All loving or morally reprehensible?

[1137]

I was talking with a good pastor friend of mine about God, heaven, sin, that type of thing. We were actually talking about the idea that Christians need to spread the word, I asked why he cared about salvation of others if he's all set. He responded by saying that God wants everyone saved, since he is all loving and such. I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it. He gave some banal mini-speech on sin, after which I restated that if God was all loving we'd be saved, yet the actual case seems to be God needs to get off on our own self loathing, groveling for forgiveness. For the first time in our friendship I saw that look of doubt being fought away, and I couldn't help but smile.

So what's your opinion? Is this Christian god-concept an all loving, perfect father figure or a sadistic, morally reprehensible creepy uncle?

 

[Me Myself]

Torturing anyone for eternity or allowing hir to suffer eternally when you can do something about it without even a sweat is an obvious sign of not loving such person.

 

[arthra]

I was talking with a good pastor friend of mine about God, heaven, sin, that type of thing. We were actually talking about the idea that Christians need to spread the word, I asked why he cared about salvation of others if he's all set. He responded by saying that God wants everyone saved, since he is all loving and such. I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it. He gave some banal mini-speech on sin, after which I restated that if God was all loving we'd be saved, yet the actual case seems to be God needs to get off on our own self loathing, groveling for forgiveness. For the first time in our friendship I saw that look of doubt being fought away, and I couldn't help but smile.

So what's your opinion? Is this Christian god-concept an all loving, perfect father figure or a sadistic, morally reprehensible creepy uncle?

I think when you wrote above:

"I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it."

Is most certainly in God's prerogative.. We could all be living in a perfect world, i.e., heaven? without any effort what so ever on our part.

But to me it seems more that we would then loose our freedom and responsibility if that were the case.

God could "make us" all love Him but it would then not be love.. Love means I have the highest regard for you and will be willing to go the extra mile for you and provide whatever I have for you because I choose to love you. Love isn't a button we can simply push on an automaton to activate...

So I think we sometimes associate magic of some kind with the Almighty... when God expects us to have some of the joy of choosing to grow and develope our spiritual nature in the face of adversity and trial.

 

[Me Myself]

I think when you wrote above:

"I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it."

Is most certainly in God's prerogative.. We could all be living in a perfect world, i.e., heaven? without any effort what so ever on our part.

But to me it seems more that we would then loose our freedom and responsibility if that were the case.

God could "make us" all love Him but it would then not be love.. Love means I have the highest regard for you and will be willing to go the extra mile for you and provide whatever I have for you because I choose to love you. Love isn't a button we can simply push on an automaton to activate...

So I think we sometimes associate magic of some kind with the Almighty... when God expects us to have some of the joy of choosing to grow and develope our spiritual nature in the face of adversity and trial.

If God cannot make us love him then he is not omnipotent.

If you say it is not loved when he "amkes us do it" then he cannot make us love him so he is not omnipotent..

 

[Pegg]

I was talking with a good pastor friend of mine about God, heaven, sin, that type of thing. We were actually talking about the idea that Christians need to spread the word, I asked why he cared about salvation of others if he's all set. He responded by saying that God wants everyone saved, since he is all loving and such. I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it. He gave some banal mini-speech on sin, after which I restated that if God was all loving we'd be saved, yet the actual case seems to be God needs to get off on our own self loathing, groveling for forgiveness. For the first time in our friendship I saw that look of doubt being fought away, and I couldn't help but smile.

So what's your opinion? Is this Christian god-concept an all loving, perfect father figure or a sadistic, morally reprehensible creepy uncle?

God gives people the choice. He is telling them what is required of them for salvation. If they dont want it, he doesnt force them.

besides, he wants a world where justice, peace and love govern the life of every individual....not everyone wants to pursue such qualities. Should God save people who wish to cause trouble and strife?

 

[Me Myself]

Its not a real choice when people dont believe it.

If I told you you could pm me and I would give you the recipe to avoid something horrible happening to you or peoplle you love and this happened to be true ( which is of course not) i did not give you any choice iany practical sense if you didnt believe me.

 

[Pegg]

Its not a real choice when people dont believe it.

If I told you you could pm me and I would give you the recipe to avoid something horrible happening to you or peoplle you love and this happened to be true ( which is of course not) i did not give you any choice iany practical sense if you didnt believe me.

It calls for the quality of faith.

God asks us to put our faith in him... if we do, we wont be disappointed.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Is this Christian god-concept an all loving, perfect father figure or a sadistic, morally reprehensible creepy uncle?

Why would a loving creator give man such a capacity for evil? Why would a loving creator set in motion an existence with so much suffering and cruelty?

It doesn't make much sense.

 

[ChristineES]

If God cannot make us love him then he is not omnipotent.

If you say it is not loved when he "makes us do it" then he cannot make us love him so he is not omnipotent..

You want God to force everyone to love him? Have you ever tried to make someone love you? I don't think I have.

 

[1137]

This is interesting, so many people mentioned is loving God as if it invalidate the point.

I think when you wrote above:

"I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it."

Is most certainly in God's prerogative.. We could all be living in a perfect world, i.e., heaven? without any effort what so ever on our part.

But to me it seems more that we would then loose our freedom and responsibility if that were the case.

God could "make us" all love Him but it would then not be love.. Love means I have the highest regard for you and will be willing to go the extra mile for you and provide whatever I have for you because I choose to love you. Love isn't a button we can simply push on an automaton to activate...

So I think we sometimes associate magic of some kind with the Almighty... when God expects us to have some of the joy of choosing to grow and develope our spiritual nature in the face of adversity and trial.

So you support god as morally reprehensible. It is not About love for us but rather love for him. That is not the sign of a good entity, rather a petty one.

God gives people the choice. He is telling them what is required of them for salvation. If they dont want it, he doesnt force them.

besides, he wants a world where justice, peace and love govern the life of every individual....not everyone wants to pursue such qualities. Should God save people who wish to cause trouble and strife?

He can allow people choice And still forgive them, he can create a world with justice and such, he could have made an unbreakable world to start! Instead, God was all alone and created a world to force us to love him.

You want God to force everyone to love him? Have you ever tried to make someone love you? I don't think I have.

See above.

 

[Jainarayan]

So what's your opinion?

I think the concept is illogical.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think the concept is illogical.

Same. Christian theology is a muddled mess. The glaring problems start with their very concept of deity that's supposed to be all-knowing, all-perfect, all-loving, etc. but messed up on creating the universe and expects humans to take the blame for it. That's not even getting into the problems with the "creator deity" who exists outside of the universe and created it from nothing, either.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You want God to force everyone to love him? Have you ever tried to make someone love you? I don't think I have.

However, you're not omnipotent.

 

[Hawkins]

A shepherd will only love his sheep but not the wolves. A father only loves his sons and daughters but not necessarily those who try to harm his children.

The question is rather are you a sheep, or do you call God father. If you call God your father, perhaps He's not your father.

Christians need to spread the message of the gospel such that more will be able to hear to "good news" of a new covenant and to have a choice to be under the protection of such a covenant.

 

[Me Myself]

You want God to force everyone to love him? Have you ever tried to make someone love you? I don't think I have.

God is all there is. I dont believe in free will.

He made every agent, so he created every will. He decided some will not will to love him until they do, in whichever life that is.

 

[George-ananda]

So what's your opinion? Is this Christian god-concept an all loving, perfect father figure or a sadistic, morally reprehensible creepy uncle?

I think the 'fundamentalist' view is wrought with problems when placed under modern logical analysis. Fortunately, I see the 'fundamentalist' lot being a marginalized poorly thought of aspect in modern thinking.

I think the attempt above to call fundamentalist views 'the Christian god-concept' is not fair at all to the legions of well-meaning and thinking Christians.

 

[InChrist]

I was talking with a good pastor friend of mine about God, heaven, sin, that type of thing. We were actually talking about the idea that Christians need to spread the word, I asked why he cared about salvation of others if he's all set. He responded by saying that God wants everyone saved, since he is all loving and such. I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it. He gave some banal mini-speech on sin, after which I restated that if God was all loving we'd be saved, yet the actual case seems to be God needs to get off on our own self loathing, groveling for forgiveness. For the first time in our friendship I saw that look of doubt being fought away, and I couldn't help but smile.

So what's your opinion? Is this Christian god-concept an all loving, perfect father figure or a sadistic, morally reprehensible creepy uncle?

If someone wants their life centered in sin how should they be saved, and why? A God of love and justice will judge and destroy sin and evil, rather than let it continue to exist forever. My question is, why do so many deny their selfish thoughts and behavior and desire to hang on to their sin so tenaciously refusing the way of escape and freedom God offers to each person?

 

[Jainarayan]

Why would an omniscient and omnipotent God create beings with free will, give "laws", knowing these beings will do things contrary to these "laws", then establish punishments? Why set this test knowing some will fail? It sounds like entrapment and not very loving... bordering on, if not crossing into Sadisticstan.

 

[InChrist]

Why would an omniscient and omnipotent God create beings with free will, give "laws", knowing these beings will do things contrary to these "laws", then establish punishments? Why set this test knowing some will fail? It sounds like entrapment and not very loving... bordering on, if not crossing into Sadisticstan.

I believe the answer to this is because humans were created solely to exist in a relationship of love and trust with their Creator. Real love can only exist when given freely, hence the need for beings created with freewill. The inability to keep the laws apart from God's power (which occurs only in a relationship with Him) and the negative consequences reveal that apart from God we cannot survive...and we were not meant to. This is what I understand, yet I may fall short in explaining and expressing clearly.

 

[Jainarayan]

I think it's an analogy to humans giving birth and raising children, children rebelling against the parents' rules, and the need for punishment for breaking those rules. However there is one major twist... human parents can't know beforehand how their children will turn out. Parents hope their children will turn out OK. But God knows from before the universe was created who will disobey him and whom he will have to condemn to eternal punishment (which is another over-the-top concept).