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You mean a legal distinction that is determined by INTENT and CONTEXT?
Since when have you been an expert on what matters to me?
No. That’s not how I see things. “Bad” is a reductive and meaningless term that can mean anything to anybody. I prefer more specific language.
Since you think it's hypocritical to think a thing can be justified in one context and not another.
Cool. So then you agree that arguing that people are hypocrites for not embracing reductive and meaningless moral positions and instead basing their moral determinations on broader intent and context rather than the simple labelling a specific action as "bad" is a very dumb thing to do, right?
Killing is killing, right? If someone believes killing in one situation (self defense) is justified, but killing in another situation (for fun) is not, that makes them a hypocrite, correct?
Like how Ariel is well established? What's the difference?
The Disney cartoon from whatever year is well established. Ariel, the actual character, can be anything the story teller desires. This is why I mentioned the Weenie the Pooh Blood and Honey movie. It's not how Pooh and Piglet were originally portrayed, it's not how Disney portray them, but it's an entirely new portrayal from a new story teller. Or the live action Jungle Book. Baloo doesn't actually have to be a cartoon or any specific species of bear, and changing the voice from Phil Harris to Bill Murray is not inappropriate or wrong, but a different portrayal of the character. It can even be Andy Sirkus in a non-Disney portrayal. They are all Baloo, but different Baloos.
Good. Glad you agree that it’s fine to recast Pocahontas as Asian. Alternative universe and all.
I wonder at this point in the debate, have you forgotten which side you were arguing for? Have you gotten yourself turned around?
I actually would be fine with that. The story of Pochahontas in the Disney sense, which doesn't reflect the historical character at all anyway, is ultimately about native interaction with colonialism, and that story can be applied to quite a lot of people, including Asians. Not even human people always. See: Cameron's Avatar.
It’s fine if it works all ways, including changing black characters into any other race, including white.
Touché, yours is bogus trash, no yours is....
First of all I'm not unfamiliar with the field. I've taken Psych 101 actually and Abnormal Psychology and...omg, you've drawn me into a a dead end unsubstantiated argument. Shame on me. Anyways..
You are most right in requesting this. And that is what discussions should be all about. I give my opinions based on what I think I know, what I've come to learn, or what I think I know regarding what I've learned and then you ask....why do you think that way, why is that your opinion? That is good conversation. Lets try to leave the insults regarding ones intelligence out of it. We're all wrong sometimes but we don't have to "rudely" point that out.
? How about you reread my other post and think about what I'm saying. I think your arguing from emotion rather than reason for the most part. We've seen stuff going on? What does that mean?
Your rude and arrogant in your own opinions and "understanding". You should work on that. I thought this was a forum created to discuss ideas and opinions about the subject. I didn't create this forum but because someone created it I assumed it was an imitation to discussion.
Yes. The consequences of their use is too little understood. The science is too in disagreement, the statistics too questionable. Rather than list some of the journal articles I've read again just see my post to Shadow wolf to get some of the gest of what I mean. Appreciate your input.
That is not really a valid argument since a "maybe" is trumped by what we do know. And we do know that for trans people that the changes brought on by puberty can be very damaging. A "maybe this is a problem" never trumps a "we know this to be a problem".
Can't disagree with you here.
I agree. However the experts have to work within the law. Medicine is governed by the law. The medical establishment does not make the law. Those that make the law are not always if not rarely medical experts. But they do depend on medical experts or they should, to make the laws concerning medicine. So inevitably those that make the law get the opinions of those in the medical field, right or wrong, in order to make the law.
Where did you get the idea that I thought I was making medical decisions for other people or their children, let alone expecting them to follow it? God help those that enter these forums seeking medical advice to follow. They might get ideas or opinion but any advice they follow should be discussed between them and a qualified medical doctor.
I have not researched those guys but as I've said that is the process we have. We don't let medical experts make laws unless they have been elected to do so and not all elected officials making laws are medical experts but they sure as heck should get their input before making a law concerning the field. Sad to say, sometimes the system fails. But that's the nature of the beast of fallibility we have to deal with. I just think though, for now its a better course, according to the expert opinions I've read, to not use puberty blockers in these cases.
Yes I agree. But the best we can right now may just be not using these blockers until we have a better grasp on the science. Like whether or not they ultimately make things better or worse. Sometimes not doing something is better than doing something because we "think" it might be better.
I think I've shown somewhat a tiny portion in my post to shadow wolf if you'd read it that the source of the damage we do know happens to some trans people has not been solidly nor solely attributable to puberty. In essence...it brings up the lagitimate question of "what DO we know" about the problems? The answer, at least according to the journals I've read is, not much. The biological factors involved are massively complex. By the same criteria we do know that delaying puberty can have severe consequences, short and long term. Why does the maybe a source of stress in adult trans people trump maybe short and long term consequences in delaying puberty? There's enough if not more evidence showing delaying puberty causes physical, psychological, and social stressors in the organism. And even worse if that human turned out to be misdiagnosed. There's evidence that "retransers" are on the increase as well. The science is all mucked up. The default position should be to let nature take its course until we get these things figured out. In my opinion were going to end up screwing up more people than we hoped to help and that's not good medical practice.
Links and a few points and summary are adequate. I don't read walls of text and they are a massive clutter to the flow of the forum. And they are against forum rules.
That means we have seen how the brains of transgender people more resemble the sex of their identity than the sex of their birth. We've seen, time and time again, means to make people cis have failed.
I'm tired of laymen not educated in the field acting like their opinion is just as valid as those who have actually studied the subject, a subject that doesn't actually concern them but does concern the well being of someone they probably dont even know. And you feel confident because you've had two low level courses. I have a degree and professional experience.
It's not even recast. It's a new cast for a new telling of the story. These things are ok, and they happen all the time.
Yes, I have read them and I am not denying them. Why did you think that I was? Is it due to you ignoring the worse damage done by going through puberty for a trans individual? That is called "projection".
This is a very good post. Trans people are not of one mind of this. Many of us agree that minors should not be medically transitioning because it's too risky, there's too many unknowns and also because very young people are unlikely to fully understand the choice they are making in that regard. Even just with hormones, there's all kinds of unknowns and the changes happen cumulatively, over time. They don't just stop. There's changes that have happened to me in the last couple years, and I'm 8 years on testosterone. I wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't gone through it. There's also a known chronic pain issue that most trans men seem to suffer from, tied to testosterone therapy and how it may effect the uterus, but no one knows what is really causing it! They just started talking about in tentative research!
I don't agree with how puberty is being presented here. Puberty sucks for the majority of people. It just sucks in a somewhat different way for transsexuals. But the truth is, eventually a trans person is going to have to accept that they're a transsexual, afflicted with a terrible condition and that they'll never fully have the body they want. A full "sex change" is simply impossible as it stands now. A lot of them will have "all" the surgeries, be on hormones for many years and then still kill themselves or otherwise be very disappointed because they realize the dysphoria is still there and the hormones and surgeries weren't a "cure" (as they are often presented). Certainly Jazz Jennings doesn't seem to be totally happy and content after being on blockers and then going on hormones and having surgeries at a young age. She suffers from an eating disorder, depression and had problems with her SRS.
And then there's the ones who kill themselves because they regret it. (I remember one trans man who was granted legal euthanasia in Belgium, I think it was, because he felt the hormones and surgeries had left him "a monster".) I was traumatized by many things in life and dissociated from my body for most of my life, but I still would rather have gone through natural puberty. I think the body should be given a chance before you decide to permanently alter it in such drastic ways.