Advice For Bible Students Beware Of The Scholars

[Nakosis]

But why did we end up with so many McDonald's?

Ronald McDonald

 

[Earthling]

Jesus impressed the scholars because of his wisdom and understanding. Not because he was ignorant and proud of it.

Hmmm. I wonder who might have suggested such a thing and what sort of implications that might have on me? Hmmmm. I wish I was more smarter. If only some smug, arrogant, freak who thinks the sun shines out his fat lazy *** would have mercy on me and dictate to me some book learnin'. So I could demonstrate how wrong they were!

 

[ChristineM]

I encourage it, what would you have me back up?

Now that is really funny

 

[Earthling]

That was pretty wild. I agree with your premise only to an extent. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're saying.

People shouldn't have their religion without some introspection and self study, in whatever form, I agree.

What is confusing about what I say?

 

[Earthling]

And likewise the inverse is true - if you read that the soul is immortal and that references to the death and life of the soul are relative states, don’t let so called “scholars” change your mind

Ah, but you see, you don't read the soul is immortal in the Bible.

 

[Earthling]

Jesus was self-evidently not the messiah and Paul, in proclaiming him so, was therefore wrong. Paul and the gospel writers misquote the Tanach on multiple occasions and misapply prophecy, as well as just making basic errors such as having Jesus argue with people about healing on the Sabbath, which is not forbidden.

You do realize that your interpretation of the Tanach differs from the religious leaders of Jesus' day?

Just take a look at this in Romans, where he is apparently quoting Isaiah,

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Here is the actual quote,

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

The Christian Testament just misquotes Tanach all over the place to justify its strange theology.

References to Romans and Isaiah, please?

 

[Earthling]

You need some punctuation in that title, bub.

Unfortunately my grammar instruction was negotiated in the public schools.

 

[siti]

Unfortunately my grammar instruction was negotiated in the public schools.

I'll bet your parents are glad they didn't pay for it!

 

[siti]

References to Romans and Isaiah, please?

Romans 11:26, Isaiah 59:20 - for a Bible student you're not very adept at picking out scripture references.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I love these "my one-time skim is as good as your years of study" type claims.

 

[Kenny]

Have you had a discussion in which someone who claims to be trained in ancient Hebrew, Greek or is a Bible Scholar, or has been to seminary gives the impression that because of their education in any of the fields they must be right and you must be wrong? It happens all of the time to me. And lets put that into perspective.



The Bible doesn't teach hell, the rapture, the trinity. . . if you read in the Bible that the soul is mortal, it dies, then don't let the so called scholars change your thinking.

I am so glad that we have you as our scholarly savior to correct all these people who are in error.

Then again... it also sounds like you are offering another gospel.

 

[Brickjectivity]

CS Lewis is a crappy theologian but a good scholar. I give him credit for all of the work he has done. I pay more attention to him than to someone with no training. I don't dismiss him just because he is scholastic but because he is has bad notions. I like his fiction though it is imbedded with his fear of technology and a false equivalency between technology and evil. He did not trust future generations and saddled us with superstition as much as possible: that plus fear of the future. Even so his scholarship is clever, thoughtful and sometimes not bad.

 

[danieldemol]

Ah, but you see, you don't read the soul is immortal in the Bible.

I consider it a matter of interpretation.

 

[Regiomontanus]

...

Your spiritual growth isn't dependent upon, or the responsibility of the intellectual, the scholar, or any of those mentioned above. It is dependent upon you. It's your responsibility.

Hello. Yes, primarily is up to us. But I think scholars in this field have a lot to offer as well. For example, correcting translations from the original Greek (NT) and weeding out the later encrustations that have developed over the centuries (things attributed to Jesus, for example, that were likely added later).

It is true though that many biblical scholars (Bart Ehrman comes to mind) have an axe to grind and seem to use their scholarship to turn people away from the faith.

Peace.

 

[metis]

Jehovah therefore rejected the Jewish system and expanded his approval to the Gentile followers of Christ.

Jesus and the apostles were Jews operating out of a Jewish paradigm, liberal though they may be.

 

[David T]

You need some punctuation in that title, bub.

Hey their is zero punctuation in a lot of the ancient writings no spaces even allputtogetheranditmadefordifficultreading.

One actually had to breathe and recite it to themselves.

 

[David T]

But why did we end up with so many McDonald's?

That's a single denomination

 

[ASPls]

But why did we end up with so many McDonald's?

The correct question, I believe is why did we end up with so many similar fast food franchises?

 

[Politesse]

Hmmm. I wonder who might have suggested such a thing and what sort of implications that might have on me? Hmmmm. I wish I was more smarter. If only some smug, arrogant, freak who thinks the sun shines out his fat lazy *** would have mercy on me and dictate to me some book learnin'. So I could demonstrate how wrong they were!

Do you need a Bible citation?

Jesus was not proud of ignorance. By all accounts, he engaged openly with the scholars of the day, and they with him. I find your post rather disrespectful to the man and his memory.

 

[Hawkins]

Have you had a discussion in which someone who claims to be trained in ancient Hebrew, Greek or is a Bible Scholar, or has been to seminary gives the impression that because of their education in any of the fields they must be right and you must be wrong? It happens all of the time to me. And lets put that into perspective.

Jesus as a child impressed the Jewish religious leaders of the time. Later, as an adult, he strongly criticized those religious leaders. Jesus wasn't a scholar. Nor were his disciples. Nor were nearly all of the writers of the Bible, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The only scholars I can think of were Ezra and Paul, and Paul's training had him persecuting and savagely killing Christians until his conversion.

The Jewish leaders rejected Jesus, the only one who could ever be proven, by legal documentation to have been the Messiah since the records were destroyed in the Roman destruction of the temple in 66 - 70 C.E.

Jehovah therefore rejected the Jewish system and expanded his approval to the Gentile followers of Christ.

But Christianity is hardly any better off. Paul foretold the future apostasy of Christendom and their preference over myth and legends. The soul isn't immortal. Jesus didn't die on a cross. The Bible doesn't teach hell, the rapture, the trinity. . . if you read in the Bible that the soul is mortal, it dies, then don't let the so called scholars change your thinking. Listen to what they say but don't put your trust in them, or anyone else, including me, gurus, the Pope, Rabbis, Bible Scholars, or even the apostles and disciples of Jesus.

Your spiritual growth isn't dependent upon, or the responsibility of the intellectual, the scholar, or any of those mentioned above. It is dependent upon you. It's your responsibility.

It only shows that you don't know what human witnessing is. You don't know what history is either.

Human witnessing is a process where you don't need the eyewitnesses to be the professionals. Say, in reporting a car accident you don't need eyewitnesses to be any professionals of what an accident is. Their job is to earnestly describe what happened to the professional reporters. It is the reporters acting as professionals in writing up a piece of news in accordance to what have been described by the eyewitnesses.

The twelves are chosen to be the eyewitnesses. Some of them, such as John, are developed into professional writers themselves to write in fluent Greek. Paul on the other hand, is not called the same as the twelves. He's called the same as any OT prophets. Paul is a prophet in nature though given the title apostle. He thus ever emphasized that his knowledge is not from the twelve. His knowledge is from the revelation of Jesus Christ Himself. He's a fluent Greek writer, this however by no means says that he can't hire a more professional writer or a more convenient writer (say when he's in jail) to do the job for him. Under certain circumstance, he can also authorize a third party to write for him anonymously such as in the case of the book Hebrews.

Paul is famous in the Pharisee circle. He's possibly a candidate of the Great Sanhedrin before his conversion. His teacher represents a whole school of Pharisaic thoughts. However after his conversion, he has conflicts with the Jews in the Minor Asia area where he ministered the churches as a mixture of both Jews and gentiles. The Jews in Minor Asia area can be very different from those in Jerusalem. The Jews in Palestine area are basically Hebrew speakers, reading Hebrew Bible with canon defined by the Pharisees.

Jews in majority back then were under the influence of Pharisees thus adapting the basic Pharisaic concepts. These concepts include immortal soul, eternal hell, partial freewill and partial predestination. Jesus ever use the same hell concept to make up His parables. A parable is the making use of easily understandable terms and concepts to illustrate a less obvious point of view. It means the hell concept is easily understood by the Jews for Jesus to illustrate a point.

Paul as a Pharisee should have had the same set of fundamental Pharisaic concepts. However his teacher represents a more moderate school of Pharisaic thoughts. He thus tends not to put many emphasis on hell and immortal soul in writing documents. As a potential candidate of the Great Sanhedrin, Paul also needs to keep a low profile about these concepts as the Great Sanhedrin is made up of both Pharisees and Sadducees. The Sadducees as a sect believe the opposite. They believe in no soul, no hell, no predestination but complete freewill. Any formal document about eternal hell and immortal soul won't get a pass from the dominant Sadducees inside the Great Sanhedrin. Books such as the book of Enoch with detail descriptions of souls and hell thus can hardly get into the Jewish Bible canon.

What today's scholars can do is in accordance to what we have at hand today, not manuscripts early churches have and the Jews have in the first century. They are speculations basing on available information today, not information available in first century. Even when their conclusions are the best today, it by no means says the they are accurate. They can't be accurate due mainly to the lack of first handed manuscripts and information. This is the nature of what history itself is.

On the other hand, the Bible books remain the only most accurate documents because the canon defined since 2nd century till finalized in the 3rd and 4th century. In the absence of any original manuscripts we can still have the definition of the books deemed reliable by the early churches. From the mass of later ancient manuscripts available today, we can still maintain an accurate theology embedded, and for the same salvation message to convey amount humans accurately. The existence of the mass number of manuscripts of both OT and NT is a result of the power of a religion. No any other secular documents can be so complete, in terms of their verifiability and reconcilability. This says that the conveying of a consistent message (in the form of a theology as a whole) can only be achieved by employing a religion. That's the job of God.

Jesus is rejected mainly due to the fact that Judaism back then is in the hands of the Pharisees. The Pharisees are right about the OT, but they are corrupted and basically lost connection with God for them to accept NT. That's why Jesus has to start His ministry from Galilee instead of Jerusalem. That's actually why He's crucified in Jerusalem. However, there are still mass of Jews converted outside Jerusalem. Once they are converted, they literally lost their identity as a Jew. They are now Christians, the same as the gentile Christians. Their families and descendants no longer practice the Jewish customs for them to be considered the Jews. They lost their Jewish identity once they give up the practice of circumcising on the 8th day after birth.