Adam and Eve

[Jeremiah]

That may be, but this particular thread isn't about the theodicy problem. There are lots of threads about that, or if you can't find one, start your own. Why must you co-opt this thread? Can you at least see how tangential your response was to the OP?


More than likely true. But it's due to frustration resulting in numerous similar experiences. If you were in the science forum discussing different hypotheses on the origins of the universe and someone came in and said "God did it." how would you react? What if the same thing kept happening over and over again?

I see now you are stereotyping me.

" Why must you co-opt this thread? Can you at least see how tangential your response was to the OP? "

You don't even seem to understand what I was saying. So your questions here are off bases. Also you are being hypocritical.

I was never talking about the problem of evil I was talking about causality. But I am guessing you're not really talking to me but you preformed idea of me. I think its best if we just move on. I will post what I want regardless of your protest. If you have a problem with it report it a mod.

 

[lilithu]

I see now you are stereotyping me.

" Why must you co-opt this thread? Can you at least see how tangential your response was to the OP? "

You don't even seem to understand what I was saying. So your questions here are off bases. Also you are being hypocritical.

I was never talking about the problem of evil I was talking about causality.

You were trying to call the existence of God into question by pointing out what you deem to be logical flaws. Like I said, tangential.

But I am guessing you're not really talking to me but you preformed idea of me. I think its best if we just move on. I will post what I want regardless of your protest. If you have a problem with it report it a mod.

Whatever dude, it's not like we haven't run into each other before.

 

[Jeremiah]

It would, indeed. But since we created "God" then that casts blame back on us. Aye?

Or perhaps the answer transcends causation.

"Aye?"

Well in the context we did not create God. God is the creator.


"Or perhaps the answer transcends causation."

Perhaps but it is the not the answer that I disagree with; it is the method of arrival. Why should we pardon God of all responsibility of the eaten apple? The only suitable reason would be faith in God's goodness. To say that God is good is in error. To say I have faith that God is good is the correct answer. Seems like splitting hairs but I think this is the difference between blind faith and genuine faith. If you ask me accepting something while understanding it is significantly different then accepting something without understanding it. I have always strongly felt that true faith requires understanding of the absurdity first.
.

 

[Jeremiah]

You were trying to call the existence of God into question by pointing out what you deem to be logical flaws. Like I said, tangential.


Whatever dude, it's not like we haven't run into each other before.

"You were trying to call the existence of God into question by pointing out what you deem to be logical flaws."

You don't know me as well as you think. I could care less about the actuality of God.
I am an existentialist.

"Whatever dude, it's not like we haven't run into each other before."

And I thought your behavior was odd then too and now I know why.

 

[lilithu]

You don't know me as well as you think. I could care less about the actuality of God.
I am an existentialist.

Ha, so am I. But that leads us right back to where we started, whether or not there is a God, out lives are ultimately our responsibility. It makes no sense to ask why God put an apple in a garden knowing that we would eat it.

I have always strongly felt that true faith requires understanding of the absurdity first.
.

Very clearly you've been reading Kierkegaard.

 

[Jeremiah]

Ha, so am I. But that leads us right back to where we started, whether or not there is a God, out lives are ultimately our responsibility. It makes no sense to ask why God put an apple in a garden knowing that we would eat it.


Very clearly you've been reading Kierkegaard.

" Very clearly you've been reading Kierkegaard."

I enjoy Kierkegaard. But I first gain a respect of faith from my father and my grandmother. Others have help me define and understand the nature of faith. Kierkegaard helped me come to a deeper understanding of faith much more then anyone else. Even if I don't understand half of what he writes. But if it had not been for others I would have never even looked. I have set faith aside though out of respect for my grandmother. She was so extraordinarily kind hearted I always thought it can't be all bad. I like to press the distinction in hopes that it will be seen more often by both sides of the fence. Perhaps that is the goal of the story of the apple. To make us think.

 

[gnostic]

Why invent the Dark One to have someone to blame when one can just blame God?

Either way, man clearly does not take responsibility for his own failings.

But what of God's own failing?

 

[Jeremiah]

But what of God's own failing?

We are not to question Almighty God. Just be quiet you and follow blindly.

 

[lilithu]

" Very clearly you've been reading Kierkegaard."

I enjoy Kierkegaard. But I first gain a respect of faith from my father and my grandmother. Others have help me define and understand the nature of faith. Kierkegaard helped me come to a deeper understanding of faith much more then anyone else. Even if I don't understand half of what he writes. But if it had not been for others I would have never even looked. I have set faith aside though out of respect for my grandmother. She was so extraordinarily kind hearted I always thought it can't be all bad. I like to press the distinction in hopes that it will be seen more often by both sides of the fence. Perhaps that is the goal of the story of the apple. To make us think.

As an existentialist I say that the apple is moral choice. And that only by making a choice does one actually live, reach one's full potential as a moral agent, and create one's life thru one's choices. Socrates, an idealist, believed that we were unchanging souls and urged us to "Know Thyself." An existentialist knows that there is no self to know other than the one that one creates by one's choices. "Choose Thyself." It was inevitable that A&E would have chosen to eat of the fruit of knowledge. And not something to be mourned, as if mindless ignorance were the ideal state. The choice is to be celebrated humanity's coming of age.

 

[lilithu]

But what of God's own failing?

What failing would that be?

We are not to question Almighty God. Just be quiet you and follow blindly.

Knee-jerk rebellion is no more wise than blind acceptance.

 

[Jeremiah]

Knee-jerk rebellion is no more wise than blind acceptance.

Lilithu you don't know me and I would appreciate it if you'd stop pretending that you do. Let's stay focused on the debate. Perhaps my remark was a little to mocking but I did have a point behind it.

 

[gnostic]

What failing would that be?

Oh, you want me to list them.

His so-called much-vaunted "omniscience" for one.

Examples of this are.

He created man, but only to destroy them (Flood). First he regret creating mankind before the Flood, and then he express regret of destroying them. He doesn't have much foresight.

He place man and woman in Garden, then expect them to not to eat the fruit. If he knew everything, then why planted the Trees there in the 1st place?

he had Saul placed as king, but then did everything to rid of him. Failure in judgment.

 

[lilithu]

Lilithu you don't know me and I would appreciate it if you'd stop pretending that you do. Let's stay focused on the debate. Perhaps my remark was a little to mocking but I did have a point behind it.

Oh, so you are allowed to be "mocking" but I am not allowed to respond? Is that it? I had a point too.

You complain that my response did not represent you fairly but have no compunctions about making similar remarks. Unbelievable.

 

[Jeremiah]

Oh, so you are allowed to be "mocking" but I am not allowed to respond? Is that it? I had a point too.

You complain that my response did not represent you fairly but have no compunctions about making similar remarks. Unbelievable.

I did have a well thought our response typed up and I posted it just now. But I deleted it as I can see you don't really want to debate the topic. I don't know why you are so hostile towards me. But I really don't care anymore; don't expect any more response from me.

 

[Jeremiah]

We are told in Genesis that God kicked Man out of the Garden of Eden.
I Now propose this question,
Did Man kick God out of the Garden, and allowed the Dark one in?

How does a human kick an almighty being out of the garden? If God did leave it was on his own accord. Likewise; how does the "Dark one" get into the garden of an almighty & all-knowing being without approval of the being?

 

[lilithu]

Oh, you want me to list them.

His so-called much-vaunted "omniscience" for one.

His so-called much-vaunted "omniscience" is not a quality that is explicitly stated in scripture. That is a later attribute added on when early Christianity met Greek philosophy.

So.... what we have is a god who:

creates Adam and Eve, tells them not to eat the fruit. They do any way. He exiles them from Eden. I see no failing there. (Actually, as I said before, this was a good thing.)

created humans, and when they became evil, regretted his having created them. I see no failing there. He doesn't like evil. I agree with him.

so he sends a flood to destroy the evil-doers, after picking out the one man and his family who were still upright. OK, I probably would not have done that. But hey, he's new at the this god thing. He regrets the suffering he's caused. ie - he feels compassion for suffering. I see no failing in that regret.

places Saul as king when Saul was good. But then Saul turns corrupt, so god seeks to remove him. I see no failing there at all. :no:

The god of the Hebrew scriptures is a god who loves justice. That's what the stories say over and over again.

As a liberal I have a hard time with the idea that anyone is so wicked that they deserve to be obliterated. But if we don't take the stories literally (and I don't) what they're saying is that God punishes the wicked. For many people that's what justice means. And they are the ones who wrote these stories. There is no failing on god's part in the bible. He is exactly what the authors interpreted him to be.

 

[lilithu]

I did have a well thought our response typed up and I posted it just now. But I deleted it as I can see you don't really want to debate the topic. I don't know why you are so hostile towards me. But I really don't care anymore; don't expect any more response from me.

You ignore my post on an existential interpretation of the Fall and instead choose to take a cheap shot about following blindly. (Reinforcing my initial impression of you despite your many protests to the contrary.) And then you get mad when I respond to that cheap shot as if you are allowed to attack but others aren't, and now you wonder why I am so hostile. Go figure.

 

[Jeremiah]

You ignore my post on an existential interpretation of the Fall and instead choose to take a cheap shot about following blindly. (Reinforcing my initial impression of you despite your many protests to the contrary.) And then you get mad when I respond to that cheap shot as if you are allowed to attack but others aren't, and now you wonder why I am so hostile. Go figure.

"You ignore my post on an existential interpretation of the Fall"

"I did have a well thought our response typed up and I posted it just now. But I deleted it" - Me

I didn't ignore your post; I was working on the response.

 

[Jeremiah]

O Lilithu why do you hate me so? It makes me so sad.

 

[lilithu]

I did have a well thought our response typed up and I posted it just now. But I deleted it

Yeah, really mature.

O Lilithu why do you hate me so? It makes me so sad.

I sincerely hope you're not being serious. Just like your weren't serious when you said you would not be responding to me anymore, apparently.


I am going to sleep.