Age of the earth

[Vadergirl123]

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Doesn't need to be. A high-percent of accuracy is quite sufficient.



Did you note why they say the assumptions are reasonable?

If I drop a ball, say ten times, and note that it falls to the ground each time, would it be reasonable to assume it will fall the eleventh time I drop it?

The assumptions they're making are based on observations, not blind speculation.

Well there's no way you can be absolutely sure.

Who says it's quite sufficient?

Yeah I did, and I didn't say it was blind speculation. However lets say one of the times you drop it there's a table underneath you. Then the ball won't fall to the ground. It'll fall onto the table. what if years from now we discover those assumptions aren't true(it's happened in science before). My whole point is assumptions ARE MADE(and of course scientists have to make them) but they're STILL assupmtions.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Why wouldn't I like it too much? I enjoy diversity of opinion and knowing what makes my adversaries(potential dinner) tick.

Me too (although I don't think of them as dinner hahaha) It's quite interesting knowing why other people believe what they believe. Well then you should check it out...Bible Questions Answered

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Oh so what do YOU beleive about God?

Nothing. I have no reason to "believe" anything regarding god(s).

 

[The_Evelyonian]

if you have no reason to not believe it came from anywhere.

Really? Is that what I said?

Then you're implying it's always been around.

No, as I said, you're the one that's doing that.

If something didn't originate then it has to have always been around.

Go back and find what I said and re-post it. My exact words, please.

Hmm well I guess there's no way I can without a doubt prove it,(and there's also no way to prbe he doesn't exist) but when I make the assumption that he does exist I can use that assumption to show how the world came into being and where our sense of logic comes from.

No, you can't. You can assert it. However, asserting it and showing it are two very different things

if you don't "put much stock" in absolutes then you can't even be sure of reality.

Really? Did I not say that there are ways we can be "fairly certain" of things? I can be reasonably certain of reality even if I don't claim "absolute" certainty.

I mean how can you be sure X=X

The Law of Identity.

or what's true or false

P. E. A. R. L. - Physical Evidence and Reasoned Logic

Without absolutes you have no sense of it.

Nonsense.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Yes I have, I said our sense of absolutes

How does "our sense of absolutes" show a god must exist?

God is a God of absolutes

Assertion.

and since I believe he created us then that's where I believe our sense of absolutes come from.

So, you believe it, therefore it's true?

Tell me, if you believed the Sun revolved around the Earth, would that change reality?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Me too (although I don't think of them as dinner hahaha) It's quite interesting knowing why other people believe what they believe. Well then you should check it out...Bible Questions Answered

I don't see this happening, however. I see simple denial in the face of the evidence against your claim. That does not translate to "understanding what makes others tick."

Oh, and I'm curious if you also believe the Earth is flat and has the sun revolve around it. There are those in the Flat Earth Society who would challenge your faith if you think the Earth is round, just to warn you.

 

[Vadergirl123]

So as to the biblical contradictions there's 463, so I'm going to create a new thread having to deal with them specifically. If you're interested feel free to check it out

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Well there's no way you can be absolutely sure.

As I've already said, we don't need to be.

Who says it's quite sufficient?

If a Doctor were to tell you she was 97-99% certain you had cancer, would you just shrug and say "Oh, so you don't know if I have it or not." and leave?

However lets say one of the times you drop it there's a table underneath you. Then the ball won't fall to the ground. It'll fall onto the table.

You missed my point. Regardless of the table, I can still be certain the ball will fall when I let it go the 11th time. Based on the 10 prior experiments (as well as a basic understanding of gravity), I can be reasonably sure that when I release the ball it won't fly upwards and hit the ceiling.

what if years from now we discover those assumptions aren't true(it's happened in science before).

New evidence either leads to improvement of current ideas or to new ideas. Either way, that's how our understanding improves. That's how science improves itself.

My whole point is assumptions ARE MADE(and of course scientists have to make them) but they're STILL assupmtions.

Based on reason and evidence. Forgive me, but you seem to be equating "they're assuming" with "they're guessing" and that's not at all what they're doing.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I don't see what the rounding of pi has to do with my salvation?

Exactly. :yes:



Even if the Bible is wrong in it's calculations of Pi, your salvation is intact.

Think about it.

 

[sayak83]

What available "evidence?" I haven't heard of any "evidence" for the world being 4.5 billion years old.

Hi Vadergirl.

By now several forum members have posted several lines of evidence for the age of the earth (various different dating techniques that use different physical principles, paleomagnetic records, plate tectonics etc etc). Now this being science will have certain assumptions and some uncertainties built into it. Every branch of empirical knowledge has them. The uncertainties are only a few % with regards to earth's age (esp. if you are comparing between a few thousand yr hypothesis and a few billion yr. hypothesis.) The only assumptions made is that, unless there is evidence otherwise we assume that physical laws have not changed. Its an assumption that has successfully worked in understanding the unfolding of our universe since the big bang, and hence for now there is no reason to doubt it.
Below is a popular level account of dating methods
Bones, Rocks and Stars: The Science of When Things Happened
And a Critique of Young Earth Arguments may be found by searching
How Good Are Those Young-Earth Arguments?
A Close Look at Dr. Hovind's List of Young-Earth Arguments and Other Claims

A good resource is also found on USGS website on geochronology.

If you are genuinely interested I would advice you to follow up and read more on these things carefully and with patience.

For me personally Bible is just one religious literature among many. Your view point is different, which is fine. My humble advice to you is
1) The age of earth and universe is a factual question. Science looks at the natural world to find clues that could lead to an answer. From the scientific viewpoint the current age of the earth (4.5 by) is the best way to stitch together the clues and finding from many aspects of nature. Try to explore why this is without choosing a preferred hypothesis about earth's age beforehand.
2) You believe Bible to be a source of knowledge about earth's antiquity as well. It is something you are within your rights to believe. After understanding the scientific case, it is up to you to decide whether you believe biblical knowledge claims can trump them or not. If it does for you its fine, you have chosen to believe that knowledge from a certain religious document is more convincing to you than knowledge claims from the scientific methodologies.

I put more stock on knowledge claims from science than from faith traditions, but we can agree to disagree on that.

 

[shawn001]

Originally Posted by shawn001
Originally Posted by Vadergirl123
And I don't have a problem with "scientific advancement"(as long as it doesn't contradict the bible)


Like?

"The Inquisition condemned Galileo in 1633 because his teachings clashed with the Bible, which read: "God fixed the earth upon its foundation, not to be moved forever." Galileo was rehabilitated after 359 years. "


Galileo was right and this is wrong ""God fixed the earth upon its foundation, not to be moved forever."


So Vadergirl123, does the earth rotate around the sun or the sun around the earth? How do we know?

Could you give me the passage of where you got that verse(I'd like to read it b/c I'm pretty sure you're taking it out of context) I don't believe Gallileo's beliefs contradicted the bible. And the inquisition wasn't even biblical. They were part of a church that twisted the words of the bible around for their own gain


Ecclesiastes 1:4 and 5
One generation goeth, and another generation cometh; but the earth abideth for ever.The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to its place where it ariseth.

Psalms 92
He has made the world firm, not to be moved.

Psalms 103
You fixed the earth upon its foundation, not to be moved forever.


The earth wont last forever because our sun wll go red giant.

The earth is not fixed " upon its foundation, not to be moved forever." and it does move.


Gallileo was right!

You have already been proven wrong on the age of the earth for a fact, millions if not billions of facts.


The galaxy song

"Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

Monty Python

 

[shawn001]

These and the actual science behind them prove your Beliefs, totally wrong.

Its totally amazing you think the earth is 6000 years old. Its actually amazing in 2012 some people think this way and know so little science about our home planet earth.

I also don't think you know we have ice core samples going back a million years.

Paleoclimatology: The Ice Core Record :

"To pry climate clues out of the ice, scientists began to drill long cores out of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica in the late 1960s. By the time Alley and the GISP2 project finished in the early 1990s, they had pulled a nearly 2-mile-long core (3,053.44 meters) from the Greenland ice sheet, providing a record of at least the past 110,000 years. Even older records going back about 750,000 years have come out of Antarctica. Scientists have also taken cores from thick mountain glaciers in places such as the Andes Mountains in Peru and Bolivia, Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania, and the Himalayas in Asia."

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Paleoclimatology_IceCores/


[youtube]Xs4yNL1M8Gg[/youtube]
How The Earth Was Made.The Ring Of Fire. - YouTube


[youtube]RcOcWBDlFik[/youtube]
How the Earth Was Made: New York - YouTube


[youtube]UizPBG4mzqg[/youtube]
How The Earth Was Made.Yellowstone. - YouTube


[youtube]IhRK-RUGwbE[/youtube]
How The Earth Was Made.Iceland. - YouTube


I also don't think you know where the 6000 year old earth idea came from, because it wasn't the bible.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Nothing. I have no reason to "believe" anything regarding god(s).

I have no reason not to believe in a God

 

[Vadergirl123]

Really? Is that what I said?



No, as I said, you're the one that's doing that.



Go back and find what I said and re-post it. My exact words, please.



No, you can't. You can assert it. However, asserting it and showing it are two very different things



Really? Did I not say that there are ways we can be "fairly certain" of things? I can be reasonably certain of reality even if I don't claim "absolute" certainty.



The Law of Identity.



P. E. A. R. L. - Physical Evidence and Reasoned Logic



Nonsense.

Twice you've said you don't "necessarily think it comes from anywhere" You can't be absolutely sure though
If something didn't come FROM ANYWHERE then it's always been around(and I'm not claiming you said that but if something doesn't originate then it has to have always been around.) I mean if soemthing didn't originate and it ahsn't always ben around then where does it come from?
Actually if I make the assumption God is real and exists then I CAN "show" from his word how our planet came into being and how life was formed, but yeah if I don't make the assumption then I can't show anything.
Well I'm 100% sure God created this universe and are you saying you're only "fairly certain" the earth is 4.5 billion years old? You can't be sure
How can you be absolutely sure of the law of identity or P.E.A.R.L you're only fairly certain, not absolutely. They might not even exist. You can't be absolutely sure they do.
You can't be absolutely sure you have no sense of absolutes...

 

[Vadergirl123]

How does "our sense of absolutes" show a god must exist?



Assertion.



So, you believe it, therefore it's true?

Tell me, if you believed the Sun revolved around the Earth, would that change reality?

If I assume God is real and his word is true, then I beleive we were created in his image and we have a sense of what's true or false. We have a conscience, and we have a sense of absolutes. I woudl beleive all this from reading his word.
No my believeing it doesn't make it true.

 

[Vadergirl123]

I don't see this happening, however. I see simple denial in the face of the evidence against your claim. That does not translate to "understanding what makes others tick."

Oh, and I'm curious if you also believe the Earth is flat and has the sun revolve around it. There are those in the Flat Earth Society who would challenge your faith if you think the Earth is round, just to warn you.

You're right it doesn't. I should've worded my reply to the post better. I'm trying to understand the "evidence", but It still makes assumptions, and there's no way to prove how old the earth is without making them. No I don't believe the eath's flat, or that the sun revoloves around it.

 

[Father Heathen]

What available "evidence?" I haven't heard of any "evidence" for the world being 4.5 billion years old.

This is why home schooling sucks.

 

[Father Heathen]

:yes:I believe the bible is the absolute authority on everything. And according to what it says the world is about 6,000 yrs old

The bible says a lot of silly, nonsensical things. None of it substantiated by evidence or logic, however.

 

[Father Heathen]

Just because someone says something that doesn't make it true

And yet you place blind faith in the fables of ancient goat herders as if they were indisputable fact.

 

[Father Heathen]

Hhahaha good point, but yeah if God says something then it's true.( I know very biased) lol but true

And how do you know it's the actual word of god rather than the words of men placed in god's mouth? After all, there are thousands of different religions each with their own holy texts, all claiming to be the divine word of god.