Way to completely miss my point even further.
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All this transgender bathroom BS
- Thread starter Kapalika
- Start date
Way to completely miss my point even further.
You keep right on ignoring actual psychologists and their findings about GID and recommendations on treatment in order to broadly declare 'what psychology is about.'
How? Why? Do you have a refutation to the decades of research on this matter that are saying to the contrary of your opinion?
How dishonest do you have to be to act like anyone claimed any of that or make that kind of equivocation?
If you are really a psychologist I would greatly recommend you read your peers' research on the matter. And if you ever try to treat someone who's transgender you are in for a lawsuit if you totally ignore the standards of care which it sounds like you would in that case.
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This. A million times. But I'll add that GID isn't in the newest literature but rather Gender Dysphoria which can happen to anyone I'd reckon not just someone who's transgender. I can see a lot of injuries causing dysphoria for CIS men for example.
No, it's because it isn't following the standards of care. This was established decades ago.
I don't think you are really a psychologist because you'd at least be somewhat aware that here are standards of care for transgender people and how to treat them.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's an excellent point, because it reflects just how much emphasis people put on genitals. Personally, facial surgery is a higher priority than genital surgery. I've even looked at hip implants, and having paid very close attention to any time people are discussing trans issues, I've noticed hardly anyone ever brings up the fact that women have hips that are about as wide as their shoulders. But, people do talk a helluva lot about genitals and breasts as defining a gender.
Yup. But people want to protect us, and the privacy of those the issue isn't even about, by making us use unisex facilities.
The thing is, the only one cramming anything down anyone's throat are those *****ing a fit over it. Transsexuals have been using the restroom appropriate for them for a long time now, and often without incident. There's nothing being pushed until school boards and "concerned parents" make a fuss over it. If you're burned out, why not just ignore the issue? It has zero bearing on you, and there is so much still needed equality in society, you can either just go about living your own life or keep getting yourself caught up in an ultimately fultile struggle that will never end until complete equity.
What agenda? The only agenda being pushed is the one to deny rights.
Plus psychologists don't call patients 'clients.' Probably picked that up from their psychiatrist, which is a different thing all together.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Very much so. It's actually sad that even this left leaning forum has quiet a bit of it, and not necessarily from right-winged members.
And yet you keep going on about this, even though it is undeniable that if you "let" someone be anorexic it can to irreparable damage, and even be a cause of death, but if you "let" someone be transsexual, their mood goes from very depressed and anxious to, for the most part, being much happier and their risk of suicide plummets. And typically why they kill themselves post-op is because of a lack of acceptance and social difficulties.
I've linked to the Standards of Care numerous times, and the ones I'm offering it to I doubt even glace through it.
Terrible analogy. I also worked as an associate professor in a state college. There are reasonable academic appeals when a grade is issued based arbitrarily and not on academic standards. Appeals have a process and are considered with great care.
This is a medical concern. It should receive more care and attention because it's about human health.
I never said we shouldn't allow people to be trans... people can be who they want to be, dress how they want, take what they want. In fact, most distress I've seen from trans people is due to others, not because of their own self image.
OK let me give into this postmodern counseling and apply it to clients with my own company. All names here are false names.
Gary is a heroin addict. He believes that without heroin he could not function, and would lose his house, job, and any chance of being with his daughter again. Normally my company would help Gary find rehabs or at least resources,encourage an addiction counselor, etc. Now we have to agree with Gary and encourage his continued use of heroin, cause Gary knows best.
Linda lost her children because her spouse used corporal punishment. Linda believes that there was nothing wrong with this, and indeed having her kids hit and spanked made them more obedient. In the past we would have taught the dangers of corporal punishment and preferable alternatives, but now we know that Linda knows best and gets to raise her children as she wants, so we provide belts and paddles.
John doesn't understand why the molestation of his daughter was not OK. It's been that way all his life, to show affection sexually. In the past john probably wouldn't even come to us,going straight to prison without passing go. But now we know that john can express love however he wants.
Nathan has found that cutting himself is a good way to relieve his self hatred. Normally we would have addressed these feelings and actions, looking for a different coping mechanism. Now we provide a razor because Nathan knows what's best for him.
Is my company full of good psychologists yet?
I'd be super interested in input from @Saint Frankenstein who believes truth is subjective.
Gary is a heroin addict. He believes that without heroin he could not function, and would lose his house, job, and any chance of being with his daughter again. Normally my company would help Gary find rehabs or at least resources,encourage an addiction counselor, etc. Now we have to agree with Gary and encourage his continued use of heroin, cause Gary knows best.
Linda lost her children because her spouse used corporal punishment. Linda believes that there was nothing wrong with this, and indeed having her kids hit and spanked made them more obedient. In the past we would have taught the dangers of corporal punishment and preferable alternatives, but now we know that Linda knows best and gets to raise her children as she wants, so we provide belts and paddles.
John doesn't understand why the molestation of his daughter was not OK. It's been that way all his life, to show affection sexually. In the past john probably wouldn't even come to us,going straight to prison without passing go. But now we know that john can express love however he wants.
Nathan has found that cutting himself is a good way to relieve his self hatred. Normally we would have addressed these feelings and actions, looking for a different coping mechanism. Now we provide a razor because Nathan knows what's best for him.
Is my company full of good psychologists yet?
I'd be super interested in input from @Saint Frankenstein who believes truth is subjective.
It kind of is and isn't. Certain things about my body causes me distress more so than any person can, but overall yes it's about how my gender will be received that makes me anxious. I'm not sure how others feel but I know that a lot are much more miserable than I could imagine being with their body overall.
But it also helps I can to some degree to pass without any treatment. But even with that I'm not totally functional living as CIS. The biggest thing for me is being seen and treated as female, not my body per se. Although again I have certain hangups that mean that I need at least some forms of treatment for transition. I think many others may feel the same but I also know that a *lot* just wish they were born XX or XY and I feel that way too, but to some degree have made peace with what I physically am, even if that is not emotionally, spiritually, or mentally what I am (Female).
I was going to say exactly that, concerning the stress trans and homosexuals have is that it's external and probably not internal. Who's to say that if there were no external stress with a communal environment of acceptance and nurture, that such individuals would not thrive more in the community.
IMO, you've assumed the role of doctor and psychiatrist. Maybe you're right, but maybe you're wrong. Instead of grouping all these conditions that you've mentioned into a bucket, maybe it would be more clear if you keep them separate.
Making a reference to another condition implies the two conditions have roots to each other. Can you or I really say that? Further more, if you want to suggest this then I'll take proof of it. Honestly, I would say you have not done so and that you are speculating.
They have something extremely important in common, they are objectively false beliefs that cause distress to the point of dysfunction in the patient.
Once again, this is like saying that a person suffering from phantom limb and being treated with VR and prosthetic should cease immediately, because the body disassociation causing distress is 'objectively false belief' in limb sensation that the treatment is indulging a psychosis where the patient claims to know what's best.
In other words, patently ridiculous.
Not only is this an unevidenced accusation that psychologists are diagnosing and treating based purely off what the patient wants, but then you're trying to guilt-by-association with destructive behaviors when actual results of sexual reassignment shows that it curbs self-destructive behavior.
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You know... All human beings have some delusions of sorts. Don't get me started with religion.
There's some subjectivity here, right? Actually, there's a lot of subjectivity here concerning accepted cultural norms.
The real measure to any of it, is the point of being dysfunctional. Now, let's be completely specific about this next point. Why is it again, that being transexual/transgendered a point of dysfunction for that individual? How would it affect that person's health? No other social or cultural inputs should be factored back into this.
Because, I assume, and I AM COMPLETELY assuming, that a transexual living in a world of only transexuals, I don't think they would have more or less issues than our current population?
Now, you put schizophrenic folks together, that's a whole other thing. Same with anorexic/bulimic folks. They're still in danger of being extremely unhealthy due to nutritional imbalance...
I'm sorry, I've never seen a treatment for phantom limbs that encourages belief that your limb still exists.
Sorry, but I consider things like hatred of one's body to be dangerous. It can lead to things like negative self image and depression, which can lead to serious issues.
Back to the subjective part.
We all have some form of dislikes/hate/disgusts of our body, persona, situations... That's being human. So maybe the fix to such "dislikes" is to simply be who you want to be? Do what you want to do? Obviously, this won't work in all situations. But maybe it will work for transexuals.
I hated the fact that I was fat when I was younger. So, I worked out and got skinny. Stupid argument, sure. But the point is, it's subjective.
You brought a case study in another thread correlating post gender-change operations and suicide rate. I read that article a month ago. I think that would have been fair to assert if that same research can be reproduced by different organizations, especially from organizations that are not biased. If this can proven 100% true, then there should be a huge disclaimer to the side effects of such procedures. But in the end, as I believe in choice and freedom, I would not prevent the individual from doing what they want as long as it is no danger to me or society.