All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren’t!

[Assad91]

There is always 2 sides of the story.
All who talk of Taliban, Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden, Rahimahullah, ever listioned to them. To why they do what they do, attacking coalition soldiers, or even why WTC.

Don't take it as if I am supporter. But people don't do things for no reason. I have a feeling some want revenge. You can't invade, kill and rape a people, and not expect revengge.

 

[darkendless]

Clearly you don't know anything about the illegal war that took place nor did you know that killing Muslims in the Middle-east and Africa took place before the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You make it seem as though muslims are the poor innocent victims of everything.

The mission in Iraq and Afghanistan was not to train and support, it was to destroy Iraq, its military and put Saddam Hussein in-front of a judge (what you didn't). As for Afghanistan it was to hunt down the one who were responsible for 9/11. The one who was responsible for 9/11 was taken in custody a long time ago who was imprisoned in Guantanamo after a confession. Off-course the government then later changed the mission into training police officers and help the local government.

Well we didn't go there to find Santa Claus did we?

It annoys me how these things are always the west vs. the muslims. Muslims in western countries are so quick to brandish all westerners together as a bunch of racist murderers. It's quite pathetic really.

So you don't know you guys have been doing this for the past 70 years? Killing innocent Muslims, why did Al-Qeada actually send those airplanes that way, do you think the reason was because they couldn't find jobs?

.... once again it's as if muslims are completely free of guilt.

Lets see if what you said is valid or not. America gives openly support to Saddam Hussein operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into the power it became included several billion dollars worth of economic aid, the sale of dual-use technology, non-U.S. origin weaponry, military intelligence, Special Operations training, and direct involvement in warfare against Iran.

Probably. They also supported Bin-Laden when in Saudi Arabia. These people change though. If my government started dropping chemical weapons on us civilians they'd probably do the same.

So who supported the Dictator Saddam Hussein? You guys not the innocent civilians who were getting oppressed by him because of the wealth and power you guys gave them. I can give many more examples from Gaddafi to Bassar and i can name much more examples from the ones of Africa. First you like the bad guys then you don't like them anymore and kill them and all these policies have killed and harmed Americans, Muslims who are all innocent.

People change. Come now, don't pretend to be dense.

The damage is already done in several countries such as Pakistan, Iran Afghanistan, Iraq and Somali. What propaganda and threats are you talking about? The ones that your government is making or the ones that Al-Qeada is showing to recruit more soldiers? Its the same for me.

Extreme islamic propaganda. Infidels will pay for their sins and all that nonsensical rhetoric.

It was not my "Whole" argument, clearly you are missing the steps here ill repeat myself again because i get the feeling you miss presented me here on purpose.

You turn everything into a case of "you attacked us first so take what you're given."

Revenge is for children.

Americans vote Extreme-Right-Wing-Republican party with violent and stupid foreign policy > Government supporters dictator A with much wealth and power > Dictator oppresses innocent Muslims with new wealth and power > Innocent Muslims get angry at Americans but do not attack > American government invades other Muslim country and kills many innocent Muslims > Innocent Muslims become more angry and blows up country that supported oppression in there country and killed there brothers and sisters > Americans vote again Extreme-Right-Wing-Republican party with violent and stupid foreign policy > New government supporters dictator B and plans to get rid of dictator A > Government sends innocent Americans to die in a illegal war that is based on lies > Military kills over 500,000 innocent Muslims.

There's some propaganda right there

Let's face it the west could completely ignore the muslim world and worldwide muslims would find reasons to commit acts of terrorism.

Are those stupid policies or not? They are all linked to each.

I don't consider America to make sound political decisions.

"Collateral damage":sarcastic

and yet you said:

That's not a justification for it. Simple fact, we should not be there causing any damage at all. Collateral damage is part of a war.

Random acts of terror against civilians is not collateral damage, its terrorism.

 

[darkendless]

There is always 2 sides of the story.
All who talk of Taliban, Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden, Rahimahullah, ever listioned to them. To why they do what they do, attacking coalition soldiers, or even why WTC.

Don't take it as if I am supporter. But people don't do things for no reason. I have a feeling some want revenge. You can't invade, kill and rape a people, and not expect revengge.

It's pretty obvious, they don't want us there "oppressing them."

I agree, lets see if your brothers from more fortunate parts of the arab world want to help out?

 

[F0uad]

You make it seem as though muslims are the poor innocent victims of everything.

Serious? How is this a reply?

Well we didn't go there to find Santa Claus did we?

Yeah instead of talking to the Taliban that you guys have supported for the past years and try to convince them to give Bin-Laden you guys started attacking the Taliban and putting inhuman sanctions on them. Again a failure of America policy.

It annoys me how these things are always the west vs. the muslims. Muslims in western countries are so quick to brandish all westerners together as a bunch of racist murderers. It's quite pathetic really.

If you can't stand it don't reply, and you are also guilty of doing so.

.... once again it's as if muslims are completely free of guilt.

Please tell me how it was the Muslims fault that the West colonized, stole resources, attacked innocent Muslims on a daily basis and supported dictators?

Probably. They also supported Bin-Laden when in Saudi Arabia. These people change though. If my government started dropping chemical weapons on us civilians they'd probably do the same.

So you accept the fact that it was because of America's foreign policy?

People change. Come now, don't pretend to be dense.

People change? What about people are you talking? I am talking about the American government, they are still in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somali, Yemen, Saudi and many more countries. Do you even know how many Innocent Muslims die monthly because of the Drone (Terrorism) that America is waging.

Extreme islamic propaganda. Infidels will pay for their sins and all that nonsensical rhetoric.

What are those sins, attacking there brothers and sisters do you really think a Afghan who never heard about America or knows it people who lives in a cave will suddenly attack America? No! Its only if the American government attacks hes family, fellow Muslims or invades hes country.

You turn everything into a case of "you attacked us first so take what you're given."

Revenge is for children.

Revenge is not for children when your own innocent children are killed in the process of a illegal war and the invading force has supported a dictator with money who tortured your wife for decades.

There's some propaganda right there

Please tell me how that is propaganda... I will be waiting.

Let's face it the west could completely ignore the muslim world and worldwide muslims would find reasons to commit acts of terrorism.

Now they do yes but if they had not been killing, invading and torturing for the past 40 years there would be no reason. Do you even listen to the reasons why these (Extremists) do so? What about America, if there were no Muslims terrorists America would still invade Muslim land.. for example Iran, Iraq and many others.

I don't consider America to make sound political decisions.

I consider them to be terrorist the same way i view Al-Qeada or even worse, i think the Taliban is even better then the American government they at-least kept the violence in there own border and don't invade 50 countries in the past 40 years killing over 10 million people in those 40 years, start illegal wars, torture people in prisons and i can go on and on..

That's not a justification for it. Simple fact, we should not be there causing any damage at all. Collateral damage is part of a war.

If that is the case i can say that 9-11 was also Collateral damage, dropping over 150 tons of explosive in one crowded city like Baghdad is not 'Collateral damage' Its just mass-murder.

Random acts of terror against civilians is not collateral damage, its terrorism.

Then your government and military are terrorists.

O and next time respond to the points i brought for.

 

[faithglendale]

The Islamic radicals have only one thing in common with the millions of peace loving Muslims around the world, and that is the Qur'an. I have read the Qur'an cover to cover a few times, and it does promote the killing of Christians and Jews. Fortunately, the majority of Muslims have the love of the God of their fathers, {the God of Abraham} running through their veins and wish to harm no one.

The answer to 9/11 is for God fearing Muslims to read all of God's Word, which includes everything contained in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, instead of only Allah's Reminder. After all, Allah did claim ownership of the Book given to Christians and Jews. Promising also that no one could alter, change or forge that which was divinely inspired. As a true believer, I would want to read what it was a reminder of.

 

[Meow Mix]

What about Illegally invading a country let me rephrase invading over 50 countries in the past 40 years and killing over 10 millions in those 40 years?

Unconscionable, of course -- do you think I'm kidding when I say my country's leadership and policies disgust me?

 

[Meow Mix]

The Islamic radicals have only one thing in common with the millions of peace loving Muslims around the world, and that is the Qur'an. I have read the Qur'an cover to cover a few times, and it does promote the killing of Christians and Jews. Fortunately, the majority of Muslims have the love of the God of their fathers, {the God of Abraham} running through their veins and wish to harm no one.

The answer to 9/11 is for God fearing Muslims to read all of God's Word, which includes everything contained in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, instead of only Allah's Reminder. After all, Allah did claim ownership of the Book given to Christians and Jews. Promising also that no one could alter, change or forge that which was divinely inspired. As a true believer, I would want to read what it was a reminder of.

Where in the Quran does it promote killing Christians and Jews? Sorry, while I find some aspects of the Quran disgusting myself, I think it takes mental gymnastics to assert that it outright declares people should be killed (Christian, Jew, non-Muslim or otherwise) simply for being non-Muslim.

I have seen too many justifications by Muslims demonstrating that the passages about "fighting them" refers specifically to contemporary enemies of the state who were fighting the state first to buy this, unless you can provide some evidence for that assertion I haven't seen before.

I will NOT condone the Quran but I won't abide smears with a broad brush against it either.

Also, it surprises me that you're so willing to pass over all the equally abhorrent passages from the Bible -- which contains just as much misogyny and orders to murder people over taboo offenses.

 

[darkendless]

Serious? How is this a reply?

My annoyance is that experience on this forums muslims band together to criticise the west on issues like this. It is you that makes it an us versus them situation.

Muslims live in my country and America. In the news and at university when i was there, there were a lot of protests about how the muslim world was angry. These people were effectively spreading hateful propaganda against the country that they study in and excluding themselves from being "Australians" like everyone else regardless of religion or skin colour.

Thats what I hate most. I think it's a cultural integration thing. Very few muslims I know consider themselves Australian even though they've spent 90% of their lives here. I don't understand it.

Yeah instead of talking to the Taliban that you guys have supported for the past years and try to convince them to give Bin-Laden you guys started attacking the Taliban and putting inhuman sanctions on them. Again a failure of America policy.

Round table policies don't work. Also, where was Bin Laden and Al-Quaeda. They have mouths and voices. Don't put everything on the west. If the Islamic terrorists were interested in talking they would have. They didn't, so stop this nonsensical attempt to absolve terrorists of blame and put it all on the west.

If you can't stand it don't reply, and you are also guilty of doing so.

I can stand it, it is just not improving my opinion of muslims at all.

Please tell me how it was the Muslims fault that the West colonized, stole resources, attacked innocent Muslims on a daily basis and supported dictators?

If your rich brothers helped out we wouldn't need to be there and our soldiers wouldn't die for nothing.

Where are your rich arab neighbours and why aren't they helping?

How have we colonized. If we wanted to do that we'd settle in Iraq and Afghanistan. We didn't and we won't. That's not colonising

So you accept the fact that it was because of America's foreign policy?

Yes. America are insane and idiotic. It pains me that my country followed them to a hollow war thousands of kilometres away so that our soldiers can fight for nothing.

Once again though, where are your muslim brothers and their armies to help out?

I find it so ironic that muslims world wide cry foul at the west while their "brothers" do nothing to help.

People change? What about people are you talking? I am talking about the American government, they are still in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somali, Yemen, Saudi and many more countries. Do you even know how many Innocent Muslims die monthly because of the Drone (Terrorism) that America is waging.

All 6 quoted countries are unstable and do not stop racist/extremist radicals who love to blow themselves up and kill as many civilians as possible.

Id Al-Quaeda didn't go around murdering people what need would anyone have to do anything about them?

What are those sins, attacking there brothers and sisters do you really think a Afghan who never heard about America or knows it people who lives in a cave will suddenly attack America? No! Its only if the American government attacks hes family, fellow Muslims or invades hes country.

Oh so it's all revenge? But the punishment doesn't fit the crime. In many instances even the USA don't attack civilians on purpose. However, how many terror attacks on innocents have your brothers carried out?

If we leave every muslim country tomorrow will the attacks stop?

Revenge is not for children when your own innocent children are killed in the process of a illegal war and the invading force has supported a dictator with money who tortured your wife for decades.

Rhetoric is strong in you.

Please tell me how that is propaganda... I will be waiting.

Just look at what you're writing. I could thread search and find almost identical words in every fundamentalist on this forum.

Now they do yes but if they had not been killing, invading and torturing for the past 40 years there would be no reason. Do you even listen to the reasons why these (Extremists) do so? What about America, if there were no Muslims terrorists America would still invade Muslim land.. for example Iran, Iraq and many others.

I do, most of them are religious racists who think that killing innocent civilians will please their god. Religion of peace though right?

I watched a programme about why Australia followed the USA to Iraq. What bothers me was that they said "America told us they had WMD's." By that we should have left Iraq as soon as none were found. In saying that our missions are exclusively peace keeping now. Many stories pop up about Al-Quaeda killing civilians for no known reason. So much love for their brothers and sisters :yes:

In saying that, I can't wait for our troops to leave the middle east and never return. We should never have gone there.

I consider them to be terrorist the same way i view Al-Qeada or even worse, i think the Taliban is even better then the American government they at-least kept the violence in there own border and don't invade 50 countries in the past 40 years killing over 10 million people in those 40 years, start illegal wars, torture people in prisons and i can go on and on..

You're muslim of course you're going to say that.

But hey lets ignore mass civilian targeting, public executions, torture, killing their own civilians .... the list goes on. America will always be worse than your own "brothers."

If that is the case i can say that 9-11 was also Collateral damage, dropping over 150 tons of explosive in one crowded city like Baghdad is not 'Collateral damage' Its just mass-murder.

That is just wrong. The USA dropped bombs on military targets, they shot back. What were the WTC people meant to do? Throw coins at Al-Quaeda?

Come now be serious. Terrorist attacks on exclusively civilians to cause as much damage and destruction as possible is terrorism.

The USA could have levelled the entire country if they wanted to so stop making ridiculous claims

Then your government and military are terrorists.

My government? You really think what America and Australia do in these countries is exactly the same don't you? Perhaps educate yourself before making such idiotic statements?

O and next time respond to the points i brought for.

I did. Perhaps having asked 3 times now where Arab help is for these countries you could respond?

 

[LemonGrenade]

The mission in Iraq and Afghanistan was not to train and support, it was to destroy Iraq, its military and put Saddam Hussein in-front of a judge (what you didn't). As for Afghanistan it was to hunt down the one who were responsible for 9/11. The one who was responsible for 9/11 was taken in custody a long time ago who was imprisoned in Guantanamo after a confession. Off-course the government then later changed the mission into training police officers and help the local government.

I think it was more about funding the M.I complex; plundering the target countries' natural resources; laying the foundations for new societies in those two countries based on neoliberal ideals, thereby opening them up for exploitation by Western corporate interests; and ultimately destabilising the region.

 

[Aquitaine]

I think it was more about funding the M.I complex; plundering the target countries' natural resources; laying the foundations for new societies in those two countries based on neoliberal ideals, thereby opening them up for exploitation by Western corporate interests; and ultimately destabilising the region.

*Global corporate interests.

 

[F0uad]

My annoyance is that experience on this forums muslims band together to criticise the west on issues like this. It is you that makes it an us versus them situation.

Well i didn't want to go that way but you also used that kind of language yourself.

Muslims live in my country and America. In the news and at university when i was there, there were a lot of protests about how the muslim world was angry. These people were effectively spreading hateful propaganda against the country that they study in and excluding themselves from being "Australians" like everyone else regardless of religion or skin colour.

If i am correct there are many Pakistanis in Australian right? Maybe they were angry because there country is being bombed by drones and dictated by America? I don't know why they are angry you should ask them and maybe have a conversation with them?

Thats what I hate most. I think it's a cultural integration thing. Very few muslims I know consider themselves Australian even though they've spent 90% of their lives here. I don't understand it.

I have spend like 90% of my live in Holland but i don't consider myself to be dutch because i have a different view off live and i will always be a Moroccan in my blood. Even the dutch people wouldn't consider me Dutch people have a hard time accepting other cultures, colors or religions. You don't expect Japanese, Chinese or Indian people to become Australians do you?

Round table policies don't work. Also, where was Bin Laden and Al-Quaeda. They have mouths and voices. Don't put everything on the west. If the Islamic terrorists were interested in talking they would have. They didn't, so stop this nonsensical attempt to absolve terrorists of blame and put it all on the west.

I don't want to be rude but clearly you don't know anything about history. The Americans and the ruling group of Afghanistan "The Taliban'' did have conversations with each other to hand out Bin-Laden to them under the condition that he trail would take place in Afghanistan and not in a military court of America (this was before 9/11). America refused, sanctioned Afghanistan (a 3rd world country that lead to poverty and death) and then labeled the Taliban terrorists after Al-Qeada blew up the twin-towers.

If your rich brothers helped out we wouldn't need to be there and our soldiers wouldn't die for nothing.

Help out with what, putting those rich dictators in power? You still don't get it do you?

Where are your rich arab neighbours and why aren't they helping?

They don't have power, which country could have invaded Iraq? You forgot that America gave Saddam Hussein everything its America who empowered Saddam to do the things he did.

How have we colonized. If we wanted to do that we'd settle in Iraq and Afghanistan. We didn't and we won't. That's not colonising

Sure the West has never colonized, invaded or used drones before the war in Iraq right? Is this your argument serious? Maybe you forgot that notion that you the government of America empowered Saddam (not sure how many times i have to repeat this).

Yes. America are insane and idiotic. It pains me that my country followed them to a hollow war thousands of kilometres away so that our soldiers can fight for nothing.

So why can't i call them Stupid and insane?

Once again though, where are your muslim brothers and their armies to help out?

I find it so ironic that muslims world wide cry foul at the west while their "brothers" do nothing to help.

Who are these Rich Brothers you keep talking about? Helping who and what? You mean the evil dictators that America paid?

All 6 quoted countries are unstable and do not stop racist/extremist radicals who love to blow themselves up and kill as many civilians as possible.

Why are they radical, were they radical before America went in or after?
Just answer this question with honesty.

Id Al-Quaeda didn't go around murdering people what need would anyone have to do anything about them?

The America government went to Saudi, Yemen, Pakistan and other countries killing innocent Muslims prior to 9-11 that ****** of angry people that already lived in dry conditions what do you expect the response would be? Flowers?

 

[F0uad]

Oh so it's all revenge? But the punishment doesn't fit the crime. In many instances even the USA don't attack civilians on purpose. However, how many terror attacks on innocents have your brothers carried out?

I though you said that you can handle it why the emotional reactions? I don't justify there actions nor do i justify American's action clearly your the one who thinks America are the hero's and that the Muslims are the bad guys.
Are you kidding me the Army is not aiming civilians on purpose!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? How can you have killed over a million innocent civilians in the past decade when you don't aim for civilians?

If we leave every muslim country tomorrow will the attacks stop?

Not directly because America's take in the Middle-east and Africa has been over 70 years if not more. If you stop supporting dictators, steal resources, close the military basis in the countries, stop exploiting and keep out of the political affairs then i am pretty sure the attacks will drop by huge percentages and eventually become zero.

Rhetoric is strong in you.

I combat Rhetoric with Rhetoric.

Just look at what you're writing. I could thread search and find almost identical words in every fundamentalist on this forum.

What the hell? Please show me what i have said is false and how it is "Extreme'' it is true! If you can't handle truth i advice you to stop debating.

I do, most of them are religious racists who think that killing innocent civilians will please their god. Religion of peace though right?

I watched a programme about why Australia followed the USA to Iraq. What bothers me was that they said "America told us they had WMD's." By that we should have left Iraq as soon as none were found. In saying that our missions are exclusively peace keeping now. Many stories pop up about Al-Quaeda killing civilians for no known reason. So much love for their brothers and sisters :yes:

In saying that, I can't wait for our troops to leave the middle east and never return. We should never have gone there.

The only thing you have me agreeing with is your last sentence all the other garbage shows your ignorance regarding the subject.

You're muslim of course you're going to say that.

O wow... I think i will end it here.

But hey lets ignore mass civilian targeting, public executions, torture, killing their own civilians .... the list goes on. America will always be worse than your own "brothers."

O lets see who did those things, the guys you put to power..

That is just wrong. The USA dropped bombs on military targets, they shot back. What were the WTC people meant to do? Throw coins at Al-Quaeda?

Hahaha such BS, 150 Tons in a crowded city? How is that military targets, do you consider hospitals and homes military targets? Go educate yourself about what really happened during the war

Come now be serious. Terrorist attacks on exclusively civilians to cause as much damage and destruction as possible is terrorism.

The USA could have levelled the entire country if they wanted to so stop making ridiculous claims

They almost did you clearly know jack about this.. Lets compare the innocent casualities.

Al-Qeada 3000 innocent Americans Twin-Towers..
America army 300,000 ore more Innocent Iraqi's..

O wait Al-Qeada was never in Iraq but Afghanistan.. Hmmm
So what had Iraq to do with terrorism?

My government? You really think what America and Australia do in these countries is exactly the same don't you? Perhaps educate yourself before making such idiotic statements?

You called terrorists my brothers so i label all western countries as the same.

I did. Perhaps having asked 3 times now where Arab help is for these countries you could respond?

Which country needed help?

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AMERICA PUT THOSE ARAB AND NON ARAB DICTATORS IN POWER EVEN THE ONES THAT COULD HAVE HELPED?

 

[WyattDerp]

I combat Rhetoric with Rhetoric.

That's not how it works. You can dismantle rhetoric with intellectual honesty and solid arguments, not by piling on MORE sophistry.

If someone says the moon is made of cheese, in your mind it's perfectly reasonable to respond with "that's wrong, because it's actually made out of two parts sugar and one part dust", since they started it? Heh. You may call that "combat", but, uhhh... that's just a child's dream.

 

[darkendless]

Well i didn't want to go that way but you also used that kind of language yourself.

It is what it is. It does become us versus them. However, I don't think you'll find many people in support of western troops in these countries. I don't think these countries want us there so why should we stay? People die with western troops there and that's not what we want.

If we left would lives improve though? Too hard to tell?

If i am correct there are many Pakistanis in Australian right? Maybe they were angry because there country is being bombed by drones and dictated by America? I don't know why they are angry you should ask them and maybe have a conversation with them?

I have, I studied with a few of them who are Pakistanis from Lahore. They are very moderate and think both sides are childish and pathetic (I tend to agree) but state that their brothers and sisters will always stand up for each other and defend each other no matter what.

Seems to be a case of no matter the situation they will side with other muslims before considering anything else.

I have spend like 90% of my live in Holland but i don't consider myself to be dutch because i have a different view off live and i will always be a Moroccan in my blood. Even the dutch people wouldn't consider me Dutch people have a hard time accepting other cultures, colors or religions. You don't expect Japanese, Chinese or Indian people to become Australians do you?

If they gain Australian citizenship they are Australian. I was born in New Zealand. I am now an Australian citizen and live, was educated and work in Australia. I consider myself an Australian but with New Zealand heritage.

I expect people who gain citizenship in another country to consider themselves a citizen of that country regardless of heritage. Embracing citizenship should involve embracing the culture of the nation in public. What you do in private (religion etc. doesn't and shouldn't ever matter)

I don't want to be rude but clearly you don't know anything about history. The Americans and the ruling group of Afghanistan "The Taliban'' did have conversations with each other to hand out Bin-Laden to them under the condition that he trail would take place in Afghanistan and not in a military court of America (this was before 9/11). America refused, sanctioned Afghanistan (a 3rd world country that lead to poverty and death) and then labeled the Taliban terrorists after Al-Qeada blew up the twin-towers.

I was aware of that but that was when the US was working with them towards a common goal. Remember they also collaborated with Bin Laden prior to that when the US was in Saudi Arabia. They gave him a lot of money I understand. My basic knowledge without going into detail was that he became annoyed when America refused to leave Saudi Arabia.

Help out with what, putting those rich dictators in power? You still don't get it do you?

No. I mean if the richer Arab nations helped stabilise the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan there would be no need for the west to. That's what i'm getting at.

They don't have power, which country could have invaded Iraq? You forgot that America gave Saddam Hussein everything its America who empowered Saddam to do the things he did.

Gave him chemical weapons to attack Kurbs and Scud missles to attack Kuwait? He crossed the line with these things much the way Iran and North Korea threaten to do.

Sure the West has never colonized, invaded or used drones before the war in Iraq right? Is this your argument serious? Maybe you forgot that notion that you the government of America empowered Saddam (not sure how many times i have to repeat this).

You said colonized. They invade and use drones regularly. I don't personally understand how people can be so against drones when a manned plane can do the same thing. What's the difference between bombing it with a plane and bombing it with a drone?

So why can't i call them Stupid and insane?

You can. But do it for the right reasons and not for the reasons we've all seen repeated on here 12346262457259826593875692345 times.

Who are these Rich Brothers you keep talking about? Helping who and what? You mean the evil dictators that America paid?

Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Can't they help the Afghans to improve their lives?

Why are they radical, were they radical before America went in or after?
Just answer this question with honesty.

Perhaps. That's their problem not ours. But with their riches from energy couldn't they help Afghanistan get back on its feet?

The America government went to Saudi, Yemen, Pakistan and other countries killing innocent Muslims prior to 9-11 that ****** of angry people that already lived in dry conditions what do you expect the response would be? Flowers?

Killing the soldiers that went there, not killing civilians at work. What does killing civilians do but make America more likely to invade, to bomb and to use drones?

 

[darkendless]

I though you said that you can handle it why the emotional reactions? I don't justify there actions nor do i justify American's action clearly your the one who thinks America are the hero's and that the Muslims are the bad guys.
Are you kidding me the Army is not aiming civilians on purpose!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? How can you have killed over a million innocent civilians in the past decade when you don't aim for civilians?

What on earth are you on about? I have said multiple times that I do not support America or the wars in the Arab world. I wish all westerners and westerrn countries left the arab world to deal with its own problems.

The war in Iraq was a joke and many innocent people died for nothing. Afghanistan has been an attempt to improve the standard of living which has failed. Other options should be explored.

Not directly because America's take in the Middle-east and Africa has been over 70 years if not more. If you stop supporting dictators, steal resources, close the military basis in the countries, stop exploiting and keep out of the political affairs then i am pretty sure the attacks will drop by huge percentages and eventually become zero.

I wish America would stop then. However, do these countries not expect drones when terrorist attacks on westerners have never been more frequent. If us westerns leave you alone completely will muslim extremists go back to blowing up buses in Israel?

I combat Rhetoric with Rhetoric.

What rhetoric? I don't actually disagree with you much only on the way you present it.

What the hell? Please show me what i have said is false and how it is "Extreme'' it is true! If you can't handle truth i advice you to stop debating.

- Calling Americans terrorists
- Justifying the killing of civilians as revenge for the death of muslims in the arab world
- Holding all westerners responsible for the actions of the USA

The only thing you have me agreeing with is your last sentence all the other garbage shows your ignorance regarding the subject.

What? I was reciting the general points of a panel involving Bredan Nelson who was defence minister when Australia joined the USA and Britian in Iraq. Almost his exact words were "we made a decision because we believed the US had on good authority that Sadaam had WMD's." I'm just reciting it as accurately as I can.

I don't agree with it and I think it's rubbish but it is what it is.

O wow... I think i will end it here.

As discussed experience suggests that muslim members will support their brothers unconditionally. Disagree all you like but it is just my observation. No offence was intended. I admit my wording and lack of justification was poor.

O lets see who did those things, the guys you put to power..

So everything is the fault of Western powers? Once again you group all westerners together with America. Can you tell the difference between the accent of a New Zealander and an Australian? New Zealand refused to join the war effort and I applaud them for it. Do they get negatively painted with your broad brush also?

Perhaps exercise distinction when describing which westerners you are referring to.

Hahaha such BS, 150 Tons in a crowded city? How is that military targets, do you consider hospitals and homes military targets? Go educate yourself about what really happened during the war

We're going nowhere here. I'm well educated. Your conspiracy seems to be rhetorical. I watched the invasion live on TV when I was 14.

They almost did you clearly know jack about this.. Lets compare the innocent casualities.

Al-Qeada 3000 innocent Americans Twin-Towers..
America army 300,000 ore more Innocent Iraqi's..

But not all of them were killed by Americans. How many are killed by Al-Quaeda terrorists and how many are Shi'a vs. Sunni killings?

O wait Al-Qeada was never in Iraq but Afghanistan.. Hmmm
So what had Iraq to do with terrorism?

Really?

You called terrorists my brothers so i label all western countries as the same.

So you label out of convenience to insult me rather than with reasonable conviction?

Which country needed help?

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AMERICA PUT THOSE ARAB AND NON ARAB DICTATORS IN POWER EVEN THE ONES THAT COULD HAVE HELPED?

Afghanistan for one. High infant mortality, high unemployment, high crime etc. This needs improving to improve the lives of Afghani citizens don't you think?

Seems to be nothing stopping Saudi Arabia sending a peace keeping force to assist with the construction of infrastructure don't you think?

 

[Hufflechuff]

If one follows the cable news networks, it seems as if all terrorists are Muslims. It has even become axiomatic in some circles to chant: “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are Muslims.” Muslims and their “leftist dhimmi allies” respond feebly, mentioning Waco as the one counter example, unwittingly affirming the belief that “nearly all terrorists are Muslims.”

But perception is not reality. The data simply does not support such a hasty conclusion. On the FBI’s official website, there exists a chronological list of all terrorist attacks committed on U.S. soil from the year 1980 all the way to 2005. That list can be accessed here (scroll down all the way to the bottom).

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Yet notice the disparity in media coverage between the two. It would indeed be very interesting to construct a corresponding pie chart that depicted the level of media coverage of each group. The reason that Muslim apologists and their “leftist dhimmi allies” cannot recall another non-Islamic act of terrorism other than Waco is due to the fact that the media gives menial (if any) coverage to such events. If a terrorist attack does not fit the “Islam is the perennial and existential threat of our times” narrative, it is simply not paid much attention to, which in a circuitous manner reinforces and “proves” the preconceived narrative. It is to such an extent that the average American cannot remember any Jewish or Latino terrorist; why should he when he has never even heard of the Jewish Defense League or the Ejercito Popular Boricua Macheteros? Surely what he does not know does not exist!
All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't | loonwatch.com

Thoughts?

The data is skewed by actions in the 1980s. When people talk about modern terrorism they are not looking that far back. Modern major acts and threats of terrorism, certainly in the UK, is mainly Islamic.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

It is somewhat disconcerting to note that various centers of terrorism seem to take ascendancy in prevalence and impact of their attacks for different turns, almost like it was a niche of opportunity for angry people to air grievances - I would suggest that perhaps the degree to which such groups have in the past had their grievances addressed might perhaps be lending legitimacy to the abhorrent means they have selected to use for promoting their cause.

The same is true for many of the past centers of terrorism; which I personally find sad given that I have often sympathized with their causes prior to the choice by such groups to employ violent means against innocent people; and this invariably means I must instead condemn them. If you are to look at that breakdown for example, which of those groups of people are currently active at any one time in performing terrorism? How many of them did so as part of an effort to either draw attention to their cause or instead to somehow diminish those they saw as opponents? How many of their causes could you have considered to have had sufficient merit for reasoned debate had they not engaged in terrorism? I just cannot see that such a strategy could be considered effective... even if it might be seen as a niche of opportunity, it just seems so counter productive.

 

[F0uad]

That's not how it works. You can dismantle rhetoric with intellectual honesty and solid arguments, not by piling on MORE sophistry.

If someone says the moon is made of cheese, in your mind it's perfectly reasonable to respond with "that's wrong, because it's actually made out of two parts sugar and one part dust", since they started it? Heh. You may call that "combat", but, uhhh... that's just a child's dream.

So i should take a response that had nothing to do with what i said serious? What if i started talking about ice-cream when we were discussing terrorism would that make sense? Why should i reply with sincerity when the person is not listening and talks about irrelevant things?

 

[McBell]

So i should take a response that had nothing to do with what i said serious? What if i started talking about ice-cream when we were discussing terrorism would that make sense? Why should i reply with sincerity when the person is not listening and talks about irrelevant things?

Yes, why indeed?

 

[WyattDerp]

So i should take a response that had nothing to do with what i said serious? What if i started talking about ice-cream when we were discussing terrorism would that make sense? Why should i reply with sincerity when the person is not listening and talks about irrelevant things?

If a reply doesn't make sense, and you, without mentioning that, respond with something else which *also* doesn't make sense, which also is rhetoric, you give that first reply more credit than it deserves... if you know what I mean?

I didn't pay close enough attention to the discussion between you two to pass judgement either way (I really just responded to the idea of combating rhetoric with rhetoric, that sentence jumped out at me), I had the feeling you're both making valid points, but generally... yeah, if someone doesn't want to argue sincerely, there is nothing you can do; for that person!

But most people who read interwebs threads don't have a stake in them either way, and are much more open for the arguments presented in them. So you could either ignore what you consider nonsense completely, or explain why you consider it nonsense for the benefit of those readers.