are born with serious health problems. Or born into families with problematic beliefs, such as child marriage, also slavery. Obviously that wasn't their fault. That's only a few questions. God did not do those things.

 

[YoursTrue]

That makes me culpable because of my ancestors. God could have chose a different path for life creation. I had no say in my birth.

If I can't question God I cannot even know who God is. If I know God at all it's through his actions. And if the actions are not explained then I am accepting God on the basis of God's power over me and a blind trust.

In this age God does not show forth power. Instead we have to know God by God's mercy solely through the dictates of God's book?And how exactly do these words convict one of sin?

If I examine myself, why can't I examine God's motives as well? God is God because God is, without test or proof?

The only proof is a book. If I remember right a person is supposed to test and prove God and not just blindly accept.

As far as nature tells me I am here at random. I can't go beyond nature to give me more reason into my birth. We die because the body is mortal. As a child I did not know anything and my body is just my body. I see no sin in having this body.

It is very, very difficult to examine ourselves. Many times we don't know why we do certain things, or react the way we do. And when we do something that's hurtful, it can be hard to change. Plus circumstances make a difference. There is no sin in having the body we have, because -- it's ours and no one else's. Although the body inherits sin. On the other hand, even our personalities can be a result of biological processes. (But I do not believe Adam & Eve came about by evolution.) I began having fear of death when I was about 5 years old. My mother who was not the religious type nevertheless felt sorry for me, so she would say a prayer with me sometimes before I went to sleep because I was so afraid. Do you know that sleep is often paralleled with death in the Bible? Such as when Jesus' friend Lazarus died, Jesus said also he was sleeping.
And here I am much older. Yes, wiser, but still have a long way to go. I never wanted to die in the real sense. Even though there are depressing times in life. So again -- the Bible makes sense to me when it ways we die because one man, Adam, brought sin and death into the world. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

[YoursTrue]

That makes me culpable because of my ancestors. God could have chose a different path for life creation. I had no say in my birth.

If I can't question God I cannot even know who God is. If I know God at all it's through his actions. And if the actions are not explained then I am accepting God on the basis of God's power over me and a blind trust.

In this age God does not show forth power. Instead we have to know God by God's mercy solely through the dictates of God's book?And how exactly do these words convict one of sin?

If I examine myself, why can't I examine God's motives as well? God is God because God is, without test or proof?

The only proof is a book. If I remember right a person is supposed to test and prove God and not just blindly accept.

As far as nature tells me I am here at random. I can't go beyond nature to give me more reason into my birth. We die because the body is mortal. As a child I did not know anything and my body is just my body. I see no sin in having this body.

As far as testing God, that is an interesting thought. Have you prayed for God to let you know more about Him? He's there. That, too, was my experience after I looked into a zillion religions but did not find God. He found me after I prayed to know Him. I'm not going to go into my experience here -- but I know it happened to me. Can I account exactly for everything the Bible speaks of? No, you guessed it, I cannot. But I believe the God of the Bible is the true God, as Jesus called Him, the only true God. (John 17:3)
Faith is a gift. That is what led me to God. Because it is one of the gifts of the spirit, and no one can give you this gift but God. I prayed for faith, and God answered me. No one can give you this gift but God. I know it seems like a contradiction of sorts, but it happened to me. Again -- do I understand everything in the Bible? No. But then, I don't even understand everything in myself or other people either.

 

[osgart]

Again -- I'm going to ask you why do you think so-called innocent people die? I'm assuming you mean children with no decision-making capacity. Many people believe it's because of mindless, godless evolution. What do you think? We really have to start there. If one thinks it's evolution without any input in the biological processes from God, then there should be no complaint about heading towards death in any and each case. But thanks for your question. By the way, some children are born with serious health problems. Or born into families with problematic beliefs, such as child marriage, also slavery. Obviously that wasn't their fault. That's only a few questions. God did not do those things.

Whether innocent or not we all die and nature takes its course. I do not see a benevolent hand in the world that makes sense out of every situation. I'm only one person and I have no foresight into the lives of all humans.

Evolution is mostly a blind process. I do think there is intelligence involved in it though. But not the kind that is supreme.

I do think humanity has the potential for making the Earth a decent place or one of horror. It's entirely up to them.

I cannot judge all people. I know a few innocent type people who are non religious though.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why does an omniscient God have to show mercy this way? And what is just about the innocent paying for the guilty so that the guilty may live?

Jesus was not an ordinary man. He came from heaven. He was, besides Adam, the only man not starting in sin. Adam chose to sin. Jesus did not. Jesus chose to remain faithful to God, his Father. And God raised him from the dead, giving those with faith a good reason to believe that God can give us everlasting life, taking away Adam's sin that we inherit by birth. But Jesus did not inherit that sinful nature. The rest of us do.

 

[YoursTrue]

Whether innocent or not we all die and nature takes its course. I do not see a benevolent hand in the world that makes sense out of every situation. I'm only one person and I have no foresight into the lives of all humans.

Evolution is mostly a blind process. I do think there is intelligence involved in it though. But not the kind that is supreme.

I do think humanity has the potential for making the Earth a decent place or one of horror. It's entirely up to them.

I cannot judge all people. I know a few innocent type people who are non religious though.

Frankly, humanity has taken its stand. And it's against itself, making wars, ruining the environment, choosing who lives and dies in many cases. But Adam chose death. And he passed it on to his offspring. How did he choose death? That is a question for you to consider. Whether we like it or not, we all face death. So I can't argue and tell myself or a higher power that I am not, not, not going to die.
(And again -- despite the continual backup and conjecture about evolution, I really do believe the Bible's account of the first man and woman. But I didn't always.)
Animals do not choose death. They had no choice put in front of them. (Neither did plants.) They die. So again, the idea that God said, "Let us make man in our image," makes sense to me. He didn't say that about the animals, including -- chimpanzees. Have a good night.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why does an omniscient God have to show mercy this way? And what is just about the innocent paying for the guilty so that the guilty may live?

It was more about Jesus being obedient and in friendship with God throughout it all, as opposed to Adam's rebellion. It was the rejuvenation and sanctification of human nature. Hence why Jesus is often called the new Adam and Mary the new Eve.

See the recapitulation theory of Atonement, which is very ancient:
Recapitulation theory of atonement - Wikipedia

You can also see my old thread about the theories and my thoughts on it here: Atonement theories.

 

[osgart]

It was more about Jesus being obedient and in friendship with God throughout it all, as opposed to Adam's rebellion. It was the rejuvenation and sanctification of human nature. Hence why Jesus is often called the new Adam and Mary the new Eve.

See the recapitulation theory of Atonement, which is very ancient:
Recapitulation theory of atonement - Wikipedia

You can also see my old thread about the theories and my thoughts on it here: Atonement theories.

So one could come to the conclusion that God was saving mankind from wrath of God and the power of Satan.

I know the Bible says , without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Kjv 1611. That seems to play into the penal substitution atonement.

I did not know there were so many other theories.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So one could come to the conclusion that God was saving mankind from wrath of God and the power of Satan.

I know the Bible says , without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Kjv 1611. That seems to play into the penal substitution atonement.

I did not know there were so many other theories.

Penal substitution is a rather new theory mostly adhered to by low church Protestants and Evangelicals. The Ransom theory (or Christus Victor), Recapitulation and Moral Influence are the most ancient. They still are very influential in Eastern Christianity.

 

[YoursTrue]

It was more about Jesus being obedient and in friendship with God throughout it all, as opposed to Adam's rebellion. It was the rejuvenation and sanctification of human nature. Hence why Jesus is often called the new Adam and Mary the new Eve.

See the recapitulation theory of Atonement, which is very ancient:
Recapitulation theory of atonement - Wikipedia

You can also see my old thread about the theories and my thoughts on it here: Atonement theories.

I like your statement that Jesus was obedient and in friendship with God as opposed to Adam's rebellion. Of course, Adam was promised life if he obeyed his Creator, and death if he did not. God resurrected Jesus.

 

[YoursTrue]

So one could come to the conclusion that God was saving mankind from wrath of God and the power of Satan.

I know the Bible says , without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Kjv 1611. That seems to play into the penal substitution atonement.

I did not know there were so many other theories.

This takes me back to another thought. Which is: do you think most people mind dying? I ask that because death is generally accepted as a fact of life without question. As if it were natural. I would say that most who believe in evolution believe that death is the only outcome for mankind. With no chance of life beyond death. Not that I understand everything, I'm still learning. But the Bible promises us everlasting life. John 17:3.

 

[osgart]

This takes me back to another thought. Which is: do you think most people mind dying? I ask that because death is generally accepted as a fact of life without question. As if it were natural. I would say that most who believe in evolution believe that death is the only outcome for mankind. With no chance of life beyond death. Not that I understand everything, I'm still learning. But the Bible promises us everlasting life. John 17:3.

There are some people who don't mind dying yes. In my life it does bother me. I have some very good things in my life, and I have a lot of love in it. I would want that part of my life to never end.

But what I want and what is real can be two different things.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are some people who don't mind dying yes. In my life it does bother me. I have some very good things in my life, and I have a lot of love in it. I would want that part of my life to never end.

But what I want and what is real can be two different things.

Agreed. Some people, like Mozart, didn't live long. Frankly, I look forward to (hope to) meet him in the resurrection. I also want to learn to tune pianos. I know it sounds strange, but there is some music I love, love, love to listen to. Yet many of those composers are dead. But I believe what the Bible says about a resurrection, particularly that there are "new heavens and a new earth" in which righteousness is to dwell. (Revelation 21:1-5) And despite opinions to the contrary, I believe the Bible. Now researchers are finding that those called Hebrews and related tribes, including Semites, Canaanites and other such related ones, came from one stock. More and more is actually putting the Bible in a verifiable position. It makes sense to me. Starting way back to Nimrod, the building of cities (how did they know that?), and Abraham (not a Jew), his offspring. OK, have a good night, nice talking with you.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are some people who don't mind dying yes. In my life it does bother me. I have some very good things in my life, and I have a lot of love in it. I would want that part of my life to never end.
...

Reading this again, from my observation (I haven't spoken to any ants yet), if I find an ant on my kitchen counter I will try to put my finger on it and squash it. They have amazing instincts, so if an ant senses my finger coming towards him, he scurries the other way to get away, and sometimes he does. But frankly, I don't think he thinks about it. I don't think ants ponder over life and death. I think and quite believe they have God-given instinct to survive. But nothing in the Bible record shows me they (ants and/or animals or plants) were made to survive or live forever. Adam and Eve were offered that opportunity. Animals were not. We, as human beings, can ponder over what we do not see. (Such as God and the possibility of eternal life or questions as to why do we die.)

 

[osgart]

Reading this again, from my observation (I haven't spoken to any ants yet), if I find an ant on my kitchen counter I will try to put my finger on it and squash it. They have amazing instincts, so if an ant senses my finger coming towards him, he scurries the other way to get away, and sometimes he does. But frankly, I don't think he thinks about it. I don't think ants ponder over life and death. I think and quite believe they have God-given instinct to survive. But nothing in the Bible record shows me they (ants and/or animals or plants) were made to survive or live forever. Adam and Eve were offered that opportunity. Animals were not. We, as human beings, can ponder over what we do not see. (Such as God and the possibility of eternal life or questions as to why do we die.)

I have seen ants carry other injured, or dead ants before. So I see ants as having communal, and strong instincts to survive. I don't see ants as automatons.

Elephants mourn the loss of their deceased would be another example.

I for one think that animals are living and alert. They lack certain intelligences, but nonetheless have forms of intelligence. How could they not?

Animals have social instincts. And probably a low level of self awareness. They are cunning and clever.

I for one think that their self awareness and intelligence is a mystery in a lot of ways. They certainly do suffer and it looks very much that way.

 

[rational experiences]

Jesus was not an ordinary man. He came from heaven. He was, besides Adam, the only man not starting in sin. Adam chose to sin. Jesus did not. Jesus chose to remain faithful to God, his Father. And God raised him from the dead, giving those with faith a good reason to believe that God can give us everlasting life, taking away Adam's sin that we inherit by birth. But Jesus did not inherit that sinful nature. The rest of us do.

Adam

0 AD AM….Morning Light.

True male science/letter number evaluation BC 0 AD......ABCD.

Alpha quotes...alphabetalphabetalphabetapha

The BET he says....as secret men's business.

Revelation 1:7 7"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amehttps://www.bing.com/images/search?q=jesus+in+the+heavens+clouds&qpvt=jesus+in+the+heavens+clouds&FORM=IQFRML&cc=AU&setlang=en-AU&cvid=a256668ca5a34b47a629df7536b35da6&qs=SW&nclid=0435149FD77AA292D4B049E00D39036D&ts=1591092098132n.

Questions about Adam and Eve | GotQuestions.org

PARA, means along side of....para D ise .....para and siDe.

Next to us, meaning a heavenly occurrence as caused by humans who changed the Heavens.

Reason you can make that quote.....a human male lived the experience, knew his life and his brothers as a world community O God earth were sacrificed and dying...so he got a large fed back male world community image in the clouds with a great big booming voice.

Feed back AI encoded/science cause.....in actuality.

How you can use common time reasoning, changes to the ground life relating to why cloud images own image.

Now when you can see a vision of dinosaurs in the clouds and yet no science existed....but hot burning radiating comets hit Earth....then the answer about radiation having caused it.....proven fact.

 

[YoursTrue]

I have seen ants carry other injured, or dead ants before. So I see ants as having communal, and strong instincts to survive. I don't see ants as automatons.

Elephants mourn the loss of their deceased would be another example.

I for one think that animals are living and alert. They lack certain intelligences, but nonetheless have forms of intelligence. How could they not?

Animals have social instincts. And probably a low level of self awareness. They are cunning and clever.

I for one think that their self awareness and intelligence is a mystery in a lot of ways. They certainly do suffer and it looks very much that way.

Ants and elephants have marvelous qualities. They have instinct for survival. They don't write books of their history. This tells me something. Humans are quite different in ways that go beyond animal life.