All Truth is Conditional. Discuss!

[Skwim]

I don't follow your argument that I have made truth an impossibility.

My error in having mistakenly dropped an important qualifier. I meant to say.

"You can define a term any way you wish, of course, but what you've done here is to make the notion of absolute truth an impossibility."

Defining "absolute truth" as truth existing outside of conditionals is no different than defining an elephant as a beast without mass. The essence of absolute truth requires conditionals no less than the essence of elephantness requires mass. Whatever it is you seek to carry the essence of absolute truth must by its very nature be defined in some manner, and those defining characteristics function as conditionals that distinguish it from all others.

By the way, truth does not refer to things, but more properly to propositions.

Yes, propositions about things.

 

[Sunstone]

Wouldn't the existence of only conditional truth be an absolute (non-conditional) axiom of the universe, and therefore a self-refutation?

Let me think about that a bit. I don't want to complicate things by offering a hasty answer.

 

[Sunstone]

My error in having mistakenly dropped an important qualifier. I meant to say.

"You can define a term any way you wish, of course, but what you've done here is to make the notion of absolute truth an impossibility."

Defining "absolute truth" as truth existing outside of conditionals is no different than defining an elephant as a beast without mass. The essence of absolute truth requires conditionals no less than the essence of elephantness requires mass. Whatever it is you seek to carry the essence of absolute truth must by its very nature be defined in some manner, and those defining characteristics function as conditionals that distinguish it from all others.

Yes, propositions about things.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm going to take the rest of the evening off from this subject in order to let my brain rest a bit, but I will respond to your post tomorrow.

 

[dust1n]

Truth is not always conditional.

Gravity always pulls things towards the center of the planet, regardless of how sure I am that I can fly.

Not in an environment with no gravitational pull... like those chambers NASA uses.

 

[dust1n]

Wouldn't the existence of only conditional truth be an absolute (non-conditional) axiom of the universe, and therefore a self-refutation?

Wouldn't the self-refutation be a confirmation of it's validity?

 

[Smoke]

All truth is conditional because a view from nowhere is impossible.

I like that answer. I'm more inclined to say that truth is provisional, rather than conditional, but you may have just convinced me that it's both.

 

[Penumbra]

Wouldn't the self-refutation be a confirmation of it's validity?

If the statement, "all truth is conditional" is conditional itself, then it's not just conditional, but incorrect, because it contains the word "all".

 

[dust1n]

If the statement, "all truth is conditional" is conditional itself, then it's not just conditional, but incorrect, because it contains the word "all".

Right... so all truth being conditional is also conditional, so the statement is only conditionally true.

 

[Penumbra]

Right... so all truth being conditional is also conditional, so the statement is only conditionally true.

Conditional means it rests upon certain conditions. Being wrong does not make something conditional.

The inclusion of the word "all" means that the statement is not conditional. It includes all truth in its assumption. If there is a single non-conditional truth, then that does not render this statement conditional, it renders it incorrect.

If, instead, the statement that all truth is conditional is true in the sense that every other truth is conditional, then this statement becomes absolute rather than conditional, and therefore invalidates itself and becomes incorrect again.

It would have to be changed to:
"Most truth is conditional."
or
"All truth is conditional, except for this one which is absolute."

 

[Willamena]

For argument's sake, assume that all truth is conditional* and that, consequently, there is no such thing as absolute truth. Why, then, is all truth conditional?


*By conditional, one means that propositions depend for their truth or falsity on a set of conditions, and that no propositions can be true or false in the absence of a set of conditions. Thus, things can only be said to be conditionally true, or circumstantially true, but can never be said to be absolutely true, for to say that something is absolutely true implies that it is true irregardless of any condition or circumstance.

The way that a proposition can be conditionally true is if it is not the only proposition being considered for truth, i.e. it is being considered along with other propositions by which to compare (the conditions). In this case, where it is not the truth of only one proposition that is being considered, it is "the truth of not just one proposition" that is conditional.

 

[Willamena]

Truth is absolute: a thing is either true, or it is not. As truth is determined, it is relative; as it is nested in other truth, it is conditional; as "now" is reality, it is provisional. None of these perspectives disqualify it from being absolute.

 

[linwood]

Truth is not always conditional.

Gravity always pulls things towards the center of the planet, regardless of how sure I am that I can fly.

The existence of gravity is the condition necessary to validate that truth.
That truth is conditional.

 

[tomato1236]

The existence of gravity is the condition necessary to validate that truth.
That truth is conditional.

So truth is conditional because truth is only truth if it's true?

 

[Willamena]

So truth is conditional because truth is only truth if it's true?

I think he's saying that truth is dependent upon existence, so existence is a condition of truth.

Of course, while truth exists, it's also the case that existence is true.

 

[Luminous]

For argument's sake, assume that all truth is conditional* and that, consequently, there is no such thing as absolute truth. Why, then, is all truth conditional?


*By conditional, one means that propositions depend for their truth or falsity on a set of conditions, and that no propositions can be true or false in the absence of a set of conditions. Thus, things can only be said to be conditionally true, or circumstantially true, but can never be said to be absolutely true, for to say that something is absolutely true implies that it is true irregardless of any condition or circumstance.

the only absolute truth is agnosticism. The only thing i know for sure is that i know nothing else for sure.

 

[dust1n]

Conditional means it rests upon certain conditions. Being wrong does not make something conditional.

The inclusion of the word "all" means that the statement is not conditional. It includes all truth in its assumption. If there is a single non-conditional truth, then that does not render this statement conditional, it renders it incorrect.

If, instead, the statement that all truth is conditional is true in the sense that every other truth is conditional, then this statement becomes absolute rather than conditional, and therefore invalidates itself and becomes incorrect again.

It would have to be changed to:
"Most truth is conditional."
or
"All truth is conditional, except for this one which is absolute."

Tell me... is the statement paradoxical or only paradoxical in relation to us?

 

[ericoh2]

To address the OP, I would put it this way: Truth exists differently for different forms of being. Truth exists in different degrees for the a plant, worm, dog and a human (that is, each experiences reality with a more developed sense of "what is"). The point that seems to be forgotten is that different degrees of perceiving truth can exist for different human beings as well. It's not really so much that one being perceives truth and the other doesn't, it's that some perceive truth in a broader more expanded way, thus actually being closer or the true nature of existence.
I will give one example of the way different level of beings can exist in humans. Lets say that a man was diagnosed with cancer earlier in his life and the doctors told him he only had 3 months to live. In the next two months, with death staring him in the face, he comes to terms with his fate and actually integrates the awareness that all things are in the process of ending and that this is simply the nature of life. However the next time he visits the doctor he finds that the cancer has mysteriously disappeared but this new perception of reality is so integrated into him that he now lives his life with the constant awareness that he and everyone he sees will die one day. This man is going to live his life, reason and feel much more in accordance with reality than another man who has not gone through this transformation because the fact of the matter is that we all are going to die one day but very few actually remember and feel this in his/her daily activity.

 

[linwood]

I think he's saying that truth is dependent upon existence, so existence is a condition of truth.

Of course, while truth exists, it's also the case that existence is true.

But the truth of existence relies on the condition of existence itself!!

I love this!!
But I can see why Phil had to rest his brain because of it.

 

[Willamena]

But the truth of existence relies on the condition of existence itself!!

I love this!!
But I can see why Phil had to rest his brain because of it.

But the condition of existence relies on its truth.

Dido.

 

[linwood]

But the condition of existence relies on its truth.

Dido.

Yes!!
That`s the fun part!!