All this transgender bathroom BS

[Father Heathen]

The alternative lifestyle thing has become the new "religion".

Just like being a brunette, left handed, or really tall is a "religion", right? Wait, what?

Cramming it down unwilling throats is not the answer.

So seeking the same rights, freedom, and equality that you have is "cramming it down your throat"? They exist. You share this world with them and everyone else. Deal with it, kiddo.

One resists the agenda even more.

Justice is a damned fine agenda.

The best course of action is to STFU about it because no one really cares. We are burned out.

Those on the wrong side of history and reason really should STFU and fade into obscurity and irrelevance.

 

[AsianActivist]

It's just the latest fashionable conservative "outrage-du-jour". If it wasn't this they'd be whining about how black people, women, or people of the Jewish faith have "too many " rights.

 

[Father Heathen]

What part of BURNED OUT don't you get?

Apparently not enough to refrain from posting in the thread?

 

[Kapalika]

Ya, I'd say the violence, job, housing and healthcare discrimination is pretty important to me.

Seeing as I've faced at least some of those issues myself.

The only time restrooms have ever been an issue for me is when I was in the men's room and a a man cornered me in one. Thankfully it was mostly a misunderstanding because I almost stabbed the guy. The irony to all those who believe all these issues about 'men' in womens bathrooms is that I've never once had an issue in the women's restroom when trying to pass, only in the men's.

But I'm smart and only go to restrooms where and when no one is around. Bathrooms are the least of my concerns but I admit I feel nervous anytime I go in either.

I've also for the last several months faced healthcare discrimination and only recently has there been any good news about that (apparently the DHHR made a statement very recently that should help people in my position).

I've lost family. I've also been demeaned and characterized as nonhuman by some people I used to know. Me just being female has also affected where I can work.

I'll admit that it's demeaning to have to be forced to use the restroom of your opposite gender when you are passing/transitioning or on HRT or whatever. But it isn't like the issue in of itself affects your life in ways outside of your control like the other issues. It could though if it leads to violence or harassment, which it has for many before. And that aspect hasn't even been touched by the media, just the demeaning part. Not even the violence part. This is part of the narrative built that it's about people who are "too sensitive" instead of trans people who are possibly in danger in this situation.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Violence against trans people and lack of necessary health care have been dismissed and glossed over for a long long time, even before Stonewall (btw, check that history too). Cis people are largely so ignorant of the scope and depth of the problem that it's as foreign to them as what frozen methane is doing elsewhere in the solar system. Therefore, because they don't see it, it doesn't effect them and/or it doesn't exist.

It's only when something effects cis people when an issue will be talked about. And then it will be how cis people are the "real" victims or how cis people are inconvenienced or burned out. Hence, bathroom debates.

While cis people groan about how trans people are too angry or uppity or ugly or sick or suddenly visible, trans people are finding themselves maneuvering their time, money, and self-care so that they aren't assaulted.

Hate to say it, but there's a whole lot of "but what about how cis people feel"? ....going on here and elsewhere.

 

[1137]

If someone has depression we don't encourage them to commit suicide or tell them their feelings of inadequacy and self hate are true. We want them to take medication, go to therapy, recognize those thought patterns as false.

If someone is anorexic we don't encourage them to get liposuction or not eat. Instead we want them to understand these thoughts and know that they are not actually fat and don't need to lose weight.

With a schizophrenic we want them on medication and to know their paranoid fantasies are not true.

With a transgender individual we... encourage them in their delusion to the point of using opposite sex bathrooms, associate with their delusional version of themselves,perhaps even have serious cosmic surgery? I'm going to go ahead an guess those surgeries and treatments are expensive. Capitalism trumping actual care as always.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Justice is a damned fine agenda.

I'd "like" this a thousand times over if I could.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If someone has depression we don't encourage them to commit suicide or tell them their feelings of inadequacy and self hate are true. We want them to take medication, go to therapy, recognize those thought patterns as false.

If someone is anorexic we don't encourage them to get liposuction or not eat. Instead we want them to understand these thoughts and know that they are not actually fat and don't need to lose weight.

With a schizophrenic we want them on medication and to know their paranoid fantasies are not true.

With a transgender individual we... encourage them in their delusion to the point of using opposite sex bathrooms, associate with their delusional version of themselves,perhaps even have serious cosmic surgery? I'm going to go ahead an guess those surgeries and treatments are expensive. Capitalism trumping actual care as always.

Oh goodie, gaslighting has appeared. I'll get to that in a second.

Listen, survivors of anorexia nervosa understand that what we experience in our body image as WAY different than the experiences and needs of people like Shadow Wolf, Frank, and Mandi. I'm a survivor myself. Lets not suggest my treatment is anywhere near what trans people need.

I'm addressing your post here and elsewhere as an attempt to gaslight trans people and to mark their perspectives, their experiences, their needs, etc as "not really real" and that they don't know what is best for themselves. I don't see a malicious intent here, but the insistence of dismissing their needs as they vocalize them as anything but legitimate is dehumanizing and insulting.

 

[1137]

Oh goodie, gaslighting has appeared. I'll get to that in a second.

Listen, survivors of anorexia nervosa understand that what we experience in our body image as WAY different than the experiences and needs of people like Shadow Wolf, Frank, and Mandi. I'm a survivor myself. Lets not suggest my treatment is anywhere near what trans people need.

I'm addressing your post here and elsewhere as an attempt to gaslight trans people and to mark their perspectives, their experiences, their needs, etc as "not really real" and that they don't know what is best for themselves. I don't see a malicious intent here, but the insistence of dismissing their needs as they vocalize them as anything but legitimate is dehumanizing and insulting.

How is what they're feeling "not real". You think I'd just brush off depression, schizophrenia, anorexia,bipolar disorder, multiple personalities, etc as "not real"? They're very real which is why they're a problem. We would and should NEVER treat ANY other psychological disorder the way we are treating transgender individuals, simple as that.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the news, cops arrest a guard for giving a trans woman the boot from a lav...
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...er-Woman-Using-Womens-Restroom-380010941.html

 

[MysticSang'ha]

How is what they're feeling "not real". You think I'd just brush off depression, schizophrenia, anorexia,bipolar disorder, multiple personalities, etc as "not real"? They're very real which is why they're a problem. We would and should NEVER treat ANY other psychological disorder the way we are treating transgender individuals, simple as that.

You missed my point. It's what trans people are vocalizing themselves as what they need that is being dismissed as "not real". You are taking it upon yourself to decide for them what is legitimate and what needs to be erased.

 

[Kapalika]

If someone has depression we don't encourage them to commit suicide or tell them their feelings of inadequacy and self hate are true. We want them to take medication, go to therapy, recognize those thought patterns as false.

If someone is anorexic we don't encourage them to get liposuction or not eat. Instead we want them to understand these thoughts and know that they are not actually fat and don't need to lose weight.

With a schizophrenic we want them on medication and to know their paranoid fantasies are not true.

With a transgender individual we... encourage them in their delusion to the point of using opposite sex bathrooms, associate with their delusional version of themselves,perhaps even have serious cosmic surgery? I'm going to go ahead an guess those surgeries and treatments are expensive. Capitalism trumping actual care as always.

The only standard for care is to assist in transition. No other treatment is effective. It isn't cosmetic; hormones are not cosmetic it changes much more than just your body. Surgery doesn't just change how you look either. The former affects how one feels and thinks and the latter affects sex life.

There are these things called standards of care and nothing in it says to deny one the treatments they need.

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Standar..._Transgender,_and_Gender_Nonconforming_People

Historically there have been several people across several cultures and time periods who are what we would call transgender today. Some societies had accommodations of varying sorts and some even still do today. In various cultures there are and have been things like twin spirits or Hijras which were both third genders and in both of those instances they wre the cultural adaptation of the reality of people who are transgender. In some Indonesian cultures there are as many as 5 genders and likewise their genders reflect transgender MtF and FtM ect. Gender is not a hard and fast thing.

I would think that someone of your persuasion would support gender variance as it would help one be more in-tune with themselves as a distinct entity.

Also it's not and hasn't been considered a mental disorder for a very long time. And even when "Gender Identity Disorder" existed the only recommended treatment was transition. Unless someone is nonbinary enough to be content or happy with their bodies it's very rare that someone who's transgender will be happy without being seen as their identified gender. For many of us transition is the only way for that to happen. Trying to convince us that we are anything different doesn't work.

A lot of study has been done on this and basically the scientific view is that the brain is affected by hormones in the womb that affects it's development. So it's not wholly psychological.

I kind of think that pathologizing gender is like pathologizing sexual orientation.

 

[1137]

You missed my point. It's what trans people are vocalizing themselves as what they need that is being dismissed as "not real". You are taking it upon yourself to decide for them what is legitimate and what needs to be erased.

Ah, gotcha. So those alien voiced after a schizophrenic patient are real. It's true that nobody loves the depressed patient and they'd be better off dead. The anorexic individual is totally super fat. I mean, who am I to say they're wrong?

What a joke!

 

[Kapalika]

I edited my last post a little bit since i Posted it 5 minutes ago as I forgot something but I just want to say that science and medicine doesn't see it as mental illness or delusion, so why do you?

 

[1137]

The only standard for care is to assist in transition. No other treatment is effective. It isn't cosmetic; hormones are not cosmetic it changes much more than just your body. Surgery doesn't just change how you look either. The former affects how one feels and thinks and the latter affects sex life.

There are these things called standards of care and nothing in it says to deny one the treatments they need.

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Standar..._Transgender,_and_Gender_Nonconforming_People

Historically there have been several people across several cultures and time periods who are what we would call transgender today. Some societies had accommodations of varying sorts and some even still do today. In various cultures there are and have been things like twin spirits or Hijras which were both third genders and in both of those instances they wre the cultural adaptation of the reality of people who are transgender. In some Indonesian cultures there are as many as 5 genders and likewise their genders reflect transgender MtF and FtM ect. Gender is not a hard and fast thing.

I would think that someone of your persuasion would support gender variance as it would help one be more in-tune with themselves as a distinct entity.

Also it's not and hasn't been considered a mental disorder for a very long time. And even when "Gender Identity Disorder" existed the only recommended treatment was transition. Unless someone is nonbinary enough to be content or happy with their bodies it's very rare that someone who's transgender will be happy without being seen as their identified gender. For many of us transition is the only way for that to happen. Trying to convince us that we are anything different doesn't work.

A lot of study has been done on this and basically the scientific view is that the brain is affected by hormones in the womb that affects it's development. So it's not wholly psychological.

I kind of think that pathologizing gender is like pathologizing sexual orientation.

My example holds. Caring for patients doesn't involve giving into their delusion. I'm not going to encourage my bipolar patient to jump off the roof when she manically thinks she can fly, or to go on a shopping spree and spend all her money.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

If someone has depression we don't encourage them to commit suicide or tell them their feelings of inadequacy and self hate are true. We want them to take medication, go to therapy, recognize those thought patterns as false.

If someone is anorexic we don't encourage them to get liposuction or not eat. Instead we want them to understand these thoughts and know that they are not actually fat and don't need to lose weight.

With a schizophrenic we want them on medication and to know their paranoid fantasies are not true.

With a transgender individual we... encourage them in their delusion to the point of using opposite sex bathrooms, associate with their delusional version of themselves,perhaps even have serious cosmic surgery? I'm going to go ahead an guess those surgeries and treatments are expensive. Capitalism trumping actual care as always.

While we're at it lets stop VR and prosthetic treatment for phantom limb syndrome because we shouldn't indulge in their delusion that they have a limb.

Of course we don't treat GID like schizophrenia or depression. Because it's not like either of those things nor do their mode of treatments work on people suffering from GID.

Sexual reassignment isn't a cosmetic surgery, it's medical. It's a verified treatment for a specific illness, and patients must undergo both surgical and psychological evaluation, diagnosis and treatment. Who exactly are you to broadly claim it's all misconduct on the part of all these varied medical professionals? What's your qualifications or the qualifications of your sources?

 

[1137]

I edited my last post a little bit since i Posted it 5 minutes ago as I forgot something but I just want to say that science and medicine doesn't see it as mental illness or delusion, so why do you?

Because that's what it is. How is it different than someone believing a foreign government is after them, or that they're a burden to their family? A man believing he is a woman is a false belief, it's super super simple. Our mainstream medicine simply doesn't care about anything but profit though, and there's much to be had from hormones and surgeries.

 

[1137]

While we're at it lets stop VR and prosthetic treatment for phantom limb syndrome because we shouldn't indulge in their delusion that they have a limb.

Of course we don't treat GID like schizophrenia or depression. Because it's not like either of those things nor do their mode of treatments work on people suffering from GID.

Sexual reassignment isn't a cosmetic surgery, it's medical. It's a verified treatment for a specific illness, and patients must undergo both surgical and psychological evaluation, diagnosis and treatment. Who exactly are you to broadly claim it's all misconduct on the part of all these varied medical professionals? What's your qualifications or the qualifications of your sources?

Fine. Next time my drug addicted patient says he needs heroin to survive I'll tell him he's right and end services. Who am I to question what he feels?

 

[1137]

I'm finished debating this topic because it's never going to get anywhere. I'm sorry, but no matter how much you all beg me to I will not encourage my depressed clients to commit suicide or my schizophrenic clients to lock themselves in a tin foil house. Psychology was never about supporting delusional thought but helping over come it, and that is what I will continue to do. This is just disgusting at this point, and I will not cease trying to help my clients.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Fine. Next time my drug addicted patient says he needs heroin to survive I'll tell him he's right and end services. Who am I to question what he feels?

Fine next time I red herring I'll herring the red. Who am I to stay germane to the topic?

GID isn't about 'feelings' any more than phantom limb syndrome.