Let's just flip a coin. Heads I win, tails you lose. Lol:biglaugh:
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Adam and Eve as a Myth
- Thread starter idav
- Start date
javajo
Well-Known Member
I know what you are trying to say, but I believe the trees in Revelation are real trees and the Tree of Life in the Garden was a real tree. When they were driven out God placed Cherubims and a flaming sword to keep them from that tree. Cain was conceived after they were driven out and I believe his wife was an offspring of the many sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. Cry incest but the law was not yet and the genes were pure. I believe in the Trees of Life and the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the Garden of Eden, the Cherubim, the flaming sword and all that. I believe Jesus Christ walked on water and calmed the storm, too. I also believe he is coming again to take me to Heaven, so...
javajo
Well-Known Member
I am very familiar with Paul's writings, which I believe are God's Truth. I never mentioned Acts...I simply showed that God placed man at the beginning of the creation, too. I don't go by feelings, but by the Word of God.
outhouse
Atheistically
first of all, how would paul know anything about creation, other then knowing the mythology in the OT ?
and second, according to science, there has never been anyting created thtacan be attributed to anything in the bible. But science does show that the events should not be taken literally as written.
javajo
Well-Known Member
I believe the Holy Spirit revealed many things to Paul like salvation to the Gentiles, that were hid from the foundations of the world. I believe science shows the Bible to be true.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, Romans 16
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor. 2
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Ephesians 1
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3
I don't see much point in continuing this debate, so how about a musical interlude.
It Ain't necessarily - George Gershwin - played by Mo´fazz at Spice Records - YouTube
It Ain't necessarily - George Gershwin - played by Mo´fazz at Spice Records - YouTube
First of all there is the beginning of angelic creation first in the invisible realm long before the creation of the visible material and physical realm.
Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God in the heavens- Rev. 3 v 14
Whereas Adam was the beginning of the physical creation by God.- Luke 3 v 38 B
javajo
Well-Known Member
Hey,we are enjoying our jazzy, groovy interlude. I am not dishonest. I believe the Bible and science line up just fine from what I have observed. But, hey, I see the Grand Canyon and other formations around it and see quite evident evidence of Noah's Flood and two ancient lakes that formed it. You may see something different. Depends on your worldview.
I'm not debating, I'm just stating that I believe in Adam and Eve. Some folks could use a little more faith.
outhouse
Atheistically
from a standpoint of ignorance or intellectual dishonesty, as you know science states that no global flood has ever happened, and the canyon took millions of years to form.
that is the intellectual dishonesty I speak of.
it has nothing to do with worldview and everything to do with scientific facts, and those that ignore these facts in favor of mythology.
faith has a big problem here.
when science places limits on faith, the faithful choose to purposely ignore scientific findings, or pervert them to meet their specific faith's needs
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
God revealed no such thing. That is merely your fantasy, and his. He was obviously making it up, you merely want what he wrote to be true. He was a con man who took over a cult, and you're merely a dupe, two thousand years later. You are essentially following an ancient David Koresh.
javajo
Well-Known Member
It is intellectually dishonest and not good science to not be open to new ideas. Religion on the shelf, when I examine the earth, I see plenty of evidence for catastrophic events such as a worldwide flood and the Grand Canyon is just one of many monuments to this. Uniformitarianism just doesn't work and the theory of evolution is collapsing as I type. Its when evolutionists take over and ban free thinking people from submitting to their journals or teaching in their colleges that science is thrown back to the dark ages. There is plenty of dishonesty, but its not on my part. But, hey, when you've seen the light and know the truth, you must proclaim it. No sense going back into darkness.
Yea, hath God said?
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
So you aren't going to engage in real conversation, I take it?
I realize having to face reality is a little harsh, for the unprepared.
McBell
Unbound
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Science is always open to new ideas provided they have a basis in reality. Harping on about the possibility of something occuring for which tere is absolutely no evidence whatsoever - and, in fact, all the available evidence seems to contradict - is not "intellectual honesty". That's called wilfull ignorance.
Despite the fact that scientists already have an explanation for the grand canyon which doesn't involve the invention of an event for which there is no evidence of? You don't seem to have any logic here. You just go:
1) I see the grand canyon.
2) ????
3) Therefore, it was made by flood.
See that part in the middle - that's what science fills in. And, so far, no amount of investigation into the grand canyon (or any canyon, cliff, mountain, geological formation, ocean, sea bed or strata) has lent any credibility whatsoever to the notion that there was ever any kind of global flood as described in the Bible.
Evidently, somebody forgot to tell all the biologists in the world.
Nobody has ever been "banned" from submitting to scientific peer-review unless thay have demonstrated dishonesty or failure to adhere to the scientific method. This is not some kind of intellectual fascism - it's how science works and continues to work. It's how every major discovery, theory and breakthrough in the last hundred years has actually been made. The dark ages come when we allow superstition and dogma prevent us from accepting the truth of reality.
Let us know when that happens, then.
Good luck with the evolution/atheism and whatnot. I'll stick to real science and the Bible.
Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
I am a polytheist, and even I know evolution is true.
Good luck with the willful ignorance of the science that governs most portions of your modern life, thing. You have basically, with your creationism, been suckered in by an internet meme.
Good luck with the willful ignorance of the science that governs most portions of your modern life, thing. You have basically, with your creationism, been suckered in by an internet meme.
johnhanks
Well-Known Member
Well, you seem to be pretty good on the bible; when are you going to start on the real science?
If your arguments are sound, the number of people posting against them counts for nothing.
Throughout your posts you have protested, "I believe [x,y,z] to be true" and added, in effect, "if you don't like it, tough". Thus far you are unassailable - no-one on this forum or anywhere else is entitled to tell you you can't believe whatever you want.
But when you start claiming that "real science" backs up those beliefs, you are fair game. And whining about being "ganged up on" will not make the criticisms go away.