All this transgender bathroom BS

[Kapalika]

I keep seeing a lot of topics about this. No one really gets what's going on, so here I'm going to break it down.

For those who want a real example of issues important to trans people: http://www.transequality.org/issues

lol no bathrooms on it. okay now back to my topic...

1. Transgender people have been using the bathrooms they want since forever. Sometimes it caused them trouble, but often it doesn't. Only really when transitioning.

2. The only reason this is an issue now is the media and political machine wants a dividing issue after gay marriage won. If transgender was really a real issue we would be talking about healthcare. I'm sick of seeing transgender people used as pawns in a political dance full of lies. The GOP is the worst about this.

3. It seems no one even really seems to understand what being transgender is in any of these discussions. It's not a mental illness, a male to female isn't a "boy" pretending to be a girl. And a FtM isn't a girl pretending to be a boy. It's been medically and scientifically documented for a long time that transgender/transexualism is a real thing.

4. No, no one is going to pretend to be transgender to spy on anyone. Never happened, never will. Someone appearing as the other sex transgender or not will always be heavily scrutinized if they enter a bathroom of the other sex, and in some cases the same sex if they look too butch or effeminate.

5. No, there is no laws preventing anyone from using any bathroom. Well, some states technically had it illegal even post surgery until recently. But nothing was ever enforced so far as I'm aware.

6. Saying only people who've had surgery can go to the bathroom assigned to their gender isn't really fair or really address anything. First off many people can't afford surgery and even FtM don't really have much viable SRS (sexual reassignment surgery). So you are basically saying "**** you" to any FtM. Also there isn't one "surgery" there are multiple ones. Now if you said they had be transitioning (HRT or not) to go into one, that actually makes some sense as it shows the person is really transgender but again no one was ever really posed as transgender to spy on anyone.

7. And no Obama did *not* give an executive order on bathrooms at schools. What *really* happened is the administration told schools that if they continued to discriminate by not allowing transitioning transgender people to use the bathroom of their identified gender they would risk loosing some of their federal funding aid.

8. But back to the main thing, like many things, you don't care about the bathroom issue. If you did all of you would of been raising hell about this years ago. It's always happened. None of you cared. And none of you really care about transgender people. This is all a pet issue. Transgender people have been using bathrooms for years. Sometimes they get beat up, sometimes worse and often nothing.

9. But you know what? Those who really care... actually want to improve the worst parts of transgender people's lives. Access to healthcare, job and housing discrimination, really high rates of homelessness, suicide, and hate crime violence. People make their lives hell and make them not even human, a joke, something that is to be laughed and mocked. Those who don't do this patronize and act like they are noble just for treating them like decent human beings. And all so many see them as is nothing more than their body. Either from the fetish chasers or to all the people who won't shut the **** up and stop asking questions about one's private parts. It's really odd how that's rude in any other situation but the moment they are trans everything is off the table. I've heard from some transgender people about how when someone learns that they are trans sometimes people attempt to grope or feel for body parts or to see if breasts ect other stuff is 'real'. Particularly cops.

10. Violence against transgender people are at an all time high, NONE OF YOU ON THIS FORUM ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT. Every topic I see about transgender people is about this stupid partisan bathroom issue and not even the aspect where it matters like violence or the high UTI rate due to fear of using public restrooms. No just wanting to use them not even the ramifications of the issue for trans folk.

11. Right well half the topics I see anyway is about how so and so is really a boy or so and so is really a girl and will violate the privacy of your kids. Well what about that kid's privacy too? really public restrooms are not totally private being public, and it's just as easy to argue that the trans kids privacy would be just as violated putting them in the other locker/restroom.

12. I Just... get so angry. This isn't even an honest conversation. It's all shrouded in political rivalry. Transgender people are just the backdrop of the culture war... and most in the conversation are not even on transgender people's side... they are on their own side. Soundbite politics are easier than really wanting serious change. The difference here is that people are dying because of it.

http://brandongaille.com/15-profound-transgender-hate-crime-statistics/
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/13/transgender-homicide-victims-us-has-hit-historic-high
http://www.advocate.com/crime/2015/06/09/anti-lgbt-violence-down-anti-trans-hate-crimes

 

[Quetzal]

NONE OF YOU ON THIS FORUM ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT.

Careful. If this is a specific topic regarding this issue that you want to talk about, I think it would be great if you brought it up.

 

[RRex]

The alternative lifestyle thing has become the new "religion". Cramming it down unwilling throats is not the answer.

One resists the agenda even more.

The best course of action is to STFU about it because no one really cares. We are burned out.

 

[Quetzal]

The alternative lifestyle thing

It isn't a lifestyle, its quite a bit more than that...

One resists the agenda even more.

There isn't an agenda...

because no one really cares.

And we DO care. Honestly, this has to be one of most insensitive replies to the topic I have ever seen.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I really don't care about the bathroom issue whatsoever. In fact, I think very few people really do - other than, people will start to care about something if they keep hearing about it over and over. Of course, to be honest, I really don't give transgender issues more than a passing thought every now and then anyway. I have enough of my own problems.

 

[Quintessence]

Methinks some folks may be spending a wee too much time listening to sensationalist news outlets, and/or giving a wee bit too much weight to the voices of a few vocal fools. The only reason this is even on my radar is because, as @Kilgore Trout , people keep bringing it up, which honestly confuses the potatoes out of me. I haven't participated in any of the conversations about this, either on the forums, or in the non-forum life. Until now, because maybe I'll be that voice that reminds people that noise is not the same as signal. There are good reasons why I ignore mainstream media outlets; it is a lot of noise, and barely any signal.

 

[Quetzal]

Methinks some folks may be spending a wee too much time listening to sensationalist news outlets, and/or giving a wee bit too much weight to the voices of a few vocal fools. The only reason this is even on my radar is because, as @Kilgore Trout , people keep bringing it up, which honestly confuses the potatoes out of me. I haven't participated in any of the conversations about this, either on the forums, or in the non-forum life. Until now, because maybe I'll be that voice that reminds people that noise is not the same as signal. There are good reasons why I ignore mainstream media outlets; it is a lot of noise, and barely any signal.

I really don't care about the bathroom issue whatsoever. In fact, I think very few people really do - other than, people will start to care about something if they keep hearing about it over and over. Of course, to be honest, I really don't give transgender issues more than a passing thought every now and then anyway. I have enough of my own problems.

Regardless, it is something important to @Mandi and she is quite passionate about it. Showing up to a thread to just say "I don't care" it about as productive as going to a buffet to say you aren't hungry.

 

[RRex]

It isn't a lifestyle, its quite a bit more than that...


There isn't an agenda...


And we DO care. Honestly, this has to be one of most insensitive replies to the topic I have ever seen.

What part of BURNED OUT don't you get?

 

[Quintessence]

Regardless, it is something important to @Mandi and she is quite passionate about it. Showing up to a thread to just say "I don't care" it about as productive as going to a buffet to say you aren't hungry.

That's not the message I was aiming to get across. The message is "if the noise is bothering you, it may be a good idea to leave the room for your own health and well-being" along with "noise is not signal." Neither of which is "I don't care." If I didn't care, I would not have responded to this thread in the first place.

 

[Quetzal]

That's not the message I was aiming to get across. The message is "if the noise is bothering you, it may be a good idea to leave the room for your own health and well-being" along with "noise is not signal." Neither of which is "I don't care." If I didn't care, I would not have responded to this thread in the first place.

That's fair, now my counter point to this would be this is much more than "noise" according to the OP. If you believe that the statements and concerns presented are "noise", perhaps elaborating a bit more as to why you think so might be helpful. Describing the struggles and concerns being brought up as "noise" can very easily be seen as condescending.

Edit: I am putting noise in quotes not to be disrespectful, just to keep the terminology from post to post the same.

 

[suncowiam]

That's not the message I was aiming to get across. The message is "if the noise is bothering you, it may be a good idea to leave the room for your own health and well-being" along with "noise is not signal." Neither of which is "I don't care." If I didn't care, I would not have responded to this thread in the first place.

Why leave the room when you can turn down the noise? There's a passive stance and an active stance.

 

[suncowiam]

What part of BURNED OUT don't you get?

We get it. You're burnt out.

If you keep reading this post, you're going to burn yourself out even further. So my suggestion to you is to stop reading this post.

 

[Laika]

Transgender rights is still a new issue to me. Literally in the past week or two since it has been discussed on RF even if it's been on the radar for a while. In fact until a few years ago I still didn't know much about sexism or racism. debating feminism on Revleft brought up the former and watching the Boondocks made me think about the latter. It is admittedly a result of being a white male who has been blind to these issues all his life. That first sense that my "whiteness" is a factor in my identity took some getting used to and recognising that I was Eurocentric and therefore implicitly perpetuating racist ideologies was a shock. Sexual racism is still something I think about and I am still recognising the way I am blind to gender inequalities. Psychological Conflicts over my masculinity with bisexuality may make it harder for me to see gender inequalities when the homosexual is internalised as feminine (and therefore a "threat" to a sexist self-image). I know I am more racist and sexist than I would like to believe as a product of a society where these things are accepted as normal; it is something you learn to look out for and change when you can.

I gave some emotional support to an online anarchist friend as they came out as transgender (male to female). Her girlfriend was supportive and so were her parents after the initial shock. [the discrimination is even in the language: do I write him or her? I wrote "him" the first time round.]

I assumed gender dysphoria is similar to my own issues coming out as bisexual (only probably worse because the change is visible so "everyone" has a view on it and judges you). So with that I had some way to connect and be kind and supportive.

the bathroom debate is the tip of an iceberg but for me on RF it is that first "window" through which the "gender-blind" can start to see the problems and think about what it would be like to walk in someone else's shoes. Part of me wondered whether gender segregated toilets was any different from when toilets where divided on race. That was a weird moment when the normal took on a new and highly politicised meaning.

I talked about it with my dad on one of our drives round in the car just to get out of the house and neither of us knew exactly what to say. It was literally the first time my dad had even talked about it. I know it's not much but for me that is a beginning. Every revolution starts by questioning what was once the status quo.

 

[Quintessence]

Describing the struggles and concerns being brought up as "noise" can very easily be seen as condescending.

Huh. I figured the "noise vs. signal" analogy was common enough people would simply get the reference. Pardon.

"Noise" refers to the sensationalist drivel the media is drumming up, along with vapid commentators who feed the sensationalist machine with foolish words that are unworthy of attention because they are not grounded in facts, thoughtful analysis, or critical thinking (which is "signal"). Put another way, "noise" is hype, marketing, and/or gossip. What the OP criticizes is mostly the noise, and the noise is clearly upsetting them. And this upsets me, given sensationalist media ticks me off precisely because it drums up hype and adds needless stress to people's lives with vacuous words of fools. Instead of focusing on real issues and analysis (signal), sensationalist media keeps the reader occupied with nonsense (noise). As I said, there are reasons why I ignore mainstream media, and this is one of them. Mandi is getting upset by the drivel, and it ticks me off that this drivel is harming people. Thus my suggestion is basically "quit listening to idiots for your own sanity and well-being." Apparently I didn't pick the best way of saying that.

 

[Quetzal]

Huh. I figured the "noise vs. signal" analogy was common enough people would simply get the reference. Pardon.

"Noise" refers to the sensationalist drivel the media is drumming up, along with vapid commentators who feed the sensationalist machine with foolish words that are unworthy of attention because they are not grounded in facts, thoughtful analysis, or critical thinking (which is "signal"). Put another way, "noise" is hype, marketing, and/or gossip. What the OP criticizes is mostly the noise, and the noise is clearly upsetting them. And this upsets me, given sensationalist media ticks me off precisely because it drums up hype and adds needless stress to people's lives with vacuous words of fools. Instead of focusing on real issues and analysis (signal), sensationalist media keeps the reader occupied with nonsense (noise). As I said, there are reasons why I ignore mainstream media, and this is one of them. Mandi is getting upset by the drivel, and it ticks me off that this drivel is harming people. Thus my suggestion is basically "quit listening to idiots for your own sanity and well-being." Apparently I didn't pick the best way of saying that.

DOH! I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to the OP as noise. That was my fault. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Quintessence]

DOH! I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to the OP as noise. That was my fault. Thank you for the clarification.

Nah, it's okay. I have my moments where eloquence and precision of language escapes me.

 

[Riverwolf]

What part of BURNED OUT don't you get?

If you're "burned out" on the issue, why'd you make this thread?

 

[RRex]

If you're "burned out" on the issue, why'd you make this thread?

I didn't.

 

[Riverwolf]

I didn't.

LOL So you didn't. Not sure why I assumed so...

My bad. Carry on.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It must be nice not to have to care about these things. How privileged you are, how lucky you are to be "normal" in the eyes of society.