sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
"Religion" is not a "special subsection of fiction" in any of the public and university libraries I've seen... and sometimes Bibles are found in "Reference." Go figure.
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Accuracy of the Bible
- Thread starter rojse
- Start date
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Both prophets.
Hey, I can't blame you for believing that there is never a good reason to kill someone. In fact, it's commendable. The difference is that I think there are times when the death of other people is necessary.
I don't have to be. We're not talking about whether or not these things happened but whether or not they're relevant. My argument is that they're relevant when considering how one should act, behave, and think.
It's not arbitrary. It's a simple recollection of the events that occurred leading up to the giving of the Torah.
Per Rashi the formulation in the words that way mean, "Capable of sexual intercourse, even though she may never have experienced it."
Take it or leave it.
That's Jewish law. A man cannot rape a woman. Sexual intercourse must occur between two consenting parties.
Do you really want me to show you where it prohibits maltreatment of human beings? Gentile, Jew. When the law says do not murder that includes a non-Jew. If you don't believe me you are more than welcome to look up the Halakha in the Mishna and Gemara.
The only reason it was not prohibited to kill her family members is because God commanded that they be killed.
There are 7 tribes that the Jews were ordered to eliminate completely. Those are the only instances (that I know of, do you know of any others?)
None of those are permitted by Jewish law.
Whether or not they're virgins could be a matter of debate. It's a matter of the Hebrew. Rashi points out that the formulation of " Khol Yoda'at Ish LeMishkav Zakhar" means "Capable of sexual intercourse, even though she may never have experienced it."
I dont' know enough Hebrew grammar to say (conclusively) whether it does or does not say that. I, as a beginniner, if asked to translate it, would translate it as "All who have known man/husband, for he/she having laid with men."
I guess you could translate the Lamed as "to" and not "for" which would change the meaning to "All who have know men, to have laid with men."
Neither of those really helps, so I don't conclusively know how Rashi reaches his conclusion.
Why virgins then? Well, the whole reason for killing the Midianites in that manner was the fact that the Midianite women seduced the men and brought them into idolatry and sexual crimes (hence Pinchas). So it's possible that the reason for it being virgins is that it means those women who did not participate in the promogation of the curse by seducing Jewish men.
Were those commanded by God? And were the babies included in all those instances? If yes, then please also include the verses that show that it was commanded by God and that children were included.
Because of what I can infer about the way God behaves by past record of His behavior.
Andrea Yates was not given God's permission to kill her children.
Not relevant to our topic. Our topic is the relevancy of the Bible's accuracy. You brought up the ethics of the Bible (which are based on the relevancy of it's accuracy) as being horrible, barbaric, etc.
We're not talking about it being accurate or true. We've been through that. And we go over it in a lot of threads. I'm not going to continue to go over it. If you feel that the Bible is not true, and are going to question me on that in this thread, then you will not receive an answer. You are free, however, to create another thread for that discussion.
No. But I believe certain things about God based on a revelation and events following that revelation. God telling Muslims to commit 9/11 does not fit with that belief and therefore, on the basis of my belief, anything they say of that being true is a lie.
I already mentioned this to you:
See?The Knight said:
No. This thread is not the place for that and it has nothing to do with our discussion.
You're absolutely right. He doesn't need people to kill for Him. But He has them do it. Do you know why? Because in Judaism, this Earth and its creation are the result of a partnership of action between men and God. When men and God act in tandem, they work to make this world a better place. When man acts against God, that does not happen.
The midianites were members of our world who chose not to co-operate, and as such, it was a tandem action between man and God (God commanding and aiding in the commission of the action) that led to the result of their deaths.
No. I'm saying, "It is wrong to kill except..." which is not a contradiction. Exceptions are not contradictions, they're exceptions. Like if I say "It's wrong to run a red light expect...if you are a police officer." Is that a contradiction?
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
You do realize that what you call "The Bible" is simply a collection of religious stories, rules/laws, tradition and letters collected, selected and bound together right?
Do you read from the Catholic version of the bible or the Protestant version? I'm not talking about translation rather the one with all the scrolls or the slimmed down one..?
It is "religiously" accurate because any given particular sect (believes) their interpretation is correct. It's without a doubt it is, for the most part, inaccurate in the areas of science, math and history.
It's not a problem to me me until people start claiming how accuarate it is because it's the "inspired word of God"....nonsense...
Man of Faith
Well-Known Member
Trust me I know all about the Bible. I've slept with it. I have over 25 Bibles in my home with many different versions including the Atheists version. I have CDs with the whole Bible on it. I've been a Bible thumping Christian for 39 years. I soak up the Bible teachings like a sponge. I also see it's power over peoples lives.
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Commoner
Headache
Then let him do it. God's command is not an excuse, a justification to kill - in fact, it might be the worst excuse of them all. If you think it is justification to kill, I think you're immoral. I find your assertion that whatever one creates, he/she can destroy incorrect on many levels. No loving god exercises that kind of power over me. But even if I accept your premise - god still has no right to command you to kill. After all, we have free will, do we not? You claim that you would find it objectionable to kill anyone and in the same breath you claim you would do it if god asked you to do it. I find those two claims incompatible for any thinking individual. What good is free will if you're not willing to exercise it?
Yeah, that's a nice little cop-out. They weren't true christians/jews/muslims/scotsmen, right? You can say whatever you want, the fact is it is completely within the character of your god to command people to kill and people do kill in the name of your god. So you can talk about miracles until you're blue in the face but you have no way of claiming those who do things in god's name do it without his go-ahead. After all, you saw no mega-miracle in your lifetime, yet you believe in your god just as strongly as those that are supposed to have witnessed one first hand.
Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
Umm, isn't that the point he was making?
You said that no prophets exist without a temple in Jerusalem, right?
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Yes, indeedy!
McBell
Unbound
Seems to me that the answer is that for many people, the accuracy of the Bible is completely irrelevant do to their faith.
Same with thing with the Koran.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
So what you're saying is.....as many bibles you have you do realize how flawed it is...?
The bible gets a lot of things wrong...and for a lot of us who do realize that we don't have an issue with it. It's when creationist or "bible thumpers" start preaching to us their flawed text as though it was some sort of ultimate truth. The bible is "accurate" to those who believe it to be or believe it to be the inspired word of their god. I will say this though...for as much as it gets wrong it does have some areas where it's right...but then that could probably be said for other non jewish/christian text.........
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rojse
RF Addict
Sorry to interrupt you, Dirty Penguin, but the thread is not about whether the Bible is accurate or not, but if it is relevant if the Bible is accurate or not.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
I would find it objectionable to kill anyone. However, I also realize that there are times when it's necessary. That's what I said. Free will isn't doing what your desires tell you to do all the time. In fact, that's being controlled by your desires. Free will is having a desire or inclination one way, and doing the opposite. My free will lies in the fact that I do not have to be a slave to my desires, but I can choose to act opposite of my desires.
Unfortunately, there are evil people in this world and when such people do no co-operate with established standards and a social rules, then there are cases where said people must be taken out (via capital punishment or other justified form of killing).
I am not saying "they are not true X". I'm saying that I believe that God communicates with us based on certain criteria. Is it possible for God to talk to people today? Yes, that's absolutely possible.
However, if what God tells me today contradicts what He told us 3000 years ago, then I am faced with deciding which is correct. Well, when it comes to the current claim vs the older claim, the older claim wins. Why? Because the older claim had lots of miraculous events and happenings that accompanied it. The second did not. In that case, the second "revelation" must yield to the first. Even if the second is right.
There is a case like this in the Halakha somewhere...where a court is convening and a voice from heaven declares what the outcome should be. And the court still decides against what the voice in Heaven said. Sure, they all heard the voice, but if it contradicts previously held information then you have to examine the circumstances around both to determine the authenticity of the claim.
Yes. I suppose I spoke too quickly. There can be prophets without the Temple. Sorry for that miscommunication.
Commoner
Headache
That's not what we're talking about. I never said there was no such thing as justification for killing someone. Not at all. I said, the command of anyone, man or god, is not by itself justification. You can't simply say that god must have a reason for telling you to kill, so it must be ok to do it.
Can you think of a single reason why an all-powerful, all-loving god would ever command someone else to kill in his name (or at all)? Even if you accept that god has the right to do whatever he wants, why would he demand someone else to do it? (please don't say "to test his faith", I can promise you right now such an answer will prompt a harsh and annoyingly lengthy response).
I never said you should "go with your feelings" in order to "enact" your free will, quite the opposite. But if you're willing to go against your convictions (that killing is bad) simply because you are commanded to do so by a higher authority, how are you anything but a puppet of god?
Yeah, I get all that, but you're assuming that no such justification has been given to the men committing the crimes. Are you saying that the "grandure" of a miracle is measured by the number of people that observe it?
Once again, you're missing the fact that you have not witnessed any such miracle (or have you?), yet your faith is just as strong as the faith of those that supposedly have. The only thing you have is a claim of a miracle, hearsay. Yet you base your convictions on that - not only that, you accept that claim (which is just a claim, don't you forget it) and on that basis you accept the criteria (not set by yourself, but scripture) for abandoning all reason and blindly following god's commands. Your standards for what counts as "suficient" cause for doing so might be high (might have been set high) - yet, in essence, your logic is the same as the logic of a fundamentalist nutjob.
Then again, who knows what you would really do if put into a situation like that, words are cheap. Regardless of that, I find your arguments, your rationalizations for your actions in a hypothetical situation (god commanding you kill someone) highly objectionable and immoral.
EDIT: Oh, and just another little thing for you to consider. How can you (assuming that you have not yourself withnessed a grandiose miracle and assuming that a miracle 3000 years ago was an actual event) be sure that the supposed miracle you base your faith on didn't conntradict what god had said even before that? How can you be sure that the "first revelation" was, in fact, first? That it did not follow, for instance, an earlier revelation of god specifically warning against such false miraculous revelations?
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TheKnight
Guardian of Life
You and I both accept that sometimes people have to be killed (so it appears from your posts). You have certain standards and criteria for making that decision and so do I. Our criteria for making that decision are different. My criteria include God telling a person to do it. If God commands us to do something, then we should follow it. Including if that means to kill someone.
In essence, God telling us is a reason in and of itself. Why God told us to does not matter. Whatever it is that motivated Him to make that decision to tell us to kill someone has no affect on the fact that He did command us to do it.
It doesn't matter. His reason (or lack thereof) for commanding me to kill is not justification to ignore the fact that He commanded me to (if He did). My job is to obey Him and to do as He asks. Yes, I can contemplate His reasons, but even if I disagree with the reasons, that doesn't matter. Because His reasons have nothing to do with whether or not I obey Him.
Why would He demand someone else to do it? Because, as I said earlier, this world is a co-creation between us and God. "God made the world imperfect that man might perfect it." is the way it is often put. This is our (our and God's) world. When something positive must happen for our world, God (as a general rule, but not always) will have a person act in concordance with Him to get that positivity accomplished.
In essence, God would have me kill someone rather than Himself because this is supposed to be our world and it's not really ours if God comes down here and starts killing people. Rather, if He asks us to, and we do it. Then it is a co-act. And then it is both man and God that has participated in the creation of good within our world.
I have the potential to disobey. Puppets don't. Puppets are objects that have no choice but to obey the will of the puppeteer. I have a choice.
I'm saying that the believability of a miracle is measured by the number of people that observe it.
And I never said that the terrorists who committed 9/11 didn't have a justification for it. I believe that, in some ways, they did. But God didn't tell them to do it.
I suppose that's possible. But the reason I believe in the Torah in the first place is due to hearsay. To witness testimony. And the Jews have existed as witnesses under the most intense kind of pressure since the Sinai event and they still exist proclaiming that claim. Perhaps they're wrong, but I think that of existing religions they have the strongest claim to truth.
I don't know whether or not I would actually kill the people. I would probably object to God.
Because there is no record of any previous contradictory revelation.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
No problem rojse. I'll do my best to keep on topic. I was simply responding....
I think it's not relevant to those who have "faith" in its underlying messages.
I'm not motivated by "faith" when it come to the bible so it is relevant to me that it is accurate.
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Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
But I can blame you for making stuff up and attributing it to me. When did I ever say this? Here's an idea. Instead of telling me what I think, ask me.
Of course there may be times when you have to kill someone. Not because you're suffering under the delusion that God told you to, and not when they haven't done anything wrong and don't pose any danger to anyone, but when necessary to prevent greater harm. I would say the likelihood of this happening to me is slim.
I agree. They're very relevant. If you're stuck in the barbaric tribal mode of so-called morality, you're likely to slaughter Tutsis, Bosnians, or Jews, because you know they're evil, God condemns them, their grandparents committed evil acts, and they're born destined to continue them, just like Midianites and Amalekites. In this way you repeat the cycle of evil, and become evil yourself. That's why I condemn your despicable morality.
Where does it say these are the conditions for God speaking?
And how did you come to the conclusion that particular holy book is true?
Right. All of the expert translators of the Bible are wrong.
Even if God commands it?
You're contradicting yourself. Here you're telling us it's moral to murder Midianite babies, and that it's prohibited. Which is it, commanded or prohibited?
Right. So murder, rape, genocide, infanticide, any atrocitiry is permissible when you come to the conclusion that God commands it. Not, as you said above, prohibited. Commanded. The opposite of prohibited.
Oh, only seven total genocides then? No big deal.
Except when they're commanded.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
The Knight said:
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "
1 Samuel 15
When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations -- the Hittites, Girga****es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you -- 2 and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3 Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods, and the LORD's anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you. 5 This is what you are to do to them: Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones, cut down their Asherah poles and burn their idols in the fire. (Deut 7.1-5)
However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them -- the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites -- as the LORD your God has commanded you.
Dueteronomy 7
They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.
Joshua 6
Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Makkedah to Libnah and attacked it. 30 The LORD also gave that city and its king into Israel's hand. The city and everyone in it Joshua put to the sword. He left no survivors there.
Joshua 10
Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Libnah to Lachish; he took up positions against it and attacked it. 32 The LORD handed Lachish over to Israel, and Joshua took it on the second day. The city and everyone in it he put to the sword, just as he had done to Libnah.\...Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Lachish to Eglon; they took up positions against it and attacked it. 35 They captured it that same day and put it to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it, just as they had done to Lachish.
Then Joshua and all Israel with him went up from Eglon to Hebron and attacked it. 37 They took the city and put it to the sword, together with its king, its villages and everyone in it. They left no survivors. Just as at Eglon, they totally destroyed it and everyone in it....
Then Joshua and all Israel with him turned around and attacked Debir. 39 They took the city, its king and its villages, and put them to the sword. Everyone in it they totally destroyed. They left no survivors...
So Joshua subdued the whole region, including the hill country, the Negev, the western foothills and the mountain slopes, together with all their kings. He left no survivors. He totally destroyed all who breathed, just as the LORD, the God of Israel, had commanded.
Then Israel made this vow to the LORD : "If you will deliver these people into our hands, we will totally destroy [a] their cities." 3 The LORD listened to Israel's plea and gave the Canaanites over to them. They completely destroyed them and their towns; so the place was named Hormah.
Numbers 21
Joshua 10
When Israel had finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the desert where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who were in it. 25 Twelve thousand men and women fell that day—all the people of Ai. 26 For Joshua did not draw back the hand that held out his javelin until he had destroyed [a] all who lived in Ai.
Joshua 8
When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed [c] them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.
Deuteronomy 2
Now David and his men went up and raided the Geshurites, the Girzites and the Amalekites. (From ancient times these peoples had lived in the land extending to Shur and Egypt.) 9 Whenever David attacked an area, he did not leave a man or woman alive, but took sheep and cattle, donkeys and camels, and clothes. Then he returned to Achish.
1 Samuel 27
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"...And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they slew all the [adult] males. And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones...And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses...And Moses was angry with the officers of the host And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Ba'laam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Numbers 31
As I say, who has time to collect the endless lists of "utterly destroyed" from Joshua, but this gives you a flavor of your "holy book."
[/FONT]
Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
...bitter
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
(Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
I think this is "God" talking in the above verse.
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Priceless. This barbaric book wasn't/isn't big on woman's rights.
(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
Oh...I'm quite sure there are more of these gems in there....
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Commoner
Headache
Yes, there are times when killing someone is justufied. No, you can't make up arbitrary reasons for killing someone, I'm sorry. Unless you have an objective reason for killing someone, such as self-defence (or the defence of others), you are not permitted to kill anyone. You can't kill because daddy tells you to.
I agree, it does not matter, unless there is an objective reason, unless you are protecting yourself or others from getting harmed, no command regardless of motivation is sufficient justification to kill.
Really? His reasons have nothing to do with whether or not you obey him?! Really?!!
So, if you had knowledge of god's motivations and it turned out that god wanted you to kill someone because that made him laugh, you would obey? Did you really mean to say that? Why would it not matter if you disagreed?! You claim you have the right to decide - that god does not make you do it, yet you also admit you would blindly follow god's command, regardless of his motivation. That's just horrible!
Instead of simply making it right in the first place? He would have you kill entire nations after having had created them, knowing full well that they were going to have to be destroyed? See, that doesn't really go with a loving god, does it? It's a bit like someone having a child knowing that he/she would murder it in, let say, ten years.
You know, I could go off on a lengthy rant right here, but I think it would do any good if you really think in such simplistic terms.
People have the potention to disobey, clearly you do not! You admitted a moment ago that you would not disobey god, no matter what! Before even having a decision to make!
That's not what I asked. Try again.
Another piece of crappy reasoning, I see. Tell me, Knight, what is the justification for terrorism. What, save the word of god, is the justification for killing random women and children? Please, make me understand.
:foot::foot::foot:You're ignoring what I really said. Nothing to do with your particular religion, it's the logic behind your decision-making that I was criticizing. Please, explain to me how your reasoning differs in any relevant way from someone that commits an atrocity in the name of god.
You say that in order for you to blindly accept god's command (without considering god's motivations) certain conditions must be met. Those conditions are set by your religion (and each religion, in general). You accept your religion on the basis of hearsay. Therefore, you follow what you perceive as god's command on the basis of hearsay, not on the basis of an objective standard. The only thing that differs your logic from what we would consider to be a nutjob is that you've had some luck in choosing a religion that sets the standard a bit higher than the convictions of those nutjobs. But the standard is not your own, it is not objective, it's arbitrary. And the way you come to your conclusion for what you can consider god's command is identical to the reasoning of those nutjobs. Please tell me I've made an error in logic somewhere.
The problem with the "this religion makes the strongest claim to truth" argument is that while that's a perfectly fine opinion, assesment, that does not mean that you can say that therefore, everything this religion says is the absolute truth. (Or at least it wouldn't mean that, if religions didn't include that in their scriptures). I'll never understand why, instead of judging each claim on its own merit, one would dogmatically defend each and every aspect of a religion, simply because one judges that religion to be the one that makes the strongest claim. Clealy, Knight, rape and murder are not ok, and we agree on that, I think. Yet, you'll defend and rationalize the most outrages, gruesome claims, as long as they are a part of the dogma of your religion. The all-or-nothing mentality is clearly not constructive. Imagine that I were to act in the same way and decide that, since one of the claims your religion makes is false (for instance, something as trivial as me not agreeing that diet is a moral issue), they must all be false. How illogical would it be of me to say that. And how dangerous, if I could live up to it.
Now, now, you just said a moment ago that: "His reason (or lack thereof) for commanding me to kill is not justification to ignore the fact that He commanded me to (if He did). My job is to obey Him and to do as He asks."
So you do understand, at least in a very small way, how doing something that goes against what you think is right simply because god commands it, is not necessarily the best course of action? Yet you still feel the need to rationalize the heck out of it?
Ahem. So, let me get this straight. If I were, for instance, able to provide you with religious scripture that pre-dates the Torah and with which the Torah is clearly contradictory, you would denounce your faith? Keep in mind, any grand miracles that you require now, because of your belief in the OT, would not necessarily be required by the "first" revelation.
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Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
No one has time to collect them all.
While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.
When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife.
Then they took what Micah had made, and his priest, and went on to Laish, against a peaceful and unsuspecting people. They attacked them with the sword and burned down their city.
So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 "This is what you are to do," they said. "Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin." 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.
Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
who trains my hands for war,
my fingers for battle. 2 He is my loving God and my fortress,
my stronghold and my deliverer,
my shield, in whom I take refuge,
who subdues peoples [a] under me.
A person could do this all day.
While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.
When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife.
Then they took what Micah had made, and his priest, and went on to Laish, against a peaceful and unsuspecting people. They attacked them with the sword and burned down their city.
So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 "This is what you are to do," they said. "Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin." 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.
Praise be to the LORD my Rock,
who trains my hands for war,
my fingers for battle. 2 He is my loving God and my fortress,
my stronghold and my deliverer,
my shield, in whom I take refuge,
who subdues peoples [a] under me.
A person could do this all day.