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Alarm Bells Are Ringing At DNC

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Can you explain why you voted for Trump twice?
Sure. In 2016 I did not vote for Trump in the primaries. When the election came around I was debating between voting for Trump or not voting for president at all. I voted for Trump because he said he would:

1. Generally put America first in all decisions.
2. He would nominate justices at all levels of the system that would rule per the constitutional nd laws not on their political agendas.
3. Secure our borders from mass illegal immigration. I have never heard of an argument from the dems as to why it is a bad idea to know who is coming into the country.
4. Bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, renegotiate trade deals to benefit the US such as NAFTA.
5. Cut taxes for everyone.
6. Get out of Afghanistan.
7. Ensure our military was prepared and adequately funded.

I gladly voted for Trump in 2020 because of what he had already accomplished.

1. Lowest unemployment rate in 50 years and record lows for minorities.
2. Bottom 50% of households say a 40% increase in wealth.
3. created manufacturing jobs in the US.
4. Getting vaccine fast.
5. Overall households net worth increased by a record level.
6. All saw tax relief.
7. Eliminated a lot of regulation that was not necessary.
8. Fair trade with other countries.
9. The US produced more oil and natural gas than we consumed.
10. Lowest gas prices in a decade.
11. Stood up to the media and exposed how they are a marketing wing of the dem party.
12. Supported police.
13. Nominated justices that rule based on the law and not their ideology.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Sure. In 2016 I did not vote for Trump in the primaries. When the election came around I was debating between voting for Trump or not voting for president at all. I voted for Trump because he said he would:

1. Generally put America first in all decisions.

Who hasn't?

2. He would nominate justices at all levels of the system that would rule per the constitutional nd laws not on their political agendas.

No, no no. He did the opposite of that. He put judges in position based upon their politics.

3. Secure our borders from mass illegal immigration. I have never heard of an argument from the dems as to why it is a bad idea to know who is coming into the country.

Nope. He did not do that either. The Wall always was a joke. If you have not heard any arguments of what he did wrong then you were not listening.

4. Bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, renegotiate trade deals to benefit the US such as NAFTA.

He did renegotiate NAFTA and did not screw that up. But I have only seen claims of bringing jobs back. What new factories opened that would not have opened otherwise? Are you aware of what the economy was doing before he was elected? He only maintained the same rate of growth that Obama had.

5. Cut taxes for everyone.

But mostly for the rich and in a totally ignorant way that would have eventually caused a recession even if we were not hit by a pandemic. His claim of the tax cuts paying themselves was a lie.

6. Get out of Afghanistan.

Granted he did do that. The failure at the end was his of course, it was his plan. But it was still a good idea.

7. Ensure our military was prepared and adequately funded.

Did he? And this is problematical considering the unpaid tax cuts of his. Under Obama the deficit was falling. Under Trump it rose for no good reason.

I gladly voted for Trump in 2020 because of what he had already accomplished.

1. Lowest unemployment rate in 50 years and record lows for minorities.

What makes you think that was Trump's accomplishment? All he did was not screw up the recovery that began with Obama. He cannot take credit for that.

2. Bottom 50% of households say a 40% increase in wealth.

Citation needed, and not from a right wing soruce.

3. created manufacturing jobs in the US

Where and how.

.
4. Getting vaccine fast.

Hey guess what, I give him some credit for that. He lost credit since he did not insist that his followers get vaccinated. He lost a huge amount of credit for his political rallies in the middle of a Pandemic. I would be willing to bet that he caused over a thousand deaths personally by holding them.

5. Overall households net worth increased by a record level.

Hard to say. If one makes the error of just going by dollar figures then you are probably right, but again, was that him? If you remember that money is a variable then that may not be the case.

6. All saw tax relief.

Not true. The poorest saw no tax relief. The rich saw an immense tax relief.

7. Eliminated a lot of regulation that was not necessary.

And that does not appear to be the case. He eliminated quite a bit that was necessary and since it was done by executive order they are back. So that is a fail no matter how you look at it.

8. Fair trade with other countries.

I will grant that he likely helped on the trade front.

9. The US produced more oil and natural gas than we consumed.

So you are crediting Obama? Or even Bush. That is not Trump accomplishment:

One study found the world's largest oil and gas fields averaged 5.5 years from discovery to first production and took 17 years of production on average to reach peak output.10 Chevron Corporation's (CVX) Gorgon natural gas development project off the coast of Australia took 30 years to progress from discovery to construction and nearly six more years to start producing liquefied natural gas.11


How Long Does It Take to Drill and Produce Oil?

People are often quite ignorant of how long it takes for new oil to be delivered to the market.

10. Lowest gas prices in a decade.

That was definitely not Trump's doing, unless you want to blame him for the pandemic. Are you sure that you want to claim this one?

11. Stood up to the media and exposed how they are a marketing wing of the dem party.

Please, don't make me laugh.

12. Supported police.

Perhaps, but incredibly ineptly. I agree that there were quite a few false claims behind BLM, but for some people perception is reality. We can get into a discussion some other time of how overtaxing the abilities of police departments led to the BLM movement.

13. Nominated justices that rule based on the law and not their ideology.

That has already been refuted. In fact you made most of the same errors twice. You either fooled yourself or bought into a bunch of false claims if you really believe most of that nonsense. If you want to discuss one at a time I am fine with that, but to me you just failed when you tried to justify your vote.
 
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Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Who hasn't?

2. He would nominate justices at all levels of the system that would rule per the constitutional nd laws not on their political agendas.

No, no no. He did the opposite of that. He put judges in position based upon their politics.



Nope. He did not do that either. The Wall always was a joke. If you have not heard any arguments of what he did wrong then you were not listening.



He did renegotiate NAFTA and did not screw that up. But I have only seen claims of bringing jobs back. What new factories opened that would not have opened otherwise? Are you aware of what the economy was doing before he was elected? He only maintained the same rate of growth that Obama had.



But mostly for the rich and in a totally ignorant way that would have eventually caused a recession even if we were not hit by a pandemic. His claim of the tax cuts paying themselves was a lie.



Granted he did do that. The failure at the end was his of course, it was his plan. But it was still a good idea.



Did he? And this is problematical considering the unpaid tax cuts of his. Under Obama the deficit was falling. Under Trump it rose for no good reason.



What makes you think that was Trump's accomplishment? All he did was not screw up the recovery that began with Obama. He cannot take credit for that.



Citation needed, and not from a right wing soruce.



Where and how.



Hey guess what, I give him some credit for that. He lost credit since he did not insist that his followers get vaccinated. He lost a huge amount of credit for his political rallies in the middle of a Pandemic. I would be willing to bet that he caused over a thousand deaths personally by holding them.



Hard to say. If one makes the error of just going by dollar figures then you are probably right, but again, was that him? If you remember that money is a variable then that may not be the case.



Not true. The poorest saw no tax relief. The rich saw an immense tax relief.



And that does not appear to be the case. He eliminated quite a bit that was necessary and since it was done by executive order they are back. So that is a fail no matter how you look at it.



I will grant that he likely helped on the trade front.



So you are crediting Obama? Or even Bush. That is not Trump accomplishment:

One study found the world's largest oil and gas fields averaged 5.5 years from discovery to first production and took 17 years of production on average to reach peak output.10 Chevron Corporation's (CVX) Gorgon natural gas development project off the coast of Australia took 30 years to progress from discovery to construction and nearly six more years to start producing liquefied natural gas.11


How Long Does It Take to Drill and Produce Oil?

People are often quite ignorant of how long it takes for new oil to be delivered to the market.



That was definitely not Trump's doing, unless you want to blame him for the pandemic. Are you sure that you want to claim this one?



Please, don't make me laugh.



Perhaps, but incredibly ineptly. I agree that there were quite a few false claims behind BLM, but for some people perception is reality. We can get into a discussion some other time of how overtaxing the abilities of police departments led to the BLM movement.



That has already been refuted. In fact you made most of the same errors twice. You either fooled yourself or bought into a bunch of false claims if you really believe most of that nonsense. If you want to discuss one at a time I am fine with that, but to me you just failed when you tried to justify your vote.
Ok, think what you want. I answered your question, one you said no Trump supporter would answer.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
OAN is a marketing wing of the Dems? Moody Radio is working for the Dems? Pat Robertson is espousing pro-Dem views? Ted Nugent had a change of heart?
No. Try MSNBC, NBC, CNN, NPR, NY times, HuffPost, you know the bigger ones, the ones most libs watch. Of course Twitter, Facebook that are hostile to conservative opinions.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ok, I notice you did not refute them. You just made more claims as usual.
Actually I did refute one of them. If you want to discuss them individually, which is the only proper way, I am glad to do that. But if you want to go with your Gish Gallop then refuting one of them refutes all of them.

Why didn't you tell me that you did not read my post?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
No. Try MSNBC, NBC, CNN, NPR, NY times, HuffPost, you know the bigger ones, the ones most libs watch. Of course Twitter, Facebook that are hostile to conservative opinions.
Twitter and Facebook are only hostile to lies that harm other people. Such as lies about the pandemic, lies about who won the election. I am unaware of them taking action against people just because they are conservative.

And CNN did drift away from the center under Trump. But CBS did not. NPR, probably not. HuffPost was always rather left wing, but the rest are moderates. The problem with Trump is that he was so spectacularly wrong so often that it looked as if the media was out to get him.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Actually I did refute one of them. If you want to discuss them individually, which is the only proper way, I am glad to do that. But if you want to go with your Gish Gallop then refuting one of them refutes all of them.
Gish gallop? How dishonest of you. You asked me directly why I voted for Trump twice. I laid out my reasons. It is not Gish gallop. It is a direct answer to what you asked Jeesh.

Why didn't you tell me that you did not read my post?
I read it. You just said some you agreed with and most you disagreed with. Gave no evidence for your claims except maybe one.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Gish gallop? How dishonest of you. You asked me directly why I voted for Trump twice. I laid out my reasons. It is not Gish gallop. It is a direct answer to what you asked Jeesh.

I read it. You just said some you agreed with and most you disagreed with. Gave no evidence for your claims except maybe one.
It was a Gish Gallop since the vast majority of your claims are false and easily refuted.

I did more than just disagreeing. I gave reasons why they were wrong for many of your claims as well. And yes, I did refute one. All that Trump did was not to interfere with plans that had been in the works for years. Also you seem to be unaware that petroleum is priced internationally. Are you proposing socialism? That is the only way that we could force oil producers to sell US oil at a discount.

If you blame Biden for oil prices then your hopes of defending any of your beliefs are almost nil.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Twitter and Facebook are only hostile to lies that harm other people. Such as lies about the pandemic, lies about who won the election. I am unaware of them taking action against people just because they are conservative.

And CNN did drift away from the center under Trump. But CBS did not. NPR, probably not. HuffPost was always rather left wing, but the rest are moderates. The problem with Trump is that he was so spectacularly wrong so often that it looked as if the media was out to get him.
I think you are exceedingly confused if you think MSNBC is moderate.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Twitter and Facebook are only hostile to lies that harm other people. Such as lies about the pandemic, lies about who won the election. I am unaware of them taking action against people just because they are conservative.

And CNN did drift away from the center under Trump. But CBS did not. NPR, probably not. HuffPost was always rather left wing, but the rest are moderates. The problem with Trump is that he was so spectacularly wrong so often that it looked as if the media was out to get him.
HuffPo isn't even news.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
It was a Gish Gallop since the vast majority of your claims are false and easily refuted.
You are just wrong. Here is a definition from Wikipedia:

The Gish gallop /ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡælʌp/ is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. In essence, it is prioritizing quantity of one's arguments at expense of quality of said arguments.

This is not what I did. Again you asked me my reasons for voting for Trump, I listed them. It was not an argument for anything. You asked me for the list for goodness sakes.


I did more than just disagreeing. I gave reasons why they were wrong for many of your claims as well. And yes, I did refute one. All that Trump did was not to interfere with plans that had been in the works for years. Also you seem to be unaware that petroleum is priced internationally. Are you proposing socialism? That is the only way that we could force oil producers to sell US oil at a discount.

If you blame Biden for oil prices then your hopes of defending any of your beliefs are almost nil.
I acknowledge you disagree with them.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You are just wrong. Here is a definition from Wikipedia:

The Gish gallop /ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡælʌp/ is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. In essence, it is prioritizing quantity of one's arguments at expense of quality of said arguments.

This is not what I did. Again you asked me my reasons for voting for Trump, I listed them. It was not an argument for anything. You asked me for the list for goodness sakes.


I acknowledge you disagree with them.
Actually it was exactly what you did. It does not matter if you believe them or not. And I offered to go over them with you one at a time. If you believe that they are valid then you should have jumped at the chance.

Almost forgot. One trait of a Gish Gallop is that the galloper will almost always refuse to discuss the ideas one at a time.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Actually it was exactly what you did. It does not matter if you believe them or not.
You are confused. Here again is the definition from Wikipedia:

The Gish gallop /ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡælʌp/ is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. In essence, it is prioritizing quantity of one's arguments at expense of quality of said arguments.

You asked me my reasons for why I voted for Trump. My answer was a list of reasons not a list of arguments. They are all necessarily true because they are the real reasons why I voted of Trump. They are not arguments to try to persuade you of anything.

If you asked me why I bought a certain car and I gave you 5 reasons, would you say that is a Gish gallop? Of course not, those are my reasons for buying a certain car whether you think they are valid or not, they are not an argument as to why you should buy the car.


And I offered to go over them with you one at a time. If you believe that they are valid then you should have jumped at the chance.
Telling people what they should or should not do is a bad debate tactic as well.

Almost forgot. One trait of a Gish Gallop is that the galloper will almost always refuse to discuss the ideas one at a time.
Show me where I refused to discuss these one at a time?
 
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