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Adam and Eve as a Myth
- Thread starter idav
- Start date
McBell
Admiral Obvious
I have no doubts you love it.I love it when I get ganged up on. Eh, whaddya gonna do.Good luck with the evolution/atheism and whatnot.
What better excuse to pull the self appointed martyr card.
"Oh poor poor ganged up Christian, he must be right because there is a group of people showing him how is wrong..."
So much for you claim of not being a liar...
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Even more evidence to support your dishonest nature...
You make claim after claim of having all this evidence but then shy away from presenting it cause you know it is worthless...
That is not the behavior of an honest person....
Silvercoat
New Member
I think Adam and Eve is an allegory for the blithe lifestyle the barenaked
prehistoric men probably had when they were wandering through Eden.
It has been suggested by some scientists that during the last ice-age
today's Sahara desert must have been a paradise with lots of vegetation,
so most likely the prehistoric man who lived in this paradise have passed down
stories about their happy life to their descendants (orally, from generation to generation).
And once man had learnt to write, someone decided to write down these prehistoric
lores by using the allegory of Adam and Eve (who represent prehistoric man).
Well, that's my very personal theory about how this Adam and Eve myth happened
to be part of Genesis, so of course I don't believe this myth literally.
However, I do NOT feel any urge at all to condemn people who wanna believe this
myth literally, because if for some mysterious reason the laws of nature and
the laws of reason themselves could have changed in the course of many thousands
of years (we can't know for sure they didn't!), then maybe Adam and Eve could
have happened in reality, too. To each his own (belief) !
prehistoric men probably had when they were wandering through Eden.
It has been suggested by some scientists that during the last ice-age
today's Sahara desert must have been a paradise with lots of vegetation,
so most likely the prehistoric man who lived in this paradise have passed down
stories about their happy life to their descendants (orally, from generation to generation).
And once man had learnt to write, someone decided to write down these prehistoric
lores by using the allegory of Adam and Eve (who represent prehistoric man).
Well, that's my very personal theory about how this Adam and Eve myth happened
to be part of Genesis, so of course I don't believe this myth literally.
However, I do NOT feel any urge at all to condemn people who wanna believe this
myth literally, because if for some mysterious reason the laws of nature and
the laws of reason themselves could have changed in the course of many thousands
of years (we can't know for sure they didn't!), then maybe Adam and Eve could
have happened in reality, too. To each his own (belief) !
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gnostic
The Lost One
javajo said:
That's just it, javajo!
You only "just believe in Adam and Eve were real people". You see - "believe" being the operative word.
You can believe whatever you like, but for anyone to claim someone or something to be REAL, you need to provide some evidences to substantiate this reality of yours.
Science is more than just BELIEF.
Science is about KNOWLEDGE, and UNDERSTANDING THAT KNOWLEDGE with observation; observation as in EVIDENCES, or testable hypothesis.
You keep repeating yourself that Adam-and-Eve story (or the Flood story or any other biblical stories) don't clash or contradict with science:
javajo said:
javajo said:
The moment you make ANY CLAIM (about your belief) and try to combine this claim WITH SCIENCE, then you shouldn't be surprise when someone ask to substantiate this claim WITH EVIDENCES. If you cannot back your claim with evidences, then such claim has no scientific merits or basis in reality.
Then you contradict yourself with these statements:
javajo said:
And no, it isn't "good science".
You need to do more than just questioning science. You'd need to question it, and then back it all up with evidences. Without the evidences to verify or substantiate your claim, it is nothing more than baseless opinion or baseless belief, and that's seriously NOT "good science".
Why do you always forget the "evidence" PART when you talk of science????
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Heathen Hammer
Nope, you're still wrong
It's the word 'science' that is enchanting, because if it were applicable, it lends real credibility.
Someone holds a position which has zero credibility, but wishes desperately that it did. So just grab possession of the good-sounding word and pray.
Someone holds a position which has zero credibility, but wishes desperately that it did. So just grab possession of the good-sounding word and pray.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
I think you let the literalists off much too easily. Much has been discovered about the past. It fails to support their ideas. Much has been discovered about how our universe works. You might-haves need evidence before they have any force at all. Many of these literalists know very well that there was no Adam and Eve but cling to that myth to preserve horrid notions such as original sin that let them feel superior.
javajo
Well-Known Member
Hello, all. Well, its back to work tomorrow, so my presence will be very scarce. Enjoyed chatting with you and respect and love to all! I still believe in Adam and Eve and in the free gift of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. I believe and hope others might investigate my belief that by Adam we inherited a sinful nature and condemnation, but by Jesus we may have forgiveness of sins and eternal life. God bless and here is a short article for anyone interested:
Were Adam and Eve Real People?
The Bible states clearly, without a doubt, that Adam and Eve were real people. They were not fictional characters like the tortoise and the hare, merely meant to teach a moral lesson. Adam and Eve were the first two human beings. God formed Adam from dirt. A short time later, God formed Eve using part of Adam (a rib). This is all found in Genesis 2.
How can we know for sure? If we believe the Bible is actually Gods testimony written through men but truly authored by God, all we need to do is look to the rest of Scripture. Does the Bible treat Genesis like a parable, or like history?
The History of the Bible is Seamless.
Genesis is primarily a book of historical narrative. It tells how God created the universe. Then how God created Adam and Eve. Then about their children, Cain and Able. Then about their descendants (not all of them) like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the nation of Israel, Joshua, Samson, David, Solomon, etc. The history is seamless. That is, there is no distinction which closes off Adam and Eve from the rest of these people. If the later people in this list are real, than so are Adam and Eve. At least, thats what the Bibles seamless historical narrative asserts.
Biblical Writers Treat Ancient Bible History as Fact, Not Fiction.
Look up Adam or Eve in a concordance. Nowhere in the Bible are Adam and Eve treated like fictional characters. Always they are actual people who did real things in a real world. Not figurative, but historical.
A genealogies in First Chronicles 1 and in Luke 1 include Adam as the first man. The genealogy in Chronicles connects Adam to Abraham and the Jewish people. The genealogy in Luke 1 connects Jesus to Adam. If Jesus was real, so was Adam. At least, thats what Lukes genealogy asserts.
We might also add the genealogy in Matthew 1 to this list. It connects Jesus to Abraham, but goes no further. Thats where a Jew would turn to First Chronicles to complete the genealogy to Adam. The main point in Matthew is establishing that Christ was a descendant of Abraham through Davids line, since the prophecies concerning the Christ said this would be true of Him.
Jesus Believed That Adam and Eve Were Real People.
When asked about marriage He responded by referring to the first marriage, that of Adam and Eve.
A Gospel That Has Meaning Requires a Literal Adam and Eve.
Those who suggest Adam and Eve were not real people do not bring their suggestion as the fruit of Bible study, but from some other source.
Posted by Pastor Caleb Schaller
Were Adam and Eve Real People?
The Bible states clearly, without a doubt, that Adam and Eve were real people. They were not fictional characters like the tortoise and the hare, merely meant to teach a moral lesson. Adam and Eve were the first two human beings. God formed Adam from dirt. A short time later, God formed Eve using part of Adam (a rib). This is all found in Genesis 2.
How can we know for sure? If we believe the Bible is actually Gods testimony written through men but truly authored by God, all we need to do is look to the rest of Scripture. Does the Bible treat Genesis like a parable, or like history?
The History of the Bible is Seamless.
Genesis is primarily a book of historical narrative. It tells how God created the universe. Then how God created Adam and Eve. Then about their children, Cain and Able. Then about their descendants (not all of them) like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the nation of Israel, Joshua, Samson, David, Solomon, etc. The history is seamless. That is, there is no distinction which closes off Adam and Eve from the rest of these people. If the later people in this list are real, than so are Adam and Eve. At least, thats what the Bibles seamless historical narrative asserts.
Biblical Writers Treat Ancient Bible History as Fact, Not Fiction.
Look up Adam or Eve in a concordance. Nowhere in the Bible are Adam and Eve treated like fictional characters. Always they are actual people who did real things in a real world. Not figurative, but historical.
From Genesis
1This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
6Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. 7After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. 8So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died.
9Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. (Genesis 5:1-9 NKJV).
From Deuteronomy
8 When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations,
When He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the children of Israel (Deuteronomy 32:8 NKJV).
From Job
33 If I have covered my transgressions as Adam,
By hiding my iniquity in my bosom, (Job 31:33 NKJV).
From Second Corinthians
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpents cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3 NIV).
From First Timothy
13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. (1 Timothy 2:13 NKJV).
From Jude
14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: See, the Lord is coming (Jude 1:14 NIV).
Genealogies Include Adam As the First Man.1This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.
6Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. 7After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. 8So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died.
9Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. (Genesis 5:1-9 NKJV).
From Deuteronomy
8 When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations,
When He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the children of Israel (Deuteronomy 32:8 NKJV).
From Job
33 If I have covered my transgressions as Adam,
By hiding my iniquity in my bosom, (Job 31:33 NKJV).
From Second Corinthians
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpents cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:3 NIV).
From First Timothy
13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. (1 Timothy 2:13 NKJV).
From Jude
14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: See, the Lord is coming (Jude 1:14 NIV).
A genealogies in First Chronicles 1 and in Luke 1 include Adam as the first man. The genealogy in Chronicles connects Adam to Abraham and the Jewish people. The genealogy in Luke 1 connects Jesus to Adam. If Jesus was real, so was Adam. At least, thats what Lukes genealogy asserts.
We might also add the genealogy in Matthew 1 to this list. It connects Jesus to Abraham, but goes no further. Thats where a Jew would turn to First Chronicles to complete the genealogy to Adam. The main point in Matthew is establishing that Christ was a descendant of Abraham through Davids line, since the prophecies concerning the Christ said this would be true of Him.
Jesus Believed That Adam and Eve Were Real People.
When asked about marriage He responded by referring to the first marriage, that of Adam and Eve.
From Matthew
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?
4Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, 5and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh ? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate (Matthew 19:3-6 NIV).
If Genesis is not literal history, there would be no basis to point to it as the foundation for what marriage is and how it should be treated. Jesus, however, clearly believed Genesis to be literal history.3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?
4Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, 5and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh ? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate (Matthew 19:3-6 NIV).
A Gospel That Has Meaning Requires a Literal Adam and Eve.
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:21-22 NKJV).
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned death reigned from Adam to Moses, (Romans 5:12 NKJV).
According to the Bible death was not part of the world until Adam sinned. According to the Bible Adams sin is the reason the Savior was needed! If Adam and Eve are not real, but only figurative characters, where DID death come from? Why the big fuss about sins? If the Genesis account is not to be trusted, what is the real history, and why did God lie about creating a perfect world? God did not lie. According to the Bible, which is Gods eye-witness account preserved by His omnipotent hand, Adam and Eve WERE real people. It was their sin that infected the human race and made the coming of the Savior necessary. In Jesus we have forgiveness for the Originial Sin that we receive from our parents, and for the Actual Sins that we have committed. 12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned death reigned from Adam to Moses, (Romans 5:12 NKJV).
Those who suggest Adam and Eve were not real people do not bring their suggestion as the fruit of Bible study, but from some other source.
Posted by Pastor Caleb Schaller
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Nice choir sermon.
Has anybody here ever actually read Guliver's Travels? I am going to assume that most people here are familiar with the story of a man who travels to various nations and encounters people who are approximately 6 inches tall, others who are over 70 feet. He encounters talking horses, a flying island, imortal people, ghosts, and other things.
Anyone who has ever actually read this book, and I am sure many of you have, knows that the author insists repeatedly and emphatically that everything written in that book is the absolute truth. The author takes great pains to criticize other travel books for exaggerating, romanticizing, or out right fabricating details of their stories. He insists that he has not done this. And of course you are going to find nothing within Guliver's Travels that contradicts Guliver's Travels. And the book states quite clearly and without doubt that the Lilliputians were real people.
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In Gulliver's travels to whom are the people related ? What is their family tree?
Jesus genealogical record [Luke 3 v 38] traces Jesus back to Adam. [1st Chron. 1 v 1; Deut. 4 v 32]
Luke recorded Jesus family tree from the public temple records at Jerusalem.
If those records were wrong early writers would have pointed that out.
Jesus supported his teachings with references to already existing Scripture.
No way Jesus could have pre-planned his birth or death.
Jesus genealogical record [Luke 3 v 38] traces Jesus back to Adam. [1st Chron. 1 v 1; Deut. 4 v 32]
Luke recorded Jesus family tree from the public temple records at Jerusalem.
If those records were wrong early writers would have pointed that out.
Jesus supported his teachings with references to already existing Scripture.
No way Jesus could have pre-planned his birth or death.
The temple, and its records, were destroyed in the year 70.
It was John who wrote his writings close to the year 100.
Luke covers the years from near Jesus birth to Jesus death.
Luke completed his writings 'before' the year 70.
The Christians according to Eusebius fled Jerusalem to Pella.
That was four [4] years before the year 70.
The Christians knew when to flee the city because of what Luke wrote at Luke 21 ,22; 19 vs 43,44. They would have not known when to flee if written after the year 70.
outhouse
Atheistically
well thats all false
lthe unknown author of Gluke copied the unknown author of Gmark, Gmark is roughly 70 ish
Gospel of Luke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most contemporary scholars regard Mark as a source used by Luke
However many critical scholars consider the "we" passages spurious or inserted and place the date c 80-90,[71][72]
averageJOE
zombie
fantôme profane;3118006 said:
Have you seen the movie "Return of the Living Dead"? At the beginning it clearly says "The following is based on a true story."
averageJOE
zombie
I will sum this all up for anyone who dosn't feel like reading the whole thing.
Adam and Eve were real.
How to prove this?
First, start with the conclusion, the Bible.
Second, believe for a fact that the Bible was written by god, because it says so.
Third, read the part where it talks about the "life" of Adam and Eve.
Fourth, RE-conclude that Adam and Eve were real.