Adopting Middle Eastern Faiths as the end all to be all

[Epic Beard Man]

To me, the better question is: Is the river I'm swimming in resonating with the deepest invitation of my heart?

I don’t see how that does not relate to my original question....

 

[LuisDantas]

I find myself wondering how your experience with Dharma was.

 

[Kirran]

I am monotheistic. Agnostic-theism falls under this and yes although I respect religious traditions and their philosophies that have enriched my life, I am also a critic of certain religious tradition. This is not localized to those of the Abrahamic faiths.

I don’t trust Hindus, Sikhs, or any of the Dharmic faiths. I find people who believe in benevolent gods are not benevolent themselves and often are adherents to religion for cultural instead of spiritual reasons. But my beliefs are based on direct experiences. Now, I’m willing to have open dialogue but often times people disappoint.

Don't trust any teacher, any tradition, any religion, nothing. You don't really need any of it, if it's the Divine that you're after, it just helps you along. Trust your direct experiences, if that.

Someone once told me, in relation to looking for God: "Look within yourself before you look under the carpet".

Admittedly the first part of that quote is the more relevant one here

 

[Epic Beard Man]

In your opinion, can a person be both religious and free thinking? For example; a 'Liberal' Christian, Muslim, or Jew.

Sure. Averroes (Ibn-Rushd) was a good example. But considering the climate of his time, most thinkers within these faiths were often met with skepticism due to people fervently believing in religion without question. But to question and self-critique one’s faith is hard due to undying support.

Averroes once said “investigation is obligatory of the believer” because to think and analyze leads to confirmation of the deen or faith. But what I was insinuating was that traditionalist shy away from investigation because many think hard questioning may lead to apostasy.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Don't trust any teacher, any tradition, any religion, nothing. You don't really need any of it, if it's the Divine that you're after, it just helps you along. Trust your direct experiences, if that.

Someone once told me, in relation to looking for God: "Look within yourself before you look under the carpet".

Admittedly the first part of that quote is the more relevant one here

The problem with that is sometimes I don’t trust myself. I cannot take personal pain as my end all to be all. I believe I grow from learning from others. I don’t want to make up beliefs as I go. I know red is red and green is green so sometimes there are concrete rules. With that being said I can believe in God, but sometimes structure does help which is my own dilemma.

But to look within, I must first begin to define myself.

 

[Kirran]

The problem with that is sometimes I don’t trust myself. I cannot take personal pain as my end all to be all. I believe I grow from learning from others. I don’t want to make up beliefs as I go. I know red is red and green is green so sometimes there are concrete rules. With that being said I can believe in God, but sometimes structure does help which is my own dilemma.

But to look within, I must first begin to define myself.

Beliefs are, I think, a bit transitory. They shift. Remember they are just mental formulations. Structures are great! But they're not set in stone, y'know?

Ooh, maybe try looking at your definitions of yourself that you have already, and seeing if they hold any water.

 

[David1967]

But what I was insinuating was that traditionalist shy away from investigation because many think hard questioning may lead to apostasy.

I agree with this. I have talked to many people (traditionalist / fundamentalist) who are almost terrified to ask hard questions regarding their faith. Many times I've heard, "I'm not going there". IMO, if a persons faith can not or will not tolerate questions, something may well be lacking. If I remember correctly, Jesus got in a lot of trouble questioning the religious authorities of His time. Why would he want us to do differently than he did?

 

[LuisDantas]

It may be interesting to consider how liberal Christians deal with the same situation.

Many a Brazilian has a fairly complicated relationship with the RCC, often with very specific expectations and role delimitations.

 

[Spiderman]

@Epic Beard Man
My favorite movie growing up was called Zulu Dawn, a true story about over a thousand British soldiers with guns, cannons, and rocket launchers getting anihilated by Zulus armed with Spears.

If i had it my way the zulus would have owned the British on every battlefield, then invented ships that could sail to Great Britain, conquered Britain, killed the King and Queen, and ruled the whole Empire.

I'm not a fan of European colonization by any stretch.

However, I don't see Islamic conquest of Africa as better.

Islamic regimes and terrorist groups like El shabbab and Boko Haram, target, rape, or enslave countless African civilians and children as we speak, and there has been much bloodshed in Sudan, Congo, Libya, Egypt, Somalia, and elsewhere that is the result of Islamic conquest and oppression of Africans (destruction of original African culture and Religion).

Also, Christians did a lot of harm the continent, but many Christians were abolitionists who sacrificed and shed their blood to free slaves.

The costliest war in American History ended slavery, then countless Christians sacrificed for civil rights afterwards.

How about you don't favor Islam or Christianity, since both groups did so much to destroy African culture, and study African Shamanism that was practiced before the Christians and Muslims conquered and forced their Religion down everyone's throats?

 

[Jumi]

But to look within, I must first begin to define myself.

Some say we are like onions to be pealed, but the process of knowing ourselves is endless. Definitions may not always last when a layer is pealed, but self-definitions give us more freedom in direction and I find that there's even some enjoyment in that...

 

[sayak83]

I am monotheistic. Agnostic-theism falls under this and yes although I respect religious traditions and their philosophies that have enriched my life, I am also a critic of certain religious tradition. This is not localized to those of the Abrahamic faiths.

I don’t trust Hindus, Sikhs, or any of the Dharmic faiths. I find people who believe in benevolent gods are not benevolent themselves and often are adherents to religion for cultural instead of spiritual reasons. But my beliefs are based on direct experiences. Now, I’m willing to have open dialogue but often times people disappoint.

Can you elaborate on the Hindu, Sikh part?

 

[Spiderman]

Can you elaborate on the Hindu, Sikh part?

https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/jugglebandhi/the-indian-caste-system-is-based-on-racism/

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Can you elaborate on the Hindu, Sikh part?

A couple Sikhs own some businesses in Compton growing up. Of course in the “hood” a lot of African-Americans tend to ignorantly assume southern Asians (Indians) as Arabs. At any rate, many of them (Sikh Indians) tend to have stereotypical attitudes towards African-Americans. Despite their god that is supposed to encourage benevolence, many have judged me based on the local crack heads as if we all the same. Many of them have bad attitudes.

Hindus are an interesting bunch. They tend to own some of the most nasty run down motels in the hood. Ironic cause in almost everyone of them when you approach the window you see a picture of their god with the symbolic symbol of a “red dot” on their head. I remember when I needed a place to stay because I was intoxicated at a party dress shirt, slacks and nice pants and all I was turned away. I was very polite despite being intoxicated and I pleaded that I just needed a place to stay due to my intoxication. He declined due to claiming there was no vacancy.

Out of curiousity, I called the same place and pretended to be a “white guy” and miraculously there was a vacancy. Then I told the man I was the same guy who was told that there was no vacancy. He stuttered and hung up. Point is, growing up most people of these faiths simply do not like us despite my polite demeanor because I am in the same boat. My grievance is simply cultural. But like Christians, I would expect their faith would encourage them to transcend their mindset above simple prejudices.

Hence is why I don’t trust them. Don’t call yourself a believer in your Brahaman or

 

[Spiderman]

A couple Sikhs own some businesses in Compton growing up. Of course in the “hood” a lot of African-Americans tend to ignorantly assume southern Asians (Indians) as Arabs. At any rate, many of them (Sikh Indians) tend to have stereotypical attitudes towards African-Americans. Despite their god that is supposed to encourage benevolence, many have judged me based on the local crack heads as if we all the same. Many of them have bad attitudes.

Hindus are an interesting bunch. They tend to own some of the most nasty run down motels in the hood. Ironic cause in almost everyone of them when you approach the window you see a picture of their god with the symbolic symbol of a “red dot” on their head. I remember when I needed a place to stay because I was intoxicated at a party dress shirt, slacks and nice pants and all I was turned away. I was very polite despite being intoxicated and I pleaded that I just needed a place to stay due to my intoxication. He declined due to claiming there was no vacancy.

Out of curiousity, I called the same place and pretended to be a “white guy” and miraculously there was a vacancy. Then I told the man I was the same guy who was told that there was no vacancy. He stuttered and hung up. Point is, growing up most people of these faiths simply do not like us despite my polite demeanor because I am in the same boat. My grievance is simply cultural. But like Christians, I would expect their faith would encourage them to transcend their mindset above simple prejudices.

Hence is why I don’t trust them. Don’t call yourself a believer in your Brahaman or

No way! You can't be telling the truth! I didn't know that kind of discrimination still happened in America! I guess now I see more why you're p*ssed at us! I don't think that happens here in the Twin cities! Not to anyone who has a job and degree. They are better Americans than myself.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So it really does beg the question, what is truth if this truth only speaks to the outgroup instead of your group?

What is the purpose of seeking truth if we are ultimately unwilling to make the changes and sacrifices necessary to embrace that truth? If we are not prepared to leave our in-group to become part of the out-group then we are not worthy receipts of that truth. To embrace the new we must be prepared to abandon the old.

 

[Spiderman]

What is the purpose of seeking truth if we are ultimately unwilling to make the changes and sacrifices necessary to embrace that truth? If we are not prepared to leave our in-group to become part of the out-group then we are not worthy receipts of that truth. To embrace the new we must be prepared to abandon the old.

I don't think so sir! He should stick with the African Shamanism before Abrahamism invaded and robbed African's of their culture and Religion!

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't think so sir! He should stick with the African Shamanism before Abrahamism invaded and robbed African's of their culture and Religion!

Lol. I had something more radical in mind. Abstinence from alcohol, celibacy and becoming a Muslim!

 

[Sundance]

I have to credit @Audie for the comment she made regarding the adoption of the “middle eastern sky god cult as if it’s their story.”


In regarding some Judaic/Islamic eschatology I often read that the language of heaven is often related to the people that narrates the story, in this case the “Heavenly Torah” is written in the language of Jews while the spoken language of Jannah, is the language of Arabs.

Even in my experiences I noticed a superiority attitude among some of the adherents. I find I have no cultural ties to Judaism because one, I speak English not Hebrew nor are the stories of the prophets have a cultural relationship with my ancestors. Similar with Islam. Often times reverts to Islam must pray in Arabic (although other prayers may be done in your own language). Some even understanding the Sunnah of the prophet emulate him by eating dates.

I’ve never ate dates except once and it was nasty. I often see members wearing middle eastern clothing, adopting mannerisms, etc. Christianity, was a forced faith upon the enslaved Africans therefore I find Christianity today in the states an illegitimate faith for African-Americans. I can’t imagine telling slaves to adopt “white Jesus” to save you while being on the boat during the middle passage in the bellows sleeping in human excrement and vomit for months, then you still die despite this spiritual reprieve.

What is my story?

I find none of the popular religions that exist today have a personal relationship with me culturally. None speaks to me culturally. This perplexed me this morning so I say thank you @Audie for actually putting things in perspective. Because it does seem that we tend to adopt each other’s faiths as the end all l. So it really does beg the question, what is truth if this truth only speaks to the outgroup instead of your group?

If we look deeply in the popular faiths you find, the first humans the location of the garden, the final battle etcetera are all in the Middle East not Africa, not Compton California but in the Middle East, truly peculiar.

As another African-American man, EBM, I can attest to what you’re thinking about, especially in relation to Africans both on the continent and in the diaspora. Outside of forced conversions, my conjecture as to what made Abrahamic religions so appealing is that they mesh well with traditional ways of understanding religion, both in terms of what teachings traditional African religions hand down to us and in their open-minded approach to foreign religions.

As for us in the Diaspora, while Christianity was indeed – in a very heavy-hitting way – forced on Black people, in the stories of The Bible, many of our ancestors found a message of hope, the impetus for our emancipation as a people. Sometimes, Black people were not even allowed to read the Bible because the slave masters feared that the Ancestors were going to be inspired to fight for freedom and equality through it. Judaism was practically the same scenario. An ethnoreligious group of people whose history and experiences much paralleled our own. Slavery, exile, discrimination, repatriation. The whole nine.

As for Islam, it's very much connected to Africa and Black people. The first man to ever give the call to prayer, Bilal, was Ethiopian. It's said that he even had a beautiful singing voice. Black people were among the closest companions of the Prophet Muhammad Himself (saw). Several West African kingdoms and empires, including the Songhai Empire and the Dahomey Kingdom, were Islamic enpires. Black people were also the very first Muslims in the United States. Yes. Black slaves brought Islam to the West!


As for the linguistic aspects, I suppose those are the reflections of the cultures in which the Abrahamic faiths were birthed.

 

[Spiderman]

As another African-American man, EBM, I can attest to what you’re thinking about, especially in relation to Africans both on the continent and in the diaspora. Outside of forced conversions, my conjecture as to what made Abrahamic religions so appealing is that they mesh well with traditional ways of understanding religion, both in terms of what teachings traditional African religions hand down to us and in their open-minded approach to foreign religions.

As for us in the Diaspora, while Christianity was indeed – in a very heavy-hitting way – forced on Black people, in the stories of The Bible, many of our ancestors found a message of hope, the impetus for our emancipation as a people. Sometimes, Black people were not even allowed to read the Bible because the slave masters feared that the Ancestors were going to be inspired to fight for freedom and equality through it. Judaism was practically the same scenario. An ethnoreligious group of people whose history and experiences much paralleled our own. Slavery, exile, discrimination, repatriation. The whole nine.

As for Islam, it's very much connected to Africa and Black people. The first man to ever give the call to prayer, Bilal, was Ethiopian. It's said that he even had a beautiful singing voice. Black people were among the closest companions of the Prophet Muhammad Himself (saw). Several West African kingdoms and empires, including the Songhai Empire and the Dahomey Kingdom, were Islamic enpires. Black people were also the very first Muslims in the United States. Yes. Black slaves brought Islam to the West!


As for the linguistic aspects, I suppose those are the reflections of the cultures in which the Abrahamic faiths were birthed.

Islam, just like Christianity, violently persecuted, oppressed, and enslaved Africans, and are responsible for an enormous amounts of terrorism, rape, mass-murder, and civil war in Africa, even in the 21st century!

How about abandoning Abrahamism, and going back to African Shamanism, before the Islamic and Christian invasion??

 

[Sakeenah]

As another African-American man, EBM, I can attest to what you’re thinking about, especially in relation to Africans both on the continent and in the diaspora. Outside o

As for us in the Diaspora, while Christianity was indeed –
As for Islam, it's very much connected to Africa and Black people. The first man to ever give the call to prayer, Bilal, was Ethiopian. It's said that he even had a beautiful singing voice. Black people were among the closest companions of the Prophet Muhammad Himself (saw). Several West African kingdoms and empires, including the Songhai Empire and the Dahomey Kingdom, were Islamic enpires. Black people were also the very first Muslims in the United States. Yes. Black slaves brought Islam to the West!


As for the linguistic aspects, I suppose those are the reflections of the cultures in which the Abrahamic faiths were birthed.

Beautifully said. As an East African Muslim I believe Islam is compatible with my culture,and I think my North, West and South African brothers and sisters would say the same.