Afraid of death?

[rrobs]

Some people will even admit they're crying for themselves rather than the loved one; not everyone crying at a funeral thinks the person may not be in "a better place." And if the grief (or any emotion) of the moment outweighs the bigger picture at that time, that's human nature as well. Kids don't want the momentary pain of a vaccination even if they're able to understand it will ultimately protect them from worse things. People get excited about being "in love" even if the person is bad for them in the long run. People are happy and say "congratulations!" for a new baby even if they know the people they're congratulating will be lousy parents or have a harder life with a child or whatever. People eat the cupcake they see in front of them even though they know they want to lose weight/are going to have to work harder at the gym later. Etc.

Good observation. Reminds me of Shakespeare, "What fools these mortals be..."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I suppose it depends on your definitions here. Some people would separate "the brain" and "the soul" (so it really does depend on what you mean consciousness to be). These would argue that the brain is physical and can fail, the soul cannot and that is what continues, regardless of what the physical brain is doing.

The soul is our personality and identity of the brain. If our soul was separate from the body, by what means are we not aware during anethesia and comas but we are when we are legally dead?​

In both cases, the brain is still working whether aware or not but the former we dont consider the conscious state altered as in NDE and OBE unless one is fighting death.

Since the dying brain and the altered state of consciousnes (ASC) brain still have oxeyen, what is the difference between the two when saying one has to do with the brain and the other soul?

What about brain death makes one have an everlasting and awared soul, but during commsa, antheseia, seizures, and concusions, we dont see our soul being altered just our memory?

They are both ideally ASC. If not, both brain and heart would be dead. Why the differences?

Also, do you know that you weren't aware while unconscious? Or do you just not rem
ember? Take, for example, the "twilight" method of anesthesia. You had a colonoscopy... you were likely aware during it... you just don't remember what happened. Doesn't mean you weren't aware, just means you can't recall being aware. I'm not saying everybody's awake during their open-heart surgery and just can't remember, but more that assuming you didn't have some sort of brain activity just because you don't remember having same may not be accurate. Your brain was likely doing something, even if it wasn't actively observing the outside world.)

There is a study on this. I like this explanation

He discusses the different type of consciousness we have from a state when we are not aware but our bodies and brains are. The other when we are aware and how we identify this awareness as ones identity/soul/spirit or so have you instead of different states of thebrains ASC.

If the soul exists when the brain isnt aware and we can have NDEs why would it be different when we are in a coma or unde anesthesia than when the brain has no oxegyen and is dying as the heart stops beating?

The dying has ASC, of course. Though, I feel ASC for the dying is stronger since the memory and awareness and all consciousness from automatic to intentional are fragmented. I would think we are aware of our souls in all states of alive consciousness but after death, there is nothing to which one can be aware.

What exactly is the soul to where it isnt aware in a coma, seizure, or anesthesia but ideally alive when the heart and brain doesnt function anymore?​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why do we think we have an soul or ASC when our brain and heart no longer works but then when we are in a comma, seizure, or anenethsia, we dumb it down to memory without connection to the soul (unless dying)?

In what way does the dead brain and heart make ones have a soul while during a coma, we just call it ASC that affects the memory but not the eternal soul?

 

[Segev Moran]

Why are some people afraid of death?

I Think the idea of ending is scary.
Not knowing what is going to happen usually scares people.
The thought of what and who you leave behind is scary.
I don't think people are afraid of the death itself rather its consequences.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I always say, "I'm not afraid of being dead... I'm afraid of how I'll get that way!" It's rarely a pleasant process. No doubt plenty are afraid of that alone. I'm afraid of what I'll leave behind that other people have to deal with/take care of. Some can't imagine a sudden, blotted-out end to their existence, whether it's due to ego* or a lack of imagination. Some think something comes after but don't know what. People would rather stay with what they know-- even if it's unpleasant-- than take a chance on something they don't.

*Goes both ways, either "I can't imagine a world without me!" or "crap, once I'm dead I'll be *completely* irrelevant." I always say part of the reason I haven't the huevos to kill myself is because nobody would care and that's a bit disconcerting.



For some people, it is. For some people, their entire existence is extreme illness, poverty, violence, etc. (and there's no way I'm going to sit in my safe life and think I get to make judgments about whether suffering is "worth it" when I cannot fathom the suffering some people face. It's not for me to decide the nice things I get to experience make the immense pain others experience worth it, just because I'm lucky enough to both enjoy those nice things and that those things can balance out the minor problems of my life...)



Because anything you've already done is... already done. You don't have to do it again. (And, for those afraid of the unknown, you now know how it ends.) I'm not nervous about the dentist appointment last week; it's over. The one next week, though? Yup.



Even if death is no big deal, you do not miss the person who has died? My mother died a few months ago. I cry because I miss having her in my life. I cry for the things we did not get to do and the conversations we did not have, and now will never do and have. I cry because she had to get sick. I cry because her death was a release from all of the continually-worsening health problems she had to suffer for decades and the fact that she had to go through those things and then consider death to be an acceptable out* when I know that had she not been miserable from her illnesses she would have preferred to live because then she COULD live-- it was just that being sick made life not worth it. I cry because we don't know what comes after and I don't know if I will ever see her again. That has nothing to do with how I view death, but with missing a person and being unhappy about the circumstances of their death.

*Think about it... every time we say of someone who has died of an illness, "at least they're no longer suffering," that's just a consolation prize. Even if they welcomed the end because it ended their suffering (as with my grandfather, who had cancer for years and was well ready to die before he actually did), they likely only wanted to die because of their illness, not because they didn't actually want to live-- they probably would have preferred to have a healthy life worth living.




I suppose it depends on your definitions here. Some people would separate "the brain" and "the soul" (so it really does depend on what you mean consciousness to be). These would argue that the brain is physical and can fail, the soul cannot and that is what continues, regardless of what the physical brain is doing.

(Also, do you know that you weren't aware while unconscious? Or do you just not remember? Take, for example, the "twilight" method of anesthesia. You had a colonoscopy... you were likely aware during it... you just don't remember what happened. Doesn't mean you weren't aware, just means you can't recall being aware. I'm not saying everybody's awake during their open-heart surgery and just can't remember, but more that assuming you didn't have some sort of brain activity just because you don't remember having same may not be accurate. Your brain was likely doing something, even if it wasn't actively observing the outside world.)




Some people will even admit they're crying for themselves rather than the loved one; not everyone crying at a funeral thinks the person may not be in "a better place." And if the grief (or any emotion) of the moment outweighs the bigger picture at that time, that's human nature as well. Kids don't want the momentary pain of a vaccination even if they're able to understand it will ultimately protect them from worse things. People get excited about being "in love" even if the person is bad for them in the long run. People are happy and say "congratulations!" for a new baby even if they know the people they're congratulating will be lousy parents or have a harder life with a child or whatever. People eat the cupcake they see in front of them even though they know they want to lose weight/are going to have to work harder at the gym later. Etc.

My condolences. I can't say I'm in the same boat, and I know my aunt/friend died this year January, so with the crying, I totally get ya.

In relation to my comment, I'd say and more comfortable with my aunt not being here. She died. For some reason, when I see her without an eternal soul it leads me to understand and be more comfortable with death. Our consciousness is only aware when we have a brain and heart. When we are in a coma, anesthesia, concussion, etc our brains still work. When our heart stops and we are clinically dead, are brain is still aware so it makes sense some experiences of NDE for example are true. I see my aunt, I guess her soul, more inside me rather than external. She wasn't religious and she felt no one cared about her. So, yeah. I totally get her.

Anyway, our brains are aware as in the video I gave. However, automatic awareness just means our body and brains function outside our control. What is the difference between ones soul in anesthesia and when one has died brain and heart? In other words, how does ones full death affect the nature of the soul if you consider one absence of memory and the other absence of flesh?

 

[Trailblazer]

At this moment, I'll be ready to accept the fact I was forever non-existent before I was born as well as I'll be eternally non-existent after ionic currents stop flowing across my brain's neurons. ...

I believe we came into being at the moment of conception so we did not exist before that. However, at the moment of conception we became endowed with a soul that is eternal. Our bodies will eventually die, but our souls will live on and take on a new form, a spiritual body. All of who we were except our physical body, all of our personality and consciousness, will continue to exist forever in another realm, a spiritual world. We cannot understand what that will be like from this world since the spiritual world is so different from this world, just as the world of the child inside the womb is different from this world.

 

[Katja]

The soul is our personality and identity of the brain. If our soul was separate from the body, by what means are we not aware during anethesia and comas but we are when we are legally dead?​

In both cases, the brain is still working whether aware or not but the former we dont consider the conscious state altered as in NDE and OBE unless one is fighting death.

Since the dying brain and the altered state of consciousnes (ASC) brain still have oxeyen, what is the difference between the two when saying one has to do with the brain and the other soul?

What about brain death makes one have an everlasting and awared soul, but during commsa, antheseia, seizures, and concusions, we dont see our soul being altered just our memory?

They are both ideally ASC. If not, both brain and heart would be dead. Why the differences?



There is a study on this. I like this explanation

He discusses the different type of consciousness we have from a state when we are not aware but our bodies and brains are. The other when we are aware and how we identify this awareness as ones identity/soul/spirit or so have you instead of different states of thebrains ASC.

If the soul exists when the brain isnt aware and we can have NDEs why would it be different when we are in a coma or unde anesthesia than when the brain has no oxegyen and is dying as the heart stops beating?

The dying has ASC, of course. Though, I feel ASC for the dying is stronger since the memory and awareness and all consciousness from automatic to intentional are fragmented. I would think we are aware of our souls in all states of alive consciousness but after death, there is nothing to which one can be aware.

What exactly is the soul to where it isnt aware in a coma, seizure, or anesthesia but ideally alive when the heart and brain doesnt function anymore?​

I never said the soul is only present after death? I've never met anyone who thinks that. Of course the soul is always present... the physical brain isn't, necessarily.

At any rate, that wasn't even the point I was making. You mixed together two different parts of my post, one pointing out that semantics matter in this discussion, and another talking about awareness/brain activity.

Anyway, our brains are aware as in the video I gave. However, automatic awareness just means our body and brains function outside our control. What is the difference between ones soul in anesthesia and when one has died brain and heart? In other words, how does ones full death affect the nature of the soul if you consider one absence of memory and the other absence of flesh?

Where on earth did I say any of this??? You are reading waaaaaaay more into my words than I intended or said.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I never said the soul is only present after death? I've never met anyone who thinks that. Of course the soul is always present... the physical brain isn't, necessarily.

At any rate, that wasn't even the point I was making. You mixed together two different parts of my post, one pointing out that semantics matter in this discussion, and another talking about awareness/brain activity.




Where on earth did I say any of this??? You are reading waaaaaaay more into my words than I intended or said.

You didnt. I said it.

Unless I specify what you said, please ask for clarification.

 

[Looncall]

I believe we came into being at the moment of conception so we did not exist before that. However, at the moment of conception we became endowed with a soul that is eternal. Our bodies will eventually die, but our souls will live on and take on a new form, a spiritual body. All of who we were except our physical body, all of our personality and consciousness, will continue to exist forever in another realm, a spiritual world. We cannot understand what that will be like from this world since the spiritual world is so different from this world, just as the world of the child inside the womb is different from this world.

How do you know that this true and not a scam cooked up by scoundrels?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I never said the soul is only present after death? I've never met anyone who thinks that. Of course the soul is always present... the physical brain isn't, necessarily.

What is the difference between the soul during anethesia and that at death? How does lack of brain oxygen and heart stops make the nature of the soul different than off being alive?

Since NDE, OBE, and anesthesia are altered state of consciousness, how is this different than having the heart stop and brain loss of oxygen and die?

We are aware of consciousness as our automatic movements such as monitoring breath. We are not during ASC above. My question is about the later in relationship with death. Some use consciousness instead of soul.

At any rate, that wasn't even the point I was making. You mixed together two different parts of my post, one pointing out that semantics matter in this discussion, and another talking about awareness/brain activity.

As for memory, why is conscious lost justified by memory and awareness but death focuses on the soul and ASC?

Where on earth did I say any of this??? You are reading waaaaaaay more into my words than I intended or said.

The different consciousness interestingly is explained in the video.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I simplified my reply for you.

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you know that this true and not a scam cooked up by scoundrels?

What is the very first thing that detectives look for when a crime has been committed? They look for motive.
What would be a motive for someone to make up a story this fantastic? They made no money on books.

Moreover, the most interesting thing is that many sources are saying essentially the same things about the afterlife. That is like having many witnesses to a crime as evidence of who committed it.

But the primary reason to believe it is true is that it makes logical sense that it is true, when one looks at this world and the afterlife as one whole. What I believe explains why we have to endure suffering in this world and the reason for this life. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Katja]

What is the difference between the soul during anethesia and that at death? How does lack of brain oxygen and heart stops make the nature of the soul different than off being alive?

Since NDE, OBE, and anesthesia are altered state of consciousness, how is this different than having the heart stop and brain loss of oxygen and die?

We are aware of consciousness as our automatic movements such as monitoring breath. We are not during ASC above. My question is about the later in relationship with death. Some use consciousness instead of soul.



As for memory, why is conscious lost justified by memory and awareness but death focuses on the soul and ASC?



The different consciousness interestingly is explained in the video.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I simplified my reply for you.

You're assuming I'm saying sentience and the soul are different things. You're assuming I'm saying the soul is not the same thing during both life and death. And you seem to be basing this on the fact that I acknowledged that some people may equate "brain" and "soul" and hence that it's hard to answer the question without knowing exactly how you define these things. That's not putting words in my mouth? Could've fooled me.

I can't argue with you based on arguments you're making because you're assuming much more than I said. If you want to talk about what I actually said, we can do that. I'm not going to spend all of my time trying to correct you because you disagree with your assumptions of what I wrote rather than the reality.

For the last time: for the sake of this discussion, I'm assuming the soul exists throughout a person's life and beyond, and I never said otherwise, but somehow you grabbed that idea and ran with it. The difference is that during life it has a physical body to reside in-- and yes, this includes when that physical body is alive but not cognizant of its surroundings but still has brain activity. (I am NOT using "consciousness" here to mean "sentience" and that's very obvious by what I wrote, since we were speaking in terms of anesthesia, being knocked out, sleeping, etc.) If you don't know the difference between a live body and a dead one, I really can't help you out.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're assuming I'm saying sentience and the soul are different things. You're assuming I'm saying the soul is not the same thing during both life and death. And you seem to be basing this on the fact that I acknowledged that some people may equate "brain" and "soul" and hence that it's hard to answer the question without knowing exactly how you define these things. That's not putting words in my mouth? Could've fooled me.

I can't argue with you based on arguments you're making because you're assuming much more than I said. If you want to talk about what I actually said, we can do that. I'm not going to spend all of my time trying to correct you because you disagree with your assumptions of what I wrote rather than the reality.

For the last time: for the sake of this discussion, I'm assuming the soul exists throughout a person's life and beyond, and I never said otherwise, but somehow you grabbed that idea and ran with it. The difference is that during life it has a physical body to reside in-- and yes, this includes when that physical body is alive but not cognizant of its surroundings but still has brain activity. (I am NOT using "consciousness" here to mean "sentience" and that's very obvious by what I wrote, since we were speaking in terms of anesthesia, being knocked out, sleeping, etc.) If you don't know the difference between a live body and a dead one, I really can't help you out.

Sheesh. I did not out words in your mouth. These are my thoughts. If you have no comment in these that's fine. It's just a convo not a group of assumptions. Sheesh. Can never have a full convo. around here.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You're assuming I'm saying sentience and the soul are different things. You're assuming I'm saying the soul is not the same thing during both life and death. And you seem to be basing this on the fact that I acknowledged that some people may equate "brain" and "soul" and hence that it's hard to answer the question without knowing exactly how you define these things. That's not putting words in my mouth? Could've fooled me.

I can't argue with you based on arguments you're making because you're assuming much more than I said. If you want to talk about what I actually said, we can do that. I'm not going to spend all of my time trying to correct you because you disagree with your assumptions of what I wrote rather than the reality.

For the last time: for the sake of this discussion, I'm assuming the soul exists throughout a person's life and beyond, and I never said otherwise, but somehow you grabbed that idea and ran with it. The difference is that during life it has a physical body to reside in-- and yes, this includes when that physical body is alive but not cognizant of its surroundings but still has brain activity. (I am NOT using "consciousness" here to mean "sentience" and that's very obvious by what I wrote, since we were speaking in terms of anesthesia, being knocked out, sleeping, etc.) If you don't know the difference between a live body and a dead one, I really can't help you out.

Christians do this a lot. They state their info as facts because they don't say it is their opinion. Then they get defensive as if we put words in their mouth in relationship with our rejection. Conversations do not need to be prelabeled in my opinion. If you think I'm attacking you ("could have fooled me") ask for clarification.

It's not serious.

Edit.

I reread it. I'm asking you questions not retorical statements.

 

[Fool]

Yes, of course I have realized that, but that does not mean I have to like it. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

true but qualifying it doesn't make any less reality. it won't always be good or always bad but it will always be..

 

[Looncall]

What is the very first thing that detectives look for when a crime has been committed? They look for motive.
What would be a motive for someone to make up a story this fantastic? They made no money on books.

Moreover, the most interesting thing is that many sources are saying essentially the same things about the afterlife. That is like having many witnesses to a crime as evidence of who committed it.

But the primary reason to believe it is true is that it makes logical sense that it is true, when one looks at this world and the afterlife as one whole. What I believe explains why we have to endure suffering in this world and the reason for this life. Inquiring minds want to know.

All this just points to a successful scam. In the past, everyone thought the earth was flat. They were all mistaken.

You have not provided actual evidence. Without evidence, no notion, however comforting, should be accepted.

 

[Trailblazer]

All this just points to a successful scam. In the past, everyone thought the earth was flat. They were all mistaken.

You have not provided actual evidence. Without evidence, no notion, however comforting, should be accepted.

If the afterlife was a scam, who would be the scammer? What motive would anyone have for making it up? The earth being flat is not a useful analogy because that is something that can be verified by science. Nothing outside the material world can be verified by scientific methods, but that does not negate its existence.

Logically speaking, there could be life on other planets that cannot verify our existence on earth, but that does not mean we do not exist on earth. There is just too wide of a chasm between here and there, just as there is a wide chasm between the material world and the spiritual worlds.

There is evidence, you just do not like the evidence. NDEs and other spiritual experiences people have, as well as spirit communications to mediums, are evidence that something exists beyond this material realm of existence. Call it another dimension if you like. In my religion we say that the spiritual world is within this world meaning it is not really separate. What that actually means I do not know. Life is full of mysteries.

It is not comforting for me to think I have to live forever in some strange dimension, but maybe it is better than the alternative.

 

[Vaderecta]

Why are some people afraid of death?

I think it is evolutionary sound theory to survive so that is perhaps why some people fear death. That said you won't really care except:

many people probably depend on you. They rely on you. They want to talk to you. They want to be around you. If you check out you are letting all those people down. However we can't always choose when we check out can we? Car accidents, cancer and basically **** happens. Its a complicated subject. I don't think there is a reason people fear death but I do think there are many reasons why people would both fear and embrace death.

 

[Faithofchristian]

People only now and then give it any thought about death.
But reality is, When a person is laying dieing in their death bed, coming face to face what they feared the most in their life fear of the unknown, Now here the time has come to face reality of death and the unknown. Knocking at their door.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are people not afraid of death because of their religious values; or are they not afraid even if they knew they would no longer exist (no afterlife)?

Does afterlife prevent some people to fear death; or, can one accept death without the need to exist after death?