Adopting Middle Eastern Faiths as the end all to be all

[Kirran]

"Since 1944 Arabs have been considered white by law. "
https://medium.com/gender-theory/arabs-in-proximity-to-whiteness-7fd0e89dd7fb

The decisions of the 1944 US government have about as little relevance as one can imagine anything to have to the social situation of the early Islamic era.

 

[Spiderman]

The decisions of the 1944 US government have about as little relevance as one can imagine anything to have to the social situation of the early Islamic era.

I was pointing out that a prophet and many early followers of an Abrahamic Religion were legally white by law, and that they invaded, conquered, oppressed, enslaved, and killed millions of Africans. They also destroyed African culture and condemned the sacred Religions that were founded by Africans.

I was just explaining to the OP that there are rich, interesting, spiritual traditions and practices founded by Africans that are not atrocious and oppressive like middle-Eastern faiths have been.

 

[Spiderman]

I was pointing out that a prophet and many early followers of an Abrahamic Religion were legally white by law, and that they invaded, conquered, oppressed, enslaved, and killed millions of Africans. They also destroyed African culture and condemned the sacred Religions that were founded by Africans.

I was just explaining to the OP that there are rich, interesting, spiritual traditions and practices founded by Africans that are not atrocious and oppressive like middle-Eastern faiths have been.

And they continue to start many armed conflicts that oppress and kill countless African people even in the 21st century.

 

[Jumi]

I was just explaining to the OP that there are rich, interesting, spiritual traditions and practices founded by Africans that are not atrocious and oppressive like middle-Eastern faiths have been.

Then how can you be Catholic?

 

[Spiderman]

Then how can you be Catholic?

I reject any bigotry, violence, or hate in the Bible or Catholic history and Doctrine.

I go to mass but consider myself more into Shintoism and Shamanism than Catholicism.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

"Since 1944 Arabs have been considered white by law. "
https://medium.com/gender-theory/arabs-in-proximity-to-whiteness-7fd0e89dd7fb

You're using a Gender theory website as proof?

From your own website source:

"Although the Arab community in the United States is considered white by law (yes, we check the Caucasian box because we are a labeled within that category), we do not receive the same privileges that come with whiteness. This has always been the case but especially now in a post 9–11 America."

Arabs are considered white by law (this is a United States classification not a cultural classification that is globally accepted), Arabs do not receive the same privileges as white. But since this about Muhammad's lineage let's look at it:

Bertram Thomas, Cambridge educated historian and Finance Minister, reported in his work ‘The Arabs (New York, Doubleday 1937):

“The original inhabitants of Arabia…were not the familiar Arabs of our time but a very much darker people. A proto-'negroid' belt of mankind stretched across the ancient world from Africa to Malaya. This belt…(gave) rise to the Hamitic peoples of Africa, to the Dravidian peoples of India, and to an intermediate dark people inhabiting the Arabian peninsula. In the course of time two big migrations of fair-skinned peoples came from the north."
Also, "Where the grammar of the Arabic, now spoken by the ‘pure’ Arabs, differs from that of the north, it approaches to or coincides with the Ethiopians. The general habits of the people,-given to sedentary rather than nomad occupations, fond of village life, of society, of dance and music; good cultivators of the soil, tolerable traders, moderate artisans, have much more in common with those of the inhabitants of the African than with those of the western Asiatic continent."

But that is besides the point, but I only wanted to point that out because I think you jump the gun and aren't familiar with African/Arab history in that region.

And the last post you quoted was totally on topic because I was explaining why there are African Religions that are more compassionate and less bigoted and violent than Abrahamic middle-eastern Religions.

But this whole thread isn't [specifically] about bigotry, but about adopting popular middle eastern religious faiths.

 

[Kirran]

I was pointing out that a prophet and many early followers of an Abrahamic Religion were legally white by law, and that they invaded, conquered, oppressed, enslaved, and killed millions of Africans. They also destroyed African culture and condemned the sacred Religions that were founded by Africans.

I was just explaining to the OP that there are rich, interesting, spiritual traditions and practices founded by Africans that are not atrocious and oppressive like middle-Eastern faiths have been.

No, they were not legally white. There was no such thing for over a thousand years after the death of Muhammad.

 

[Spiderman]

Then how can you be Catholic?

Im about love, compassion, non-violence, social justice and equality. Im about respecting all people and cultures, and my only objection to any Religion is when they use Religion to set up oppressive governments. Catholicism has done that and I do not in any way approve of it.

You're using a Gender theory website as proof?

From your own website source:

"Although the Arab community in the United States is considered white by law (yes, we check the Caucasian box because we are a labeled within that category), we do not receive the same privileges that come with whiteness. This has always been the case but especially now in a post 9–11 America."

Arabs are considered white by law (this is a United States classification not a cultural classification that is globally accepted), Arabs do not receive the same privileges as white. But since this about Muhammad's lineage let's look at it:

Bertram Thomas, Cambridge educated historian and Finance Minister, reported in his work ‘The Arabs (New York, Doubleday 1937):

“The original inhabitants of Arabia…were not the familiar Arabs of our time but a very much darker people. A proto-'negroid' belt of mankind stretched across the ancient world from Africa to Malaya. This belt…(gave) rise to the Hamitic peoples of Africa, to the Dravidian peoples of India, and to an intermediate dark people inhabiting the Arabian peninsula. In the course of time two big migrations of fair-skinned peoples came from the north."
Also, "Where the grammar of the Arabic, now spoken by the ‘pure’ Arabs, differs from that of the north, it approaches to or coincides with the Ethiopians. The general habits of the people,-given to sedentary rather than nomad occupations, fond of village life, of society, of dance and music; good cultivators of the soil, tolerable traders, moderate artisans, have much more in common with those of the inhabitants of the African than with those of the western Asiatic continent."

But that is besides the point, but I only wanted to point that out because I think you jump the gun and aren't familiar with African/Arab history in that region.



But this whole thread isn't [specifically] about bigotry, but about adopting popular middle eastern religious faiths.

Muhammad was allegedly a descendant of Abraham. I have met such descendants and middle-easterners or seen them on TV, and they are often no darker than Italians.

My only point is that there are religions founded by people who have a lot more in common with you than middleastern Abrahamic faiths, and that has everything to do with some of what you said in the OP.

 

[Spiderman]

No, they were not legally white. There was no such thing for over a thousand years after the death of Muhammad.

I was using the comment in the context of law.

I am technically not white either. Im olive complected.

 

[Kirran]

I was using the comment in the context of law.

I am technically not white either. Im olive complected.

The law of the post-1944 USA? Rather than the law of 7th Century Arabia?

Incorrect..you should do some research on the spread of Islam in Africa. Conquest did not play a major role in the spread of the religion into the region.

Lot of it was Sufis, wasn't it?

Boosted, no doubt, by state patronage etc.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Im about love, compassion, non-violence, social justice and equality. Im about respecting all people and cultures, and my only objection to any Religion is when they use Religion to set up oppressive governments. Catholicism has done that and I do not in any way approve of it.

Muhammad was allegedly a descendant of Abraham. I have met such descendants and middle-easterners or seen them on TV, and they are often no darker than Italians.

My only point is that there are religions founded by people who have a lot more in common with you than middleastern Abrahamic faiths, and that has everything to do with some of what you said in the OP.

Ok I give up

 

[Sakeenah]

Lot of it was Sufis, wasn't it?

Boosted, no doubt, by state patronage etc.

yes, majority were sufis.

 

[Kirran]

yes, majority were sufis.

I think Sufi brotherhoods are still a big deal in lots of Sub-Saharan Africa - is this true of Somalia?

 

[Sakeenah]

I think Sufi brotherhoods are still a big deal in lots of Sub-Saharan Africa - is this true of Somalia?

Sorry, I should have said they are. Sufism is still popular, especially in West and North Africa. Suffism is still a big deal in Somalia but not like it used to be. Kirran, I think we are derailing the thread, pm me.

 

[Spiderman]

I think Abrahamic middleastern faiths are hostile towards the original Religions, spirituality, traditions, and culture of the original inhabitants of Africa.

That was the point I was trying to make!

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think Abrahamic middleastern faiths are hostile towards the original Religions, spirituality, traditions, and culture of the original inhabitants of Africa.

That was the point I was trying to make!

This is the last time I will say this... stop detailing the threads man.

 

[Spiderman]

This is the last time I will say this... stop detailing the threads man.

It was on topic to your OP statement:
"Christianity, was a forced faith upon the enslaved Africans".

And you said that is why Christianity is unacceptable.

I was pointing out that another Middleastern faith you favor committed similar atrocities against Africans and continues to do so today. So it is not acceptable for the same reasons.

But I'll try not to post on this thread anymore.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

I have to credit @Audie for the comment she made regarding the adoption of the “middle eastern sky god cult as if it’s their story.”


In regarding some Judaic/Islamic eschatology I often read that the language of heaven is often related to the people that narrates the story, in this case the “Heavenly Torah” is written in the language of Jews while the spoken language of Jannah, is the language of Arabs.

Even in my experiences I noticed a superiority attitude among some of the adherents. I find I have no cultural ties to Judaism because one, I speak English not Hebrew nor are the stories of the prophets have a cultural relationship with my ancestors. Similar with Islam. Often times reverts to Islam must pray in Arabic (although other prayers may be done in your own language). Some even understanding the Sunnah of the prophet emulate him by eating dates.

I’ve never ate dates except once and it was nasty. I often see members wearing middle eastern clothing, adopting mannerisms, etc. Christianity, was a forced faith upon the enslaved Africans therefore I find Christianity today in the states an illegitimate faith for African-Americans. I can’t imagine telling slaves to adopt “white Jesus” to save you while being on the boat during the middle passage in the bellows sleeping in human excrement and vomit for months, then you still die despite this spiritual reprieve.

What is my story?

I find none of the popular religions that exist today have a personal relationship with me culturally. None speaks to me culturally. This perplexed me this morning so I say thank you @Audie for actually putting things in perspective. Because it does seem that we tend to adopt each other’s faiths as the end all l. So it really does beg the question, what is truth if this truth only speaks to the outgroup instead of your group?

If we look deeply in the popular faiths you find, the first humans the location of the garden, the final battle etcetera are all in the Middle East not Africa, not Compton California but in the Middle East, truly peculiar.

I agree. The abrahamic faiths doesn't really mesh with out present day culture, but I guess the reason why people still choose them is because of out innate desire to find meaning in life when there is none.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It was on topic to your OP statement:
"Christianity, was a forced faith upon the enslaved Africans".

And you said that is why Christianity is unacceptable.

I was pointing out that another Middleastern faith you favor committed similar atrocities against Africans and continues to do so today. So it is not acceptable for the same reasons.

But I'll try not to post on this thread anymore.

When I posted about Christianity forced upon Africans I was saying that in conjunction to my opinions regarding the Abrahamic faiths and my relationship with them. But I only briefly mentioned the history of the early Africans to the Americas but I didn't want that to overwhelm the entire discussion. You have to understand that the African Diaspora is a very complex one. African-Americans are so torn away from their primordial faiths that the only religion of the Abrahamic traditions we are familiar with is Islam (thus is why the Nation of Islam became so popular among the African-Americans during the time of Malcolm) and some animist, a very few primordial African faiths. But the point is due to the system of slavery and the destruction of my ancestral culture, I do not have a relationship with any faith I can trace my ancestral tradition back to thus I am a stranger. But the discussion of slavery, and Arab influence takes away from the spirit of my point.

 

[Spiderman]

When I posted about Christianity forced upon Africans I was saying that in conjunction to my opinions regarding the Abrahamic faiths and my relationship with them. But I only briefly mentioned the history of the early Africans to the Americas but I didn't want that to overwhelm the entire discussion. You have to understand that the African Diaspora is a very complex one. African-Americans are so torn away from their primordial faiths that the only religion of the Abrahamic traditions we are familiar with is Islam (thus is why the Nation of Islam became so popular among the African-Americans during the time of Malcolm) and some animist, a very few primordial African faiths. But the point is due to the system of slavery and the destruction of my ancestral culture, I do not have a relationship with any faith I can trace my ancestral tradition back to thus I am a stranger. But the discussion of slavery, and Arab influence takes away from the spirit of my point.

Okay, that was well said!