Adulterating Pure Worship

[Deeje]

No one cares about your hateful and idiotic JW propaganda. Let me repeat to you: to many, it's your god who is the "demon".

Oh please Frank!.....wasn't he your god on and off for all the years you've been here at RF? You've switched religions so many times its hard to know who or what you believe....if you are now a worshipper of satan (again) then I believe that your god is the demon....sorry.

That post was hateful and idiotic. Why bother with a comment like that? Is that debating?

How can you have any credibility to comment when you can't even decide who the true God is from month to month......Will you be Catholic again next week?

Please, if you have nothing of value to add to the discussion, then refrain from commenting. OK?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Oh please Frank!.....wasn't he your god on and off for all the years you've been here at RF? You've switched religions so many times its hard to know who or what you believe....if you are now a worshipper of satan (again) then I believe that your god is the demon....sorry.

That post was hateful and idiotic. Why bother with a comment like that? Is that debating?

How can you have any credibility to comment when you can't even decide who the true God is from month to month......Will you be Catholic again next week?

Please, if you have nothing of value to add to the discussion, then refrain from commenting. OK?

Lol, buzz off.

 

[Deeje]

Lol, buzz off.

Its true though...ain't it....?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Its true though...ain't it....?

I'm not interested in playing games with you. Your can enjoy your ad hominems.

 

[Clara Tea]

President George W. Bush defied God (and his warning in Revelation not to attack Babylon), and that put the world in the end times (all life will be destroyed). A million innocent Iraqis murdered, some American soldiers now in the Wounded Warrior Program, and there was a torture camp in Guantanamo. Like his father, the dragon, W. Bush stirred a cauldron of eye of newt and summoned demons with Latin hexes at Skull and Bones meetings at Yale.

And you are worried about Santa?

When you focus on the letter of God's laws, and ignore the meaning, God is infuriated.

Regardless of the pagan past, Christmas is a time to forget the woes of the world (Revelation 15: 7 plagues), economic disaster, droughts, famine, homeless, pestilence (giant Asian hornets), etc.

Now is the time to think of snow men, a warm fireplace, children's awe when they see presents under the tree, egg nog, decorated trees and houses, the smell of pine, reunion with family, a huge turkey dinner with all of the trimmings (including yams with marshmallows).

Forget your troubles, and enjoy life, amid the sorrow and worry.

 

[Wandering Monk]

As you know, 'Satan' is Hebrew for 'Adversary', and in the earlier books of the Tanakh he's a courier at Yahweh's HQ, not Milton's revolutionary. The story, or play, of Job has God making a bet with him, for instance.

But if God is omnipotent then Satan, and demons (in the Christian sense) generally, can only exist in accordance with God's will.

In Israel today, a prosecuting attorney is called 'satan.'

 

[Brickjectivity]

...pure worship?...

Is I think a foreign concept to most bible readers. We tend to load it up with superstition, because worship has no definition in the text and because people fill our ears with superstitions. Some people believe worship rises. Some believe its like an energy. Others think of it as a mystical gateway to meet with God. Some find it to be something that they sense with their emotions. Others believe its almost like a substance which the archangel collects and then presents to God. There are so many superstitions about it. Um its quite a mess I think, and I think that your concerns about Christmas trees and so forth are somehow tied to superstitions about this term worship. Just a friendly suggestion.

 

[74x12]

The date of December 25th,

As I pointed out in the other thread the date is significant for it's solar significance. The day grows shorter all year and on that day it begins to grow longer. The point here is that it is a significant day without paganism or anything but the sun. And God made the sun ... and part of the reason he made the sun was for "signs, seasons, days and years".

That's why it's not necessarily wrong to celebrate Jesus' birth on that day even though it was significant to the pagans it's like the favorite spot on the beach. It's favorite because everyone likes it.

 

[blü 2]

In Israel today, a prosecuting attorney is called 'satan.'

Thanks. I'll remember to stay well clear of him.

 

[Glaurung]

For goodness' sake.

The notion that any act of religion or religious culture not explicitly enjoined in scripture amounts to pagan worship is fallacious thinking. There is nothing 'pagan' about Christmas. Christmas is the liturgical solemnity dedicated to the Nativity of Jesus.

This tiresome idea that we're inundated with every year is driven by anachronism. Either a cultic 19th century biblicism or nonsensical notions of cultural appropriation wherein Christianity is one big conspiracy to assimilate the festivals of other religions. Like some kind of religious Borg.

Now it is true that as Europe Christianized certain cultural artifacts became associated with the festive season. But this is no more of a problem than the fact that we're having this discussion composing our thoughts using a 'pagan' script (Latin) in a 'pagan' language (English). After all, I've seen no one argue that because the scriptures are in Hebrew and Greek and their respective scripts, all other languages and scripts must therefore be unacceptable for the true Christian. No, no one claims that because it would be a ludicrous inference to draw. And it is just as ludicrous to argue that by putting gifts under the family Christmas tree I'm offering sacrifice to some Germanic tree goddess. I'm doing no such thing.

Spoiler: Becuase everyone knows that

The correct way to do that is to first sacrifice a bunny, and then while naked, circumambulate the Christmas tree counterclockwise while chanting praises to Sol and Eostre in Old Norse. If you want to get fancy you may swing a thurible during the circumambulations.

 

[pearl]

This sacrifice was not a sacrifice for sins or guilt, but rather of thanksgiving. It meant a person had a good conscious and wanted to offer, voluntarily, a sacrifice of thanksgiving to Jehovah God. The one offering the communion sacrifice ate of it along with his family, 'with' Jehovah. Signifying the peaceful relation they had with him.

I believe it this is called a 'Todah' sacrifice.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Another nonsensical thread that posits "I'm right and all others are into paganism!".

"Physician, heal thyself!" instead of pointing a finger at everyone else, whereas three point right back at you.

No, the Bible’s right. Some are just trying to honor Jehovah, and others don’t care.

Let’s put it this way...the analogy fits...

Do you, metis, think a person can regularly commit fornication (i.e., on purpose), and still be pleasing to God?

Or do we need to refrain from some actions?
Does the world make it easy to obey God, or more difficult?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There have been a number of threads recently on Christmas and its pagan origins. There is plenty of information in secular history, in any Encyclopedia, in the threads on this website even, about the unbiblical practices and pagan traditions that became known as Christmas.

Most Christians from the churches of Christendom these days are not ignorant of the pagan roots of Christmas, but they excuse them away. "It's the thought that counts." "It's a family tradition." "I don't think God cares about the pagan origins," and we go on and on with their excuses to why it is okay to celebrate a pagan holiday dressed as something holy to God.

So reasoning from the scriptures, getting the mind of God on things, what does he really think about mixing pagan rites, traditions, and worship with pure worship?

I was studying some of the requirements of offering a sacrifice pleasing to God under the Mosaic law a couple weeks ago, and reasoning on Jehovah's view of holiness might give us an idea of how he views mixing false religion with pure worship.

For example, in Leviticus 7:11, 12 a person whose heart moved him could offer a communion sacrifice to God.

This sacrifice was not a sacrifice for sins or guilt, but rather of thanksgiving. It meant a person had a good conscious and wanted to offer, voluntarily, a sacrifice of thanksgiving to Jehovah God. The one offering the communion sacrifice ate of it along with his family, 'with' Jehovah. Signifying the peaceful relation they had with him.

But were just any sacrifices pleasing to Jehovah? No! Notice what Jehovah said about anyone offering a communion sacrifice that was unclean:

"But any person who is unclean and eats the flesh of the communion sacrifice, which is for Jehovah, that person must be cut off from his people."-Leviticus 7:20.

A person could not offer a communion sacrifice to Jehovah if they were unclean for any reason. First, they had to give a sin or guilt offering to sanctify themselves before Jehovah, and then they were allowed to eat of the communion meal with Jehovah. If they were to offer the communion sacrifice in an unclean state they were to be put to death.

So while no one is under the law today, that gives us a glimpse of Jehovah's view of being unclean and trying to be at peace with Jehovah. One first must cleanse themselves of all uncleanliness, then they may have a good relation with Jehovah.

So what of the pagan practices that Christendom has adopted. Does God view them as clean and acceptable?

Scripture says, concerning the pagan practices of the nations:

"No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons."-1 Corinthians 10:20, 21.

The rituals and traditions of the pagans that are at the roots of the traditions in Christmas are really things sacrificed to demons. And God says you cannot be partaking of the table of Jehovah and at the same time the table of the demons.

Can one really sit down at the communion table to eat and be at peace with Jehovah God, and at the same time use practices and traditions dedicated to demons?

So... only Christian worship is "pure," and Pagans worship "demons?"

Seems that your post tells us more about your prejudices than it does about Christmas.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Satan made himself the adversary. He was created a perfect angel, and he soon will be crushed according to God's will.

So rebelling against God is something perfect angels do?

 

[viole]

"But any person who is unclean and eats the flesh of the communion sacrifice, which is for Jehovah, that person must be cut off from his people."-Leviticus 7:20.

What a great way to leave that bunch of bigots.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Brickjectivity]

This thread is an example of why Paul is quoted to say "We cast down argument."

Think of the sheer incomprehensible opposite-ness and avoidance of scripture it takes to swallow this paradise lost stuff, and then think of the audacity to tell other people they just haven't read the scripture enough to accept XY or Z. You create cognitive dissonance. At the same time you can feel out who is responsive and who isn't.

Its very, very simple; and we see it every day. You make people doubt themselves, question their own intelligence. Then you overshadow them with arguments they aren't prepared for. Then you capture them. Its not the same as conversion...not at all.

 

[metis]

Do you, metis, think a person can regularly commit fornication (i.e., on purpose), and still be pleasing to God?

What does this have to do with the OP? And do you honestly believe that the JW's have some sort of monopoly on morality?

Or do we need to refrain from some actions?

Of course, but that's not just true with the JW's, thus you're barking up the wrong tree.

Does the world make it easy to obey God, or more difficult?

The "world" shouldn't be stereotyped.

To deny that other denominations and religions teach basic morals is evil in and of itself, but your Governing Body has their blind believers brainwashed into believing that somehow it's only JW's that are pleasing to God. How judgmental and how utterly childish that is.

 

[1213]

There are several threads about the subject already. But just about everything in Christmas is of pagan origin. The date of December 25th, the giving of gifts, both parts of the festivities of the Saturnalia - Wikipedia....

I think pagans have no privilege to be only ones that have 25th as day of celebration or giving gifts. Celebrating, 25 th of December and giving gifts are not something that is only for pagans and no one else can do that. Pagan thing would be if they would worship some other gods. If Christians don’t do that, there is really no problem. But, I agree that people should take care that they don’t worship false gods.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

What does this have to do with the OP? And do you honestly believe that the JW's have some sort of monopoly on morality?

Of course, but that's not just true with the JW's, thus you're barking up the wrong tree.

The "world" shouldn't be stereotyped.

To deny that other denominations and religions teach basic morals is evil in and of itself, but your Governing Body has their blind believers brainwashed into believing that somehow it's only JW's that are pleasing to God. How judgmental and how utterly childish that is.

You built a strawman.

Did I mention Witnesses anywhere? Nope.

it applies to everyone.

And you didn’t answer the question, ‘If a person sleeps around, would God accept their worship?’
Do you want to answer?

 

[metis]

You built a strawman.

Did I mention Witnesses anywhere? Nope.

No "strawman" as that is what you are, and you persistently post their teachings. Are you into denial? ashamed?

And you didn’t answer the question, ‘If a person sleeps around, would God accept their worship?’
Do you want to answer?

I'm not the judge-- God is-- nor do I consider myself to be God's advisor. So, what's your point?

What I do know is this:
Matt.7[1]Judge not, that you be not judged.
[2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.
[3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Maybe you should better reflect what Jesus taught on this, eh?