Alabama passes bill making some transgender healthcare a felony

[Wildswanderer]

You forgot that AGW is a real thing.

Actual Gold weight?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You do understand that there's no such thing as free money, right? You do understand when you artificially stimulate the economy, the piper will have to be paid and soon? What it actually does is make it harder to make ends meet as we are experiencing now.

Yes. we understand this. It is the the Trump believers that do not seem to understand this. All around the world there was a disease that caused governments to shut down various activities. Toi keep the economy going stimuli needed to be used. They were well aware that inflation would almost certainly be the result. Inflation is a hidden tax and we are now paying it to cover those stimuli. Joe Biden was not the only one that use stimulus programs. That is why there is inflation everywhere. It is a worldwide event Not a local one. If anything you should be making your illogical rants against Trump since he was the President when the pandemic started (I know it is not really Trump's fault either, but it would be at least slightly more logical to blame him than to blame Biden).

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes. we understand this. It is the the Trump believers that do not seem to understand this. All around the world there was a disease that caused governments to shut down various activities. Toi keep the economy going stimuli needed to be used. They were well aware that inflation would almost certainly be the result. Inflation is a hidden tax and we are now paying it to cover those stimuli. Joe Biden was not the only one that use stimulus programs. That is why there is inflation everywhere. It is a worldwide event Not a local one. If anything you should be making your illogical rants against Trump since he was the President when the pandemic started (I know it is not really Trump's fault either, but it would be at least slightly more logical to blame him than to blame Biden).

I don't care who was doing what in the past. I think you have some kind of fixation on Trump that isn't healthy. For about the millionth time, I'm not a fan of Trump. I liked what he did overall better than the current administration but this isn't about the orange man.
What matters is what the people in the office now are doing to destroy our economy and I don't think it's by accident.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't care who was doing what in the past. I think you have some kind of fixation on Trump that isn't healthy. For about the millionth time, I'm not a fan of Trump. I liked what he did overall better than the current administration but this isn't about the orange man.
What matters is what the people in the office now are doing to destroy our economy and I don't think it's by accident.

LOL!!! This is not a fixation on Trump. I was trying to explain why your incredibly bad logic fails. You are the one with a fixation. I have pointed out more than once that Trump was not to blame for the pandemic. But it did start while he was the President. The inflation that we see worldwide is due to the Pandemic. We have to pay for the money used to get us through it. Biden did what had to be done. It was not a liberal move. It was a humanitarian one.

Did Biden cause the pandemic? If your answer is no then that also has to be the answer to the question:

Di Biden cause the inflation that we see?

The only reason that we saw this fast of a response in the worldwide economy is because every nation had to cope with the pandemic in some way. And that caused a rapid onset of inflation. Usually it takes two years minimum for a Presidential action to have an economic effect and it is usually longer.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Same reason black people get uppity when white folks dress up as black characters, wear blackface, or replace black roles.

How is blackface even remotely the same thing as we are talking about here?

 

[SkepticThinker]

You do understand that there's no such thing as free money, right? You do understand when you artificially stimulate the economy, the piper will have to be paid and soon? What it actually does is make it harder to make ends meet as we are experiencing now.

Further confirmation that what I said was accurate.
Thank you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Further confirmation that what I said was accurate.
Thank you.

I love it when those reasoning irrationally shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Okay, so if woman is so irrelevant and arbitrary, why do people want to label themselves as such?

I never said the concept of "woman" itself is arbitrary (although, in many ways, it is), just your specific definition. And I never used the word "irrelevant", so I have no idea where you got that from.

The reason it matters is because we live in a society that tells us our worth, position, aims and standing are all at least partly tied to these terms. We all have expectations forced upon us from birth about what to expect to see in others and what is expected of ourselves, and for many people the act of identifying a particular label compels others to see them in a particular way that they prefer.

What's the importance of women's rights? Why did we fight for so long, for something that is as you say, irrelevant?

I never said it was irrelevant. I said your definition of is arbitrary and useless. Which it is.

Tell me, woke gremlin.

Aww, cute! I have a nickname!

I will have to come up with one for you some time.

Why are we fighting so hard for equal pay? If woman doesn't mean anything at all, or it mean whatever trans people say it means, shall we get rid of feminism then? What's the importance?

Because there is still a disparity between male and female. The source of this disparity just isn't the fact that women have ovaries.

I mean, by your definition, all of the disparity between the genders is equally meaningless and of no import, because the ONLY signifier of women is having been born with ovaries. You cannot talk about the social roles, expectations or concepts of womanhood, because "womanhood" is only defined by one very specific biological trait.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Di Biden cause the inflation that we see?

Yes, he is at least partially to blame.. or rather his handlers are, I don't think he has enough cognitive function to be blamed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, he is at least partially to blame.. or rather his handlers are, I don't think he has enough cognitive function to be blamed.

Really? You still have that believe even though you cannot think of any real programs that he stared that are inflationary. Amazing. And you try to claim that I have a fixation with Trump. At least I only want to prosecute Trump for crimes that he was actually guilty of.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Really? You still have that believe even though you cannot think of any real programs that he stared that are inflationary. Amazing. And you try to claim that I have a fixation with Trump. At least I only want to prosecute Trump for crimes that he was actually guilty of.

I already told you what he did that was inflationary. You need more?
"The Biden-Harris administration’s $6 trillion budget for fiscal year (FY) 2002 is 37 percent greater than the $4.4 trillion spent in FY 2019, which was the last budget before the pandemic.

"Even with a $4 trillion tax increase, there is still a $1.84 trillion deficit, which is 86 percent greater than the $984 billion deficit in FY 2019. Deficits will exceed $1 trillion for each of the next ten years, pushing the national debt to more than $39 trillion from the current $28.4 trillion.


The Trump administration’s four budgets included an average of $50 billion in program eliminations and reductions, making it 40 consecutive years of presidential administrations providing such proposals to Congress. But the Biden-Harris budget for FY 2022 has broken that streak by providing no list of program consolidations or terminations, either separately or as part of the total budget submission.
During his April 28, 2021, address to Congress, President Biden did not say a single word about wasteful spending, nor has he made any other comments or issued any executive orders requiring federal agencies to identify or reduce inefficiency. Vice President Harris likewise has said nothing about these issues."

 

[Subduction Zone]

I already told you what he did that was inflationary. You need more?
"The Biden-Harris administration’s $6 trillion budget for fiscal year (FY) 2002 is 37 percent greater than the $4.4 trillion spent in FY 2019, which was the last budget before the pandemic.

"Even with a $4 trillion tax increase, there is still a $1.84 trillion deficit, which is 86 percent greater than the $984 billion deficit in FY 2019. Deficits will exceed $1 trillion for each of the next ten years, pushing the national debt to more than $39 trillion from the current $28.4 trillion.


The Trump administration’s four budgets included an average of $50 billion in program eliminations and reductions, making it 40 consecutive years of presidential administrations providing such proposals to Congress. But the Biden-Harris budget for FY 2022 has broken that streak by providing no list of program consolidations or terminations, either separately or as part of the total budget submission.
During his April 28, 2021, address to Congress, President Biden did not say a single word about wasteful spending, nor has he made any other comments or issued any executive orders requiring federal agencies to identify or reduce inefficiency. Vice President Harris likewise has said nothing about these issues."

Sorry, you need to find an unbiased source. If you want others to believe you do not use one that is more likely to be guilty of lying than not:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/national-review/

There are going to be plenty of reliable news sources that cover this same story. Try Reuters or the AP. They are both as neutral as you will find.

 

[setarcos]

These drugs are not handed out easily.

I never said that they were. I will say that where ever pharmaceuticals and the medical industry is concerned we must be extra careful

to vet hidden agendas.

They do evaluate the child the bast that they can. And yes, interfering with puberty can have drawbacks.

Evaluating a child's condition and determining the best therapeutic course to treat that condition require two different processes. With a third process used to determine the relationship between those first two. And yes interfering with puberty can create worse problems for the individual than it was supposed to help. Especially if that individual turns out to be exhibiting a temporary aberration in an otherwise normal development. Children are quick to pick up memes often to their own detriment. None of the studies I've read can ensure that the therapy isn't reinforcing an acquired meme in the child rather than treating a permanent condition.

if the person truly is trans then puberty does immense and irreversible damage to that person.

And how do you determine if a person "truly" is trans except after the fact? The only way to diagnose gender dysphasia to my knowledge is by asking the individual and observing the individual's actions which again are dictated by the individual. There are several factors concerning the human condition which might interfere with an honest self analysis of ones own condition. Especially if your a child.

The individual may have a condition which encourages self harm in the form of negative peer or parental reaction, a desire for self mutilation, some kind of unrecognized Munchausen syndrome etc...

" When attention-seeking and control-seeking behaviors don’t work for children, they lack a feeling of personal power, significance and belonging. This often results in hurtful, revenge-seeking behavior." From Nashville Psych

The Child may be reacting to an unrealistically perceived lack of attention from its parents. Good parents reinforce this method of attention seeking, bad parents reinforce the child's attempt to harm the parents.

In essence, how does science narrow down the correct disease of the mind when the only window to the disconnect between the child's mind and gender/body is via the child's own testimony?

You are arguing from ignorance.

And how could you possibly know that? Because you disagree with me? I may be ignorant in some aspects of this discussion but I do not argue

my points "from" ignorance.

You do not know what steps they take to confirm their diagnosis. Guess what? I do not know either. But there are times that one needs to trust the experts in the fields.

The accepted "steps" are public knowledge. As they should be.


The Mayo Clinic criteria

What are the criteria for use of pubertal blockers?

To begin using pubertal blockers, a child must:

· Show a long-lasting and intense pattern of gender nonconformity or gender dysphoria

· Have gender dysphoria that began or worsened at the start of puberty

· Address any psychological, medical or social problems that could interfere with treatment

· Have entered the early stage of puberty

· Provide informed consent

Particularly when a child hasn't reached the age of medical consent, parents or other caretakers or guardians must consent to the treatment and support the adolescent through the treatment process.

Even the “experts” on this subject matter aren’t in uniform agreement. A little research into the “field” of gender dysphoria and transgendered individuals will show you that.

If you had your way there would be countless trans people trapped in a body that does not fit them.

If I had my way there would be no dysmorphia to contend with. But alas we live in an imperfect world. I feel for those people. I really do. I can't imagine being one of them but I can imagine what it must be like to experience a disconnect between mind and body. Do we just ignore their need for treatment? Of course not. I just think being hell bent on normalizing a disease results in accommodating symptoms rather than concentrating on finding a cure. Why should we be so quick to alter an otherwise natural body in order to accommodate a diseased mind, with potential for further harm rather than treating the diseased mind in order to bring it into accordance with the natural body? I’ve read tens of studies on this matter and conclude that the science is just not where it needs to be yet to make very accurate analysis of these conditions.

The physicians involved have to

make a judgement call.

And that judgement call according to what I've read, is often inaccurate and sometimes just flat out wrong.

Is it better to let nature take its course as far as the body goes and hope that it does not psychologically scar someone for life or step in and use what is a largely reversible procedure.

I’d say it would be better to let nature take its course as far as biology is concerned and treat the underlying psychology of the child. Calling the use of pubertal blockers reversible is a misnomer. The use of so called (GnRH) analogues pause puberty. Its stoppage doesn’t reverse the effects of pausing puberty it simply allows it to start again. However this pause causes a disconnect between the timing of psychological maturity in conjunction with physical reproductive maturity the consequence of which are poorly understood.

This needs to be an option for trans children.

The question is, “Is it a good option?”

When you learn a bit more about this then you might have a valid opinion, but right now your opinion is more apt to harm people than help them.

Yeah of course, you’ve analyzed my opinions and have assumed my ignorance rather than addressing my arguments with counterpoints.

My opinion is not meant to be taken as any recommendation of a course of treatment for people suffering from some form of dysphasia. My opinion is just that, an opinion. I like to think that it is an informed opinion in that I’ve read several current studies on the matter and in the interests of furthering an understanding in these matters which I think more people should do in order to lesson misunderstanding of these things and hostility or abuse towards these people in the general population, my opinion is a question of what is best for these people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I never said that they were. I will say that where ever pharmaceuticals and the medical industry is concerned we must be extra careful

to vet hidden agendas.



Evaluating a child's condition and determining the best therapeutic course to treat that condition require two different processes. With a third process used to determine the relationship between those first two. And yes interfering with puberty can create worse problems for the individual than it was supposed to help. Especially if that individual turns out to be exhibiting a temporary aberration in an otherwise normal development. Children are quick to pick up memes often to their own detriment. None of the studies I've read can ensure that the therapy isn't reinforcing an acquired meme in the child rather than treating a permanent condition.




And how do you determine if a person "truly" is trans except after the fact? The only way to diagnose gender dysphasia to my knowledge is by asking the individual and observing the individual's actions which again are dictated by the individual. There are several factors concerning the human condition which might interfere with an honest self analysis of ones own condition. Especially if your a child.

The individual may have a condition which encourages self harm in the form of negative peer or parental reaction, a desire for self mutilation, some kind of unrecognized Munchausen syndrome etc...

" When attention-seeking and control-seeking behaviors don’t work for children, they lack a feeling of personal power, significance and belonging. This often results in hurtful, revenge-seeking behavior." From Nashville Psych

The Child may be reacting to an unrealistically perceived lack of attention from its parents. Good parents reinforce this method of attention seeking, bad parents reinforce the child's attempt to harm the parents.

In essence, how does science narrow down the correct disease of the mind when the only window to the disconnect between the child's mind and gender/body is via the child's own testimony?



And how could you possibly know that? Because you disagree with me? I may be ignorant in some aspects of this discussion but I do not argue

my points "from" ignorance.



The accepted "steps" are public knowledge. As they should be.


The Mayo Clinic criteria

What are the criteria for use of pubertal blockers?

To begin using pubertal blockers, a child must:

· Show a long-lasting and intense pattern of gender nonconformity or gender dysphoria

· Have gender dysphoria that began or worsened at the start of puberty

· Address any psychological, medical or social problems that could interfere with treatment

· Have entered the early stage of puberty

· Provide informed consent

Particularly when a child hasn't reached the age of medical consent, parents or other caretakers or guardians must consent to the treatment and support the adolescent through the treatment process.

Even the “experts” on this subject matter aren’t in uniform agreement. A little research into the “field” of gender dysphoria and transgendered individuals will show you that.




If I had my way there would be no dysmorphia to contend with. But alas we live in an imperfect world. I feel for those people. I really do. I can't imagine being one of them but I can imagine what it must be like to experience a disconnect between mind and body. Do we just ignore their need for treatment? Of course not. I just think being hell bent on normalizing a disease results in accommodating symptoms rather than concentrating on finding a cure. Why should we be so quick to alter an otherwise natural body in order to accommodate a diseased mind, with potential for further harm rather than treating the diseased mind in order to bring it into accordance with the natural body? I’ve read tens of studies on this matter and conclude that the science is just not where it needs to be yet to make very accurate analysis of these conditions.




And that judgement call according to what I've read, is often inaccurate and sometimes just flat out wrong.




I’d say it would be better to let nature take its course as far as biology is concerned and treat the underlying psychology of the child. Calling the use of pubertal blockers reversible is a misnomer. The use of so called (GnRH) analogues pause puberty. Its stoppage doesn’t reverse the effects of pausing puberty it simply allows it to start again. However this pause causes a disconnect between the timing of psychological maturity in conjunction with physical reproductive maturity the consequence of which are poorly understood.



The question is, “Is it a good option?”



Yeah of course, you’ve analyzed my opinions and have assumed my ignorance rather than addressing my arguments with counterpoints.

My opinion is not meant to be taken as any recommendation of a course of treatment for people suffering from some form of dysphasia. My opinion is just that, an opinion. I like to think that it is an informed opinion in that I’ve read several current studies on the matter and in the interests of furthering an understanding in these matters which I think more people should do in order to lesson misunderstanding of these things and hostility or abuse towards these people in the general population, my opinion is a question of what is best for these people.

You do not seem to have a point. The facts are that there are trans people out there. Medicine is often more of an art than a science so experts have to make the best judgments that they can. Will they be wrong sometimes? Yes. But overall they have a much better success rate than doing nothing.

Do you have a valid complaint about the use of puberty blocking drugs?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Okay, so if woman is so irrelevant and arbitrary, why do people want to label themselves as such? What's the importance of women's rights? Why did we fight for so long, for something that is as you say, irrelevant? Tell me, woke gremlin. Why are we fighting so hard for equal pay? If woman doesn't mean anything at all, or it mean whatever trans people say it means, shall we get rid of feminism then? What's the importance?

I'm not sure what impact you think acknowledging transwomen is going to have on the pay gap. If we make it illegal to have wage discrimination based on sex or gender than nobody, regardless of their sex or gender, would be given unequal pay.

Also lol at the idea that transwomen are treated better than ciswomen in the workplace. Or anywhere really.

 

[fantome profane]

Even the “experts” on this subject matter aren’t in uniform agreement. A little research into the “field” of gender dysphoria and transgendered individuals will show you that.

But the expert opinions are the best opinions we currently have. We should not be substituting expert opinion with politicians, or even internet pundits, even if they have read a few studies. I give you full credit for doing research. But reading a few studies does not qualify you to make medical decisions for other people, or other people's children. And I certainly don't think a state Senator from Alabama should be making those decisions either (have you researched those guys?).

If you are suggesting that more studies need to be done, I agree. But right now let's leave medical decisions up to the parents who care for the children and the doctors who have their patients best interest in mind.

In an imperfect world we do the best we can, even while striving to do better.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A lot of people care, actually. How about when a black character is played by a white actor? Wait, that already happened. It happened to the point of forcing white actors to apologize for their part, and even caused directors to recast. However, when a white character is cast by a black person, it's fine. No, it's not just fine, it's *woke*, it's *progressive*, it's *brave*. Just spare me the double standard racist bull****... please! The fact is, Ariel is just one among many white characters recast by black or other non white actors. If you think it stops at fiction, it doesn't. If the left didn't make such a big deal out of white actors playing black roles, it would bother me less.

It's called acting. Anyone and everyone who cares needs to reconsider their priorities and get a life.
Ariel is fake. Get over it. It's like the new Weenie the Pooh movie. No one owns the character, there are no laws saying he can't be a psychotic killer, so if you don't like then don't watch. That old "change the channel" thing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Okay, so if woman is so irrelevant and arbitrary, why do people want to label themselves as such? What's the importance of women's rights? Why did we fight for so long, for something that is as you say, irrelevant? Tell me, woke gremlin. Why are we fighting so hard for equal pay? If woman doesn't mean anything at all, or it mean whatever trans people say it means, shall we get rid of feminism then? What's the importance?

Go get a stereotyped male job if you want more pay. That's how that one works. "Pink collar" jobs, for both men and women but more frequently held by women, just don't pay as well as fields dominated by men.
Do get your stuff straight before launching into yet another baseless rant.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It's called acting. Anyone and everyone who cares needs to reconsider their priorities and get a life.
Ariel is fake. Get over it. It's like the new Weenie the Pooh movie. No one owns the character, there are no laws saying he can't be a psychotic killer, so if you don't like then don't watch. That old "change the channel" thing.

Whats funny is this is such a 2022 complaint. Cinderella has been played by a black woman and had a series of books released in the ethnic and cultural styles of multiple regions. Nobody batted an eye.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Whats funny is this is such a 2022 complaint. Cinderella has been played by a black woman and had a series of books released in the ethnic and cultural styles of multiple regions. Nobody batted an eye.

Yeah, Shakespearean troupes have even role reversed Othello, and met with applause for forcing a fresh view on us that makes us think again and reconsider things.
However, I am absolutely stunned that actors have launched up the social rungs and aren't at the bottom anymore, and it happened so fast. But please don't elevate it so high it becomes a sacred cow and the creative process killed off. Some of our best plays have a lot of fun at the expense of theatre being acted out, fake, and especially historically played by people who probably weren't the same gender as the character played. But instead of saying it can't happen and throwing a fit and trying to cancel it they took mirthful stabs at it.