All loving or morally reprehensible?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Then that is your freedom.

You obviously don't understand what freedom is.

 

[Pegg]

Not according to your god. I am headed for hell, according to "his" rules.

hell is the grave according to the language the bible was written in.

We are all bound for the grave, we are already dying, we are getting sick and old and diseased.... and besides that we have to suffer at the hands of our fellow man. This is not living, its surviving.

God wants to give us something far better then what we've already got.

 

[Me Myself]

Only if you happen to believe in the right religion, by pure happenstance.

 

[Pegg]

I help myself, I'm pretty sure that Christianity believes helping yourself is impossible.

Christianity is about freeing us from the inevitable death which we will all eventually face.

Everlasting life is what we want...even scientists are looking for ways to make us live longer.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

hell is the grave according to the language the bible was written in.

We are all bound for the grave, we are already dying, we are getting sick and old and diseased.... and besides that we have to suffer at the hands of our fellow man. This is not living, its surviving.

That's what the Watchtower teaches. That's a small minority belief among Christians. Most Christians believe in an eternal soul and hell.

However, your view of your god's paradigm isn't much better.

God wants to give us something far better then what we've already got.

Way after I'm dead. That's not a bet I'm willing to make. Besides, I may not agree that what "he" wants to give is actually better than anything else.

 

[McBell]

Well, maybe that's because the scriptures give numerous examples of the importance of speaking with words.

I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. John 17:20

Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.” Acts 5:20

Therefore those who were scattered went everywhere preaching the word. Acts 8:4

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. Acts 10:44

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

I think it is a priority for the life of a Christian to demonstrate the love and truth of Christ in their daily behavior and interactions, but tell me how is one to discuss spiritual or biblical ideas on an internet forum without using words?

Ah, so as long you talk the talk you need not walk the walk?

Seems there are loads of Christians who agree.

 

[adi2d]

In the sense that you mention above, I would have to agree with you. God did decide to bring you and I and everyone into existence and has set the rules. Our freedom is in choosing whether to love our Creator and trust His good intentions toward us.

Are you saying that you would have preferred not to have existed at all?

God being omni would know before birth who would freely love him. Why not just have those souls receive the breath of life. Seems like that would fill heaven without all the failures

 

[Pegg]

That's what the Watchtower teaches. That's a small minority belief among Christians. Most Christians believe in an eternal soul and hell.

actually it what the 'bible' teaches

Ezekiel 18:4 "...The soul that is sinning—it itself will die."

Souls die and return to 'dust'...not to the spirit world
Genesis 3:19"...For dust you are and to dust you will return.

 

[arthra]

If you read scriptures and the Holy Books there's always choice involved... There's a point where you choose to accept and follow a principle or you choose some other way.

The love part is very essential I think because it is like a bond between us..a caring and concern that we have for the other... God loved us and those who choose to return that love in some way.. love their Creator. Experiencing that love we have love for our fellows and care for them. They in turn can return that love.

One of the purposes of our short term in this life is the opportunity to develope our spiritual qualities...again..that's if we choose to do so.

So God isn't going to make it easy for you either... You can't grow or develope if you're in some kind of womb-world where all your needs are being being met and you never have to strive or seek to change injustices or try to right the poor choices others make or that you made.

So stop blaming God or a devil...for the way things are. Do what you can to improve things or make a difference in this life.

I don't think "death" is hell. Death can be a release from this world and an entry to the spiritual world...but looking back on your life as it's passing in front of you approaching maybe that point of no return you'll have these flash backs that will convey something to you... You weren't all that good and saintly...Maybe you fell down on your principles and have some guilty feelings about that. If you can't go back and change what you did...You have to ask someone to forgive you and rest in the mercy of God. Humility and selflessness are required.

 

[InChrist]

Ultimatums aren't really freedom. God already knows my choice anyways, he's free to help me out if he truly loves me.

I think He has done all that is possible to help you and He is continuing to do so each day.

I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved...John 10:19

 

[InChrist]

Ah, so as long you talk the talk you need not walk the walk?

Seems there are loads of Christians who agree.

Did you read what I wrote?

... "I think it is a priority for the life of a Christian to demonstrate the love and truth of Christ in their daily behavior and interactions"

That means it is important and necessary to walk the walk.

 

[InChrist]

You obviously don't understand what freedom is.

Or maybe you don't.

 

[InChrist]

Haven't you heard? He helps those who help themselves. I think that makes him more or less as useful as a bank that loans money only to people who don't need it.

That idea of God helping those who help themselves in not taught in the scriptures.

 

[1137]

Or maybe you don't.

If you give me your love I will leave you be. If not I will brutally torture every member of your family, all your friends, even some close aquaintences for hours before your eyes before torturing you as well.

On a scale of 1 - 10, how much choice is there REALLY?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you give me your love I will leave you be. If not I will brutally torture every member of your family, all your friends, even some close aquaintences for hours before your eyes before torturing you as well.

On a scale of 1 - 10, how much choice is there REALLY?

Or, if you're a JW: Annihilate you out of existence so you can't enjoy my 1950s-esque theocracy on earth.

 

[InChrist]

God being omni would know before birth who would freely love him. Why not just have those souls receive the breath of life. Seems like that would fill heaven without all the failures

Human life doesn't work that way. God did not create individuals in isolation. Everyone is part of extended families, communities, and nations. Can't just give the breath of life to certain souls who would believe and freely love God, if their parents or grandparents who wouldn't believe never existed.

 

[InChrist]

If you give me your love I will leave you be. If not I will brutally torture every member of your family, all your friends, even some close aquaintences for hours before your eyes before torturing you as well.

On a scale of 1 - 10, how much choice is there REALLY?

Really, we are not going to come to an agreement or understanding because, from my perspective anyway, your perception is completely misconstrued.

 

[s2a]

I was talking with a good pastor friend of mine about God, heaven, sin, that type of thing. We were actually talking about the idea that Christians need to spread the word, I asked why he cared about salvation of others if he's all set. He responded by saying that God wants everyone saved, since he is all loving and such. I came back saying; well no, if God wanted us all saved he could just do it. He gave some banal mini-speech on sin, after which I restated that if God was all loving we'd be saved, yet the actual case seems to be God needs to get off on our own self loathing, groveling for forgiveness. For the first time in our friendship I saw that look of doubt being fought away, and I couldn't help but smile.

So what's your opinion? Is this Christian god-concept an all loving, perfect father figure or a sadistic, morally reprehensible creepy uncle?

I would say HE is both.

 

[adi2d]

Human life doesn't work that way. God did not create individuals in isolation. Everyone is part of extended families, communities, and nations. Can't just give the breath of life to certain souls who would believe and freely love God, if their parents or grandparents who wouldn't believe never existed.

We agree that life doesn't work that way. If as the story goes God created us and this life is to prepare us for heaven then God(knowing us before we were born) would know who would get to heaven. Those people would be born. The rest wouldn't. All parents grandparents extended families etc would be born. Everyone would freely love God.

Would that not be a better world?

 

[McBell]

Human life doesn't work that way....

Whose fault is that?