Advaita: What gives sentiency to a thing?

[The Crimson Universe]

The universe, rivers, rocks, koshas etc. they're all manifestations of that One Consciousness/Brahman.

These manifestations are being set in motion (or given an apparent sentiency) by Brahman.

Some of the manifestations are dense while some are subtle.
Some has the ability to move, breathe, eat, comprehend etc. while others are devoid of life.

... Now, if all is Consciousness according to Advaita, then why stones or mountains aren't conscious of their surroundings?
... If all names & forms are being animated (made so called sentient) by Brahman, then why do some objects like rocks lack sentiency?

 

[The Crimson Universe]

...

What is it that infuses life into humans?

If the answer is Atman that infuses life to a human, then isn't Atman and Brahman the same thing in Advaita school?
Both space inside the pot and space outside is the same space. Isn't it?

Some of you will say that the word Brahman has an universal god like tone to it, while the word Atman is used to refer to the True Self (the drop).

... But unlike the dualists, Advaita clearly denies separate unique individual Selves within each bodies.
...The Self of Hitler and the Self of Gandhi are/were one and the same.

...That is, as per Advaita, what APPEARS to be a separate Self/Atman/Drop inside the 5 koshas, is actually nothing but the same infinite indivisible Brahman that is outside. It appears separate because of the upadhis/sheaths. Once the sheaths are dropped, advaita says they're one and the same.

This is why the Advaitins use these two words Atman and Brahman interchangeably to point to the same One Reality.
Its not like, that the space inside holds some special powers that grants sentiency to the koshas, while the space outside lacks any such powers.
I don't think its like that at all. The space outside holds the same amount of power that makes the planets revolve around the sun.

So then what is it that grants life to the human or animal body?
(Sorry for the long post).

 

[ameyAtmA]

Who told you rivers are not sentient?
I am a galaxy. Yamuna is a river. Ganga is a river. NarmadA is a river. ChandrabhAgA is a river. Govardhan is a hill.
(The holy rivers are goddesses doing us a favour.).

I am each star and galaxy and planet.

Wait... did you just call the Universe insentient?
You called me insentient?
Are you sure you do not want to take that aparAdh back?


VishwaM VishNur vashaTkAra bhUta bhavya bhavatprabhU ...

First name in VishNu SahasranAma is VishwaM and you called it insentient? How could you?

Anyhow ,
rocks -- extreme tAmas. tamoguNa unless one resides in them.

prANa = breath, jeeva-prANa is what makes something alive.
Organisms are made sentient via their working system , and the recorded accumulated samskaars make the jeeva develop the I (false i) , the ahaMkaar. Manas and buddhi develop in higher organisms due to a more advanced OS.

prANa surrounds the jeeva surrounds the [param]AtmA , and this composite leaves the body at death but the vAyu aspect of prANa goes away with the 5 elements.
The parA-prakRuti -- subtle energy called jeeva proceeds to leave with my consciousness
jeev is that which does not know it is actually me.

 

[ameyAtmA]

It is like asking
Why does my laptop boot and come alive but my table doesn't?

 

[ajay0]

The universe, rivers, rocks, koshas etc. they're all manifestations of that One Consciousness/Brahman.

These manifestations are being set in motion (or given an apparent sentiency) by Brahman.

Some of the manifestations are dense while some are subtle.
Some has the ability to move, breathe, eat, comprehend etc. while others are devoid of life.

... Now, if all is Consciousness according to Advaita, then why stones or mountains aren't conscious of their surroundings?
... If all names & forms are being animated (made so called sentient) by Brahman, then why do some objects like rocks lack sentiency?

Meditate, perform selfless service, loving devotion to God, practice self-inquiry, adhere to virtuous conduct and attain enlightenment.

Then like the enlightened sages of past and present, you will be able to see for yourself whether the material manifestation is sentient or not, whether the unitary state of pure consciousness pervades all of material diversity !

Here is an appetizer...

“There is One unchanging indivisible Reality which, though unmanifest, reveals Itself in infinite multiplicity and diversity.” ~ Anandamayi Ma


It is through the multiplicity of name and form that one can arrive at the One. It is from this One that this Infinite Variety has manifested. In the end all return to that effulgent One.~ Shivayogini Matha (1923-1981)

 

[Viswa]

...

So then what is it that grants life to the human or animal body?
(Sorry for the long post).

Is it ourself?

Before the death in previous incarnations, the unfulfilled desires been sown as a seed and that seed grants life?

If one has desire to fulfill in world - then perceives 5 elements, and if one has desire to go to Swarga - and so enjoys there without sufferings for a limited time?

Is everything, every action, every movement - are all based on one's and accumulated living being's desires/needs/thoughts/sankalpa?

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Who told you rivers are not sentient?
I am a galaxy. I am each star and galaxy and planet.

From an Absolute sense, Yes, i am the universe.
From a vyavaharika sense, I AM appearing as this body (and as long as i appear as a finite being) i'm separate from another person's body and the rest of the universe.

prANa = breath, jeeva-prANa is what makes something alive.
Organisms are made sentient via their working system , and the recorded accumulated samskaars make the jeeva develop the I (false i) , the ahaMkaar. Manas and buddhi develop in higher organisms due to a more advanced OS.

Right. Vedanta also says its the OS called Antahkarana (which is made up of Prana, Manas, Buddhi, Ego) that makes the physical body alive.
Now my question is, why does this Antahkarana/Prana exists only in the physical body of plants, animals and humans and why not in chairs, stones, etc.

It is like asking
Why does my laptop boot and come alive but my table doesn't?

Because the OS is programmed by us to run only on PC and not on tables.

So is it Saguna Brahman that manufactures the OS called Antahkarana/Prana from the 5 elements, so that it works only with the physical body and not with stones?

 

[Viswa]

Now my question is, why does this Antahkarana/Prana exists only in the physical body of plants, animals and humans and why not in chairs, stones, etc.

Antahkarana, means "Antah - Inner or Final" "Karana - Cause".

This Antahkarana is the innermost cause or if inquired - the final/ending of the cause of all the causes.

It's not Antahkarana is made up of "Ego-Buddhi-Mind-Prana-Chitta-etc.,", but it is the Antahkarana which is like a pond/space came up in the vast ocean, the innermost cause, for the water to play.

It is the limited Pond made up for the purpose of Limitless water to play.

And from that pond, first came the EGO of the "Conscious of I AM", fully Blissful. Then happens to be Vijnanamaya Kosha/Buddhi, Manomayakosha/Mind, etc.,

It is a means/BRIDGE, through which the Saguna Brahman - the Conscious of I AM - Blissful(Purusha and Prakriti or three gunas - combined) came into existence, and flows/plays.

First this Pond is only full of BLISS, then there happens to be knowledge of previous universe, thoughts in mind about Prana/energy to bring up matter into existence or Apparent Reality.

Only through Antahkarana, first APPARENT REALITY or PURE CONSCIOUSNESS, came.

To come back to your question, it's within Antahkarana - both conscious and unconscious being exits/appear.

Why the stone is Unconscious, is because it is "Thought to be so" in the primordial seed. Because, for a conscious being to move/play, there must be static things. If say, the stone has it's own conscious and can move like living beings, then how come stone-age man live in a cave - use stones as instruments, etc.,? What if the stones don't abide to Human needs?

So, to abide for Human/Living beings needs - these are all remains unconscious/still/static, and some creativity can be made from base/stable things. Even to Paint things creatively, there is a need of static/unconscious things like Paper,board,paint,brush,etc., For sculpture - a stable big stone, etc.,

And so all matter, including body - hands and legs, are all unconscious, so through that unconscious things - the conscious beings plays.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

It's not Antahkarana is made up of "Ego-Buddhi-Mind-Prana-Chitta-etc.,"

Below are a couple of articles which are based on vedanta and yoga says antahkarana is manas, buddhi, chitta, ahamkara (along with the 5 pranas, 5 jnanendriyas and 5 karmendriyas)
:=)

Antahkarana (Manas, ego, buddhi, chitta) - The Root of Bondage / ~ Swami Chidananda
Advaita - Nonoduality: Antahkarana (Manas, ego, buddhi, chitta) - The Root of Bondage / ~ Swami Chidananda

=======

There are five organs of action (known as karma indriyas), five organs of knowledge (known as jnana indriyas), five pranas and four elements of antahkarana (the inner instrument). This antahkarana is made up of the mind (manas), intellect (buddhi), subconscious (chitta) and ego (ahamkara).
The three bodies and five sheaths — Kalindi Yoga

 

[Viswa]

So is it Saguna Brahman that manufactures the OS called Antahkarana/Prana from the 5 elements, so that it works only with the physical body and not with stones?

I see I expressed wrong words about "Antahkarana is not made up of 'Ego-Buddhi-Mind-chitta'". The thing I tried to say is it is not a "MADE UP" thing by 5 koshas. Made, means someother makes it into existence.

But, it is not so. No one had made up Antahkarana, but it itself is the cause of everything, every 5 sheaths - EGO-BUDDHI-MIND-CHITTA, prana and physical body.

It is the cause of all cause, and not made up by some other.

Even it is the cause of "Saguna Brahman" or to be "Conscious of I AM", and so it is called as "Antah-Karana"

How it came into existence and become a cause for everything, acts as a Bridge for us to connect/experience 5 sheaths, is always an unsolved Mystery.

In my profile Pic, it is the Bubble, and only after the Bubble, Saguna Brahman-fully Blissful came up and filled up the bubble with Bliss, that's the Ego. And from Ego, Intellect born, and from Intellect-mind born, and from thoughts - Prana and matter born. How come the Bubble/Pond came in this infinite ocean is the "unknowable" or "Maya".

 

[Martin]

The universe, rivers, rocks, koshas etc. they're all manifestations of that One Consciousness/Brahman.

These manifestations are being set in motion (or given an apparent sentiency) by Brahman.

Some of the manifestations are dense while some are subtle.
Some has the ability to move, breathe, eat, comprehend etc. while others are devoid of life.

... Now, if all is Consciousness according to Advaita, then why stones or mountains aren't conscious of their surroundings?
... If all names & forms are being animated (made so called sentient) by Brahman, then why do some objects like rocks lack sentiency?

Perhaps because rocks don't have a mind in which objects can appear to consciousness.
If Brahman is consciousness (Mandukya Upanishad and Atma Bodha), then everything we experience is merely an appearance in consciousness, and therefore "unreal". But there has to be some apparatus for these appearances to arise, and this is absent in rocks.

 

[ameyAtmA]

Shrimad BhAgvat mahApurAN should have the answer. Sarga and visarga. Also BG 7

DvA ime purushe loke ksharascha akshara eva cha
Kshara sarvANi bhUtAni kUTastha akshara eva cha


Extreme tamoguNa in inorganic matter.

Organic matter has cells that grow, multiply. Radioactive matter decays,
Varioys properties. Laptop versus table.

Next you might ask why do some organisms have limbs and others have wings.

 

[Martin]

From an Absolute sense, Yes, i am the universe.
From a vyavaharika sense, I AM appearing as this body (and as long as i appear as a finite being) i'm separate from another person's body and the rest of the universe.


Right. Vedanta also says its the OS called Antahkarana (which is made up of Prana, Manas, Buddhi, Ego) that makes the physical body alive.
Now my question is, why does this Antahkarana/Prana exists only in the physical body of plants, animals and humans and why not in chairs, stones, etc.


Because the OS is programmed by us to run only on PC and not on tables.

So is it Saguna Brahman that manufactures the OS called Antahkarana/Prana from the 5 elements, so that it works only with the physical body and not with stones?

I'm not sure "I am the universe" is correct here.
If we say "Aham Brahmasmi", then "Prajnanam Brahma" implies "I am consciousness", or "I am satchitananda".

As for your question, I would say that there is nothing in stones for consciousness to illuminate, and no mechanism for appearances to arise. No mind, no sense-organs, koshas, etc.

 

[ameyAtmA]

From an Absolute sense, Yes, i am the universe.

Right. Vedanta also says its the OS called Antahkarana (which is made up of Prana, Manas, Buddhi, Ego) that makes the physical body alive.
Now my question is, why does this Antahkarana/Prana exists only in the physical body of plants, animals and humans and why not in chairs, stones, etc.


Because the OS is programmed by us to run only on PC and not on tables.

So is it Saguna Brahman that manufactures the OS called Antahkarana/Prana from the 5 elements, so that it works only with the physical body and not with stones?

MahA VishNu sets stage, BramhA, Devi does Her part, BramhA does His part.

The distinction between organic and inorganic is due to the distribution of akshara and kshara.
BhAgvatam has details.

Organic matter has cells , complex proteins, rna dna that is absent in inorganic chemical compounds, matter.

Cells grow. A chemical molecular compound does not.
Whereas radioactive compounds decay.
These are the various properties.

OS is not the antahkaraN, it is the entire operation system of that organism.
I said higher organisms develop the I , manas and buddhi.

Will be back with BhAgvatam.

However you did not get the point of my first post.

It is not because of absolute and relative vyavahaar.
All of them have my consciousness.
Mountains too. Galaxies, rivers...

 

[Martin]

MahA VishNu sets stage, BramhA, Devi does Her part, BramhA does His part.

The distinction between organic and inorganic is due to the distribution of akshara and kshara.
BhAgvatam has details.

Organic matter has cells , complex proteins, rna dna that is absent in inorganic chemical compounds, matter.

Cells grow. A chemical molecular compound does not.
Whereas radioactive compounds decay.
These are the various properties.

OS is not the antahkaraN, it is the entire operation system of that organism.
I said higher organisms develop the I , manas and buddhi.

Will be back with BhAgvatam.

However you did not get the point of my first post.

It is not because of absolute and relative vyavahaar.
All of them have my consciousness.
Mountains too. Galaxies, rivers...

I dont think mountains have consciousness. There is nothing in a mountain for consciousness to illuminate, and no mechanism for appearances in consciousness to arise. No mind, sense-organs, etc.

To put this in sciency language, it is only biological organisms which can exhibit awareness of their environment.

 

[ameyAtmA]

I dont think mountains have consciousness. There is nothing in a mountain for consciousness to illuminate, and no mechanism for appearances in consciousness to arise. No mind, sense-organs, etc.

They don't have an ego mind to perceive my consciousness. I do. However, it is you who cannot see that the mountain, sun, galaxy is conscious.

I am a galaxy and conscious. I am the sky, ether and conscious. I am a star, planet and conscious.

To put this in sciency language, it is only biological organisms which can exhibit awareness of their environment.

What I said above, 2 posts, yes,
Organic matter is made of cells of complex proteins dna rna
When cells organize into organs like brain they develop manas,
but they also have my consciousness. Not theirs.


AI robots can do more than a washing machine.

 

[Martin]

They don't have an ego mind to perceive my consciousness. I do. However, it is you who cannot see that the mountain, sun, galaxy is conscious.

I am a galaxy and conscious. I am the sky, ether and conscious. I am a star, planet and conscious.


What I said above, 2 posts, yes,
Organic matter is made of cells of complex proteins dna rna
When cells organize into organs like brain they develop manas,
but they also have my consciousness. Not theirs.


AI robots can do more than a washing machine.

Are you saying cells have a mind?

 

[ameyAtmA]

Are you saying cells have a mind?

When cells organize into tissues
And tissues into organs
And organs into systems and neural network connectivity, then mind develops.
Immediately the false I false local ego develops. Machine learning.
Yet, this false ego does not know me , who is their origin, that they are me.

First sarga, then visarga.

 

[Martin]

They don't have an ego mind to perceive my consciousness. I do. However, it is you who cannot see that the mountain, sun, galaxy is conscious.

I am a galaxy and conscious. I am the sky, ether and conscious. I am a star, planet and conscious.


What I said above, 2 posts, yes,
Organic matter is made of cells of complex proteins dna rna
When cells organize into organs like brain they develop manas,
but they also have my consciousness. Not theirs.


AI robots can do more than a washing machine.

You say: "I am the sky... and conscious".

What basis do you have for these assertions?
In what sense are you the sky?
And how could empty space (the sky) be conscious?

If Brahman is consciousness, then "sky" is merely an appearance, and therefore unreal.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

As for your question, I would say that there is nothing in stones for consciousness to illuminate, and no mechanism for appearances to arise. No mind, no sense-organs, etc.

But there has to be some apparatus for these appearances to arise, and this is absent in rocks.

It was a long time ago, an Advaitin swami on youtube said something similar to what you've just said. That there needs to be a reflective medium, for Consciousness to reflect upon.

According to him, this mind aka subtle body is a reflective medium or tool, which reflects/borrows Consciousness and makes itself and the rest of the body sentient, even though it has no sentiency of its own, just like moon which has no light of its own, simply borrows and reflects sunlight, and makes its lunar body luminious. This is a very beautiful example that he gave :=)

Now the question that comes to my mind is that, who is it that decides which object in the universe should breathe and think (have tools like mind, senses, prana etc.) and which objects should just stay dead.
... Is it the personal God Ishwara who decides everything, OR is it just ME in my True impersonal Brahman state (before manifesting the universe) who decides how the world should really look and function like?