Adam and Eve

[One Truth]

We are told in Genesis that God kicked Man out of the Garden of Eden.
I Now propose this question,
Did Man kick God out of the Garden, and allowed the Dark one in?

 

[Quagmire]

We are told in Genesis that God kicked Man out of the Garden of Eden.
I Now propose this question,
Did Man kick God out of the Garden, and allowed the Dark one in?

Interesting question One Truth.

My best guess would be that Man kicked God out and then invented the Dark One to have someone to blame the results on.

 

[Jeremiah]

Interesting question One Truth.

My best guess would be that Man kicked God out and then invented the Dark One to have someone to blame the results on.

Then it would be God who is to blame as he created humankind as we are. While knowing what we would do. (assuming the Christian god.) Really anything that happens before such a being only happens because that being wishes it to happen.

 

[lilithu]

My best guess would be that Man kicked God out and then invented the Dark One to have someone to blame the results on.

Then it would be God who is to blame as he created humankind as we are. While knowing what we would do. (assuming the Christian god.) Really anything that happens before such a being only happens because that being wishes it to happen.

Why invent the Dark One to have someone to blame when one can just blame God?

Either way, man clearly does not take responsibility for his own failings.

 

[Willamena]

Interesting question One Truth.

My best guess would be that Man kicked God out and then invented the Dark One to have someone to blame the results on.

Hmm... my guess would be that we created an image of the Garden, and in doing so the image, being the more sure, replaced the Garden as the Garden. No kicking necessary.

 

[Jeremiah]

Why invent the Dark One to have someone to blame when one can just blame God?

Yes, me the atheist is blaming God.

 

[lilithu]

Yes, me the atheist is blaming God.

I agree it's very odd, but it ain't even the first time we've seen you do it. *shrug*

 

[Jeremiah]

I agree it's very odd, but it ain't even the first time we've seen you do it. *shrug*

Even an atheist can god talk. Instead of suggesting that an atheist blames God for his problems you should address my point. Now if your suggesting that humankind is quick to place blame on something other then themselves. I agree. But I was simply trying to stay within context. The apple. Why did an all-knowing being put the apple in the garden? God had to know Adam was going the eat it. If he didn't want Adam to eat the apple then he would have kept it out of reach. That means God wanted Adam to eat the apple. Are you going to tell me that this god is wholly without blame?

 

[lilithu]

Even an atheist can god talk. Instead of suggesting that an atheist blames God for his problems you should address my point. Now if your suggesting that humankind is quick to place blame on something other then themselves. I agree. But I was simply trying to stay within context. The apple. Why did an all-knowing being put the apple in the garden? God had to know Adam was going the eat it. If he didn't want Adam to eat the apple then he would have kept it out of reach. That means God wanted Adam to eat the apple. Are you going to tell me that this god is wholly without blame?

Why do you flippin care??! If you don't believe, then what's the point of you belaboring these questions?

What I hear from you is a lot of anger. And since you don't believe in God, I wonder who or what it's directed against.

 

[enton]

We are told in Genesis that God kicked Man out of the Garden of Eden.
I Now propose this question,
Did Man kick God out of the Garden, and allowed the Dark one in?

God commanded the first man (the earthly one) not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As the subtle serpent knew beforehand that Eve might not be able to get the admonition of Adam, his husband. Satan (that old serpent) beguiled her by asking reflective but deceptive questions. Adam was in-charge of the earth not only of the garden, but he heard the voice of his wife more than the voice of God. So, he rejected God and therefore God rejected him too.

 

[lilithu]

As the subtle serpent knew beforehand that Eve might not be able to get the admonition of Adam, his husband.

:biglaugh:

Satan (that old serpent) beguiled her by asking reflective but deceptive questions.

Where in scripture does it say that Satan did this? In my bible, it just says a serpent.

 

[Jeremiah]

Why do you flippin care??! If you don't believe, then what's the point of you belaboring these questions?

What I hear from you is a lot of anger. And since you don't believe in God, I wonder who or what it's directed against.

"Why do you flippin care??! If you don't believe, then what's the point of you belaboring these questions?"

I thought this was a religious debate forum. I came here to debate religion. Me being an atheist doesn't seem like a problem to me.

"What I hear from you is a lot of anger. And since you don't believe in God, I wonder who or what it's directed against."

Anger? Sorry no. You are very mistaken and if I caused you offense with my reproach I apologize. But am I not allowed to ask these question? I don't talk about The Bible much. But at any rate if you don't care for my questions then move on. It's no big deal. I think you are just overacting a bit though.

 

[lilithu]

I thought this was a religious debate forum. I came here to debate religion.

That may be, but this particular thread isn't about the theodicy problem. There are lots of threads about that, or if you can't find one, start your own. Why must you co-opt this thread? Can you at least see how tangential your response was to the OP?

I think you are just overacting a bit though.

More than likely true. But it's due to frustration resulting in numerous similar experiences. If you were in the science forum discussing different hypotheses on the origins of the universe and someone came in and said "God did it." how would you react? What if the same thing kept happening over and over again?

 

[Imagist]

That may be, but this particular thread isn't about the theodicy problem. There are lots of threads about that, or if you can't find one, start your own. Why must you co-opt this thread? Can you at least see how tangential your response was to the OP?

It's not tangential. The issue of blame was being discussed.

More than likely true. But it's due to frustration resulting in numerous similar experiences. If you were in the science forum discussing different hypotheses on the origins of the universe and someone came in and said "God did it." how would you react? What if the same thing kept happening over and over again?

I can't speak for Father Heathen, but I would react the way I always do: "You have no evidence for the existence of God. If you think you do, please elaborate."

The same thing keeps happening because your beliefs continue to be internally inconsistent. You continue to blame "the dark one" and humans for things that any omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being could have and would have fixed if he weren't evil.

 

[Willamena]

Then it would be God who is to blame as he created humankind as we are. While knowing what we would do. (assuming the Christian god.) Really anything that happens before such a being only happens because that being wishes it to happen.

It would, indeed. But since we created "God" then that casts blame back on us. Aye?

Or perhaps the answer transcends causation.

 

[Imagist]

It would, indeed. But since we created "God" then that casts blame back on us. Aye?

We are arguing under the assumption that god is an independent being who created humans (the correctness of the assumption is questionable, but not the topic of current debate). Given that assumption, we cannot have created god (that which does not exist cannot create).

 

[Riverwolf]

Well my interpretation of the Adam and Eve story is that it's an allegory to a child entering puberty.

Therefore it was inevitable that Eve would be the first to eat (girls mature faster than boys), and that she would give Adam the fruit herself, and they would later be ashamed of it.

God didn't kick them out of the Garden. They grew up. They were destined to leave the Garden eventually, but they ate before they were ready. Just like we hit puberty before we're truly ready, and those are the hardest years of human life... and Adam and Eve lived a hard life in the wastelands, almost to the point of suicide (if you read the non-canonical book "Adam and Eve"), until they realize that they can never go back into the Garden. Then things settle down.

 

[lilithu]

It's not tangential. The issue of blame was being discussed.

It would not be tangential if the poster was actually blaming God. But since we both know and he outright said that was not the intent of his post, I think it's reasonable to assume that the motivation of the post was to suggest implausibility and thus once again debate whether or not there is a God. And THAT is tangential.

I can't speak for Father Heathen,

Father Heathen?? I don't know which thread you think you're in but *I* was arguing with Jeremiah.

but I would react the way I always do: "You have no evidence for the existence of God. If you think you do, please elaborate."

Yes, I've heard it a thousand times and it really is getting quite tedious, hence my responding with frustration.

The same thing keeps happening because your beliefs continue to be internally inconsistent. You continue to blame "the dark one" and humans for things that any omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being could have and would have fixed if he weren't evil.

Dude, you are making so many assumptions, and you accuse me of believing in things without evidence. Ridiculous.

 

[zenzero]

Friend One Truth,
First, welcome to RF.

Adam and Eve
We are told in Genesis that God kicked Man out of the Garden of Eden.
I Now propose this question,
Did Man kick God out of the Garden, and allowed the Dark one in?

The answer is that as soon as MAN created god, satan got created by default as both are perceptions of the MIND. As soon as all perceptions drop all dualities drop including that of god/satan. Even the garden of eden is a perception.

Love & rgds

 

[lilithu]

Well my interpretation of the Adam and Eve story is that it's an allegory to a child entering puberty.

Therefore it was inevitable that Eve would be the first to eat (girls mature faster than boys), and that she would give Adam the fruit herself, and they would later be ashamed of it.

God didn't kick them out of the Garden. They grew up. They were destined to leave the Garden eventually, but they ate before they were ready. Just like we hit puberty before we're truly ready, and those are the hardest years of human life... and Adam and Eve lived a hard life in the wastelands, almost to the point of suicide (if you read the non-canonical book "Adam and Eve"), until they realize that they can never go back into the Garden. Then things settle down.

Aw, dude, I could hug you. :hug:

This is what I posted earlier today in a different thread:

Hell, yes, she wanted to be more! You say she was "perfect"? She was a moral infant, who did not know right from wrong. How is that "perfect"? Perfect stupidity. (Why glorify ignorance?) She wanted to take control of her own life and did.

You know what I get from that story? That woman had intelligence and ambition and man was a sheep. Adam was not more obedient. He was just a sheep. She didn't "seduce" him. (No where in the text does it say that. :sarcastic) She didn't have to. He saw what she had done and followed suit, because he couldn't think for himself. And then when they got in trouble with God, he couldn't even take responsibility for his disobedience. He blamed her, saying "It's that woman that you put here with me." Pathetic. (Granted, Eve backslided a bit at this point too, blaming the serpent, but at least she *chose* to eat the fruit.)

I don't care if you've heard it before, I'll say it again. I am GLAD they ate the fruit and left that stifling garden. It's the only way they ever could have grown. It's like leaving the womb to be born. Or leaving the safety of your parents house to make your own decisions, which of course come with risk. Who the heck wants to be stuck in an garden eating fruit for all eternity? Especially Eve, since she was not only stuck in that garden but also a helpmeet to a spineless man. No wonder she wanted to "be more." :sarcastic

Please excuse my harshness towards Adam. I'm actually not a "man-hater" or anything like that. I was responding to a guy that believes that God made woman to be the subordinate of man and that's God's will. :areyoucra