Alcohol and Gambling are Sins???

[Breathe]

but are you telling me that 2 strangers being naked infront of one another and alone is not a sin and will not lead to adultery or fornication which are sins? my answer is yes.

Mine is no.


Nudist beaches.
Public showers.
Onsen and sento in Japan.
Naturists.
Digambar Jains.


These people aren't humping like mad simply by being around one another naked.


It's culture.



If I saw someone nude, would I automatically want sex with them? Hell no.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't know a single person who drinks, even occasionally, who hasn't been completely "hammered" at least once in their life.

Maybe not, but I know plenty of people who drink in moderation whose days of getting "hammered" are long behind them.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't know a single person who drinks, even occasionally, who hasn't been completely "hammered" at least once in their life.

Yes, you make a very good point. I believe you will admit that everyone makes mistakes. It is people who repeat their mistakes time and time again that I have a problem with.

I admire Islam's attempt at keeping one pure. The thing is, I don't believe we should force anyone to do anything, we should attempt to lead them by example.

If you can get a person to want to do better, that is much better than trying to force them to do anything IMHO.

 

[Gharib]

Mine is no.


Nudist beaches.
Public showers.
Onsen and sento in Japan.
Naturists.
Digambar Jains.


These people aren't humping like mad simply by being around one another naked.


It's culture.



If I saw someone nude, would I automatically want sex with them? Hell no.

Odion, i said 'alone' not in public.

what i have personally heard of and the behaviour of many people that i have seen, i do stand by my opinion of yes, 2 nude people will ultimately end up commiting adultery when alone although they don't know each other very long. don't tell me you don't know of the phrase 'one night stand' muslims don't use that. and that phrase just further backs up my statement, they are dressed and in public during the time of meeting.

 

[Gharib]

Yes, you make a very good point. I believe you will admit that everyone makes mistakes. It is people who repeat their mistakes time and time again that I have a problem with.

I admire Islam's attempt at keeping one pure. The thing is, I don't believe we should force anyone to do anything, we should attempt to lead them by example.

If you can get a person to want to do better, that is much better than trying to force them to do anything IMHO.

but islam doesn't force anyone to do anything. if you one day want to become a muslim, you will willingly accept that which islam has permitted and that which it has forbiden.

 

[Reverend Rick]

but islam doesn't force anyone to do anything. if you one day want to become a muslim, you will willingly accept that which islam has permitted and that which it has forbiden.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Gharib]

Thanks for posting this.

you are welcome.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Odion, i said 'alone' not in public.

what i have personally heard of and the behaviour of many people that i have seen, i do stand by my opinion of yes, 2 nude people will ultimately end up commiting adultery when alone although they don't know each other very long. don't tell me you don't know of the phrase 'one night stand' muslims don't use that. and that phrase just further backs up my statement, they are dressed and in public during the time of meeting.

What a strange point of view.
People have as much self control naked as they do dressed.
If you do not trust your self to be moral when naked .. you are not moral.

Of places I know well, Muslems are as active on the streets of Bradford as non muslems when it comes to sexual pick ups.

It is extremely unlikely you will meet a stranger naked and in private anywhere in the world... unless you have paid for the service.

 

[KnightOwl]

In my experience, sometimes people meet and sometimes they have sex. Unless we're talking about prostitution or rape, at some point the parties decide they're interested in each other sexually. For some people this is almost all that is required to follow through while others are more discerning and want to get to know someone first. Generally speaking, before they have sex, they get naked and they don't get naked unless they're pretty certain they want to have then have sex.

There are also many cases where people get naked in private without the intent of having sex and lo and behold, rarely does the doctor have sex with his ob/gyn patient. Rarely does the parent have sex with the child. It's all about what the circumstances are and the relationship is.

So whether or not the sex is moral, nakedness is just nakedness.

 

[Bismillah]

It's culture.

I would say the examples you posted are small aberrations of the social norm. That is, that most people who wear clothing view them as a sense of privacy.

Taking of clothing in a large nudist beach for example is more a byproduct of the feeling of anonymity within a crowd.

Revealing yourself between the intimacy of two people is very different in that one person alone is there to see you naked. This act is an act of trust and generally would be accompanied with feelings of attractions I believe.

 

[Bismillah]

Maybe not, but I know plenty of people who drink in moderation whose days of getting "hammered" are long behind them.

Is is not during the days of youth that so many people commit the stupidest of mistakes?

I believe you will admit that everyone makes mistakes. It is people who repeat their mistakes time and time again that I have a problem with.

Sure people who constantly regress into alcoholism are a major problem but so is the fact that humans are flawed creatures. It only takes one night of binging that can alter your regular rationale and lead you to do something incredibly foolish and dangerous.

I admire Islam's attempt at keeping one pure. The thing is, I don't believe we should force anyone to do anything, we should attempt to lead them by example.

Sure, don't force anybody. Show them that eliminating the potential for disaster is safer way to live your life.

Also cheaper

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is is not during the days of youth that so many people commit the stupidest of mistakes?

Maybe... though I'm not sure how that translates to an argument against all drinking. If your problem is with young people drinking, why not argue against that specifically?

Speaking for myself, I think that the fact I grew up with virtually no alcohol around me affected how I approached it when it suddenly was available to me. By the time alcohol was no big deal for me, I drank responsibly. It was only when alcohol was something new and exciting that I'd drink to excess. If it had been instilled in me from an early age that alcohol was no big deal, maybe I would've been able to skip over that stage when it was new and exciting.

 

[KnightOwl]

Maybe... though I'm not sure how that translates to an argument against all drinking. If your problem is with young people drinking, why not argue against that specifically?

Speaking for myself, I think that the fact I grew up with virtually no alcohol around me affected how I approached it when it suddenly was available to me. By the time alcohol was no big deal for me, I drank responsibly. It was only when alcohol was something new and exciting that I'd drink to excess. If it had been instilled in me from an early age that alcohol was no big deal, maybe I would've been able to skip over that stage when it was new and exciting.

+1 ... I have a friend from the UK who had been drinking at home long before he came to the U.S. and he thought of it as no big deal. He's never had any issues with binge drinking or the like.

 

[outhouse]

Not according to my understanding because I don't believe in sin. But I do understand that things like alcohol and gambling are bad for you and can lead to negative consequences. Hence why my religion preaches against getting involved with them.

I find this good practice

like anything in life moderation is key

 

[eman resu]

i cant speak on behalf of other religions but from an islamic view point alcohol and gambling are prohibited because they are only associated with negative consequences:
- alcohol causes people to lose their inhibition
- this causes them to say/do stupid things and may cause them to drink more than
they initially intended to.
- with gambling, you either lose your hard earned money or you unjustly earn more
money without having to work hard for it.
- on top of that, both of these are extremely addicting which just adds to the effect

 

[KnightOwl]

i cant speak on behalf of other religions but from an islamic view point alcohol and gambling are prohibited because they are only associated with negative consequences:
- alcohol causes people to lose their inhibition
- this causes them to say/do stupid things and may cause them to drink more than
they initially intended to.
- with gambling, you either lose your hard earned money or you unjustly earn more
money without having to work hard for it.
- on top of that, both of these are extremely addicting which just adds to the effect

Alcohol does help people lose their inhibitions. If their nature is to act a fool or be violent, then I suppose that's not a good thing. I've witnessed both in spades, trust me. For others who are basically good natured there are times when it serves to help one relax and enjoy themselves a bit more. Alcohol is in fact extremely addictive... for some people.

Gambling does generally cause you to lose your hard earned money and once in a while, you win and get more. That's the point. It's entertainment as surely as going to the movies is entertainment. You can't tell me that $9 is a fair price for a bucket of popcorn but we understand this is part of how they pay for the cost of entertaining us. If you're feeling pain every time you spend $20-40 at the movies but still do it or you spend so much gambling that it is no longer fun, but you still do it, then you should seek professional help just like you should if you're suffering from alcoholism or any other destructive addiction.

I actually think alcoholism is very often treated in ways that doesn't do a lot of good but I'm not a specialist. I'd love to see a program that actually has a good success rate. But that's another topic.

I'm glad I don't suffer from the addictions listed above (posting to online forums is a much bigger problem for me ) I don't think it makes sense to prohibit actions with a blanket when the problem associated varies from one individual to another. Would it make sense to prohibit online forums for everyone because a lot of people spend too much time on them?

Some people are addicted to clothes shopping. Maybe we should prohibit that too? Some people have OCD and compulsively wash their hands. Perhaps that should be prohibited too?