Why would you assume that any Hindu has even read the bible? It's not Hindu scripture. Do you think that Hindus would assume that a Christian has read the Gita?
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Allah talks about caste?
- Thread starter K.Venugopal
- Start date
Why would you assume that any Hindu has even read the bible? It's not Hindu scripture. Do you think that Hindus would assume that a Christian has read the Gita?
The "Super-soul" being in the heart of all living entities, then any entities could potentially speak of behalf of the Super-soul. If one sees the Super-soul not as God but as the only begoten Son of God...
Then though the Son is unique, being in the heart of all living entities then the Son can speak through any human agent.
This lets Jesus, Krishna other Prophets... Mohammed, speak as/for the Son/Super-soul. Jesus would speak as the son of man, human like the rest of us and sometimes as the Son of God. The Son has returned many times to speak through different human agents. Religions identify with the physical form of the human agent who spoke as the Son. How could he (be physical) if he is present in the heart of all living beings.
God is untouchable/formless. God gave birth to the first, the Son/Logos/Super-soul which exists in the essence of all living entities. The Son has spoken through many Prophets however the Son is also with you, within you. Only the Son knows the Father. However through the Son you can come to know the Father.
Religions often take the Son to be the Father. The Son is of the essence of the Father as you are of the essence of the Son.
This is a Gnostic view of things.
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Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
My friend, Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is supported by many Prophets. By Vedic Scriptures. Same is confirmed in Bhagavad Gita by Krishna also many times.
It has been repeated by many different persons and in many different scriptures and many times. If you read just one scripture - Bhagavad Gita, you will realize the truth what I am saying.
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
Buddha is an accepted incarnation of Vishnu (God). Try to find 'Dashavtara' on google and read.
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
Also, that is Kalki Avtaar...it is correct. It is not Neha Kalank Avtar.
Kalki Avtaar will come at the end of Kali-yuga (our present modern age). The life of this age is 4,32,000 years. Approx 5000 years have passed so far.
śambhala-grāma-mukhyasya
brāhmaṇasya mahātmanaḥ
bhavane viṣṇuyaśasaḥ
kalkiḥ prādurbhaviṣyati
SYNONYMSbrāhmaṇasya mahātmanaḥ
bhavane viṣṇuyaśasaḥ
kalkiḥ prādurbhaviṣyati
śambhala-grāma in the village Śambhala; mukhyasya of the chief citizen; brāhmaṇasya of the brāhmaṇa; mahā-ātmanaḥ the great soul; bhavane in the home; viṣṇuyaśasaḥ of Viṣṇuyaśā; kalkiḥ Lord Kalki; prādurbhaviṣyati will appear.
TRANSLATION
Lord Kalki will appear in the home of the most eminent brāhmaṇa of Śambhala village, the great soul Viṣṇuyaśā. [S.B. 12.28]
I have, though it was long ago. I wouldn't claim to remember it to any great detail. I've been to the temple in Denver, I've eaten with the disciples and chanted with them. Very intent on getting me to join. I might have if I had already been following a Guru from India at the time.
You know of the Mayavadis who'd disagree with your view? They have a view that is similar to mine. Not to say they have the only correct view. Just that my views are not unsupported among the Hindu.
This is excellent, in my view. Wished to add the following.
The Son in the body (as we see/know) and Son in reality (as the all pervading) speak in different modes. Mostly the latter mode is not acceptable to the most western devotees.
As the All Pervading, the Son is non-different from the ungraspable God. In fact in knowledge mode nothing is different from God.
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
If you have sincerely chanted with the devotees, served them in any way and devotees have sincerely wanted you to join, then rest assured, Krishna will keep coming in front of you. wherever you go. He will keep on reminding you of Him. You will see for yourself, if you are already not seeing it. Mayavaad will not be able to explain this phenomenon.
sri-bhagavan uvaca
aham bhakta-paradhino
hy asvatantra iva dvija
sadhubhir grasta-hridayo
bhaktair bhakta-jana-priyah
aham bhakta-paradhino
hy asvatantra iva dvija
sadhubhir grasta-hridayo
bhaktair bhakta-jana-priyah
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said to the brahmana: I am completely under the control of My devotees. Indeed, I am not at all independent. Because My devotees are completely devoid of material desires, I sit only within the cores of their hearts. What to speak of My devotee, even those who are devotees of My devotee are very dear to Me.[S.B. 9.4.63]
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
I cannot help you much because I explained earlier that the standards you set are purely such that you would remain in your comfort level. I have experienced going out of my comfort level and unless that is done you can never know if you are on the right path. I hope discovering who created the Sun will go to show the preservation of the Vedic Scriptures, the status of the language, and its logical unity. How will you know if a mistake made 1000's of years back ended up with where you are today.
If you would like to try going out of your comfort level then I would humbly advise you to try to find out who created the Sun.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
No one created the Sun, science can tell you how the Sun was formed.
Scriptures allude to that the sun is a star and its a product of Prakriti (Material that forms the Visible Universe)
The Sun never came into existence out of nothing, as Vedic philosophy states "Nothing comes from nothing".
Too much of a rational mind, which is a moniker for a biased mind actually, IMO. Who created "I"?
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
Father of holy hymns, Soma flows onward the Father of the earth, Father of heaven: Father of Agni, Sūrya's generator, the Father who begat Indra and Viṣṇu.
(Rig Veda 9, 96:5)
That is one answer. More?
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
One:
Can you please provide the original quote?
Two:
Father of Holy Hymns: Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna.
Father of Earth: Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna.
Father of Heaven: Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna.
Father of Agni: Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna.
Father of Indra: Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna.
Father of Vishnu: Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna.
Where and what is the confusion?
...you still have not answered my questions
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
10 When they divided Purusha how many portions did they
make? What was his mouth? what were his arms? what are the
names of thighs and feet?
11 The Brâhman was his mouth, of both his arms was the
Râjanya made. His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sûdra was produced.
12 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye
the Sun had birth;
(Yajur-Veda, 31:12)
Fire they endow with vital breath, Wind is compact, with vital breath:
With vital breath the Gods produced the Sun whose face turn every way.
(Atharva-Veda 19, 27:7)
make? What was his mouth? what were his arms? what are the
names of thighs and feet?
11 The Brâhman was his mouth, of both his arms was the
Râjanya made. His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sûdra was produced.
12 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye
the Sun had birth;
(Yajur-Veda, 31:12)
Fire they endow with vital breath, Wind is compact, with vital breath:
With vital breath the Gods produced the Sun whose face turn every way.
(Atharva-Veda 19, 27:7)
Vrindavana Das
Active Member
This shows that the varna-ashrama system, which divides men in different varnas, according to their merits, is a representation of the body of Supreme Lord.
The Brahmanas (intelligent class) represent Supreme Lord's head. The Kshatriyas (valiant class) represent Supreme Lord's arms. The mercantile class - Vaisyas represent Supreme Lord's thighs and the labour class - Shudras represent Supreme Lord's feet.
Sun is compared here to God's eye because it is due to sun we see everything. Similarly, anything we see, God will see it first, as His eye is like the sun, because of which we see everything.
If Allah says that I am the Holy Quran, I am the sea, sun is my eye, I am the life of universe...
Will you say - how can Allah be the Holy Quran? It is just a book. Just words in ink written on paper. It is only 15 KG book. This is not Allah. Or will you say - Holy Quran represents Allah's teachings. Therefore Allah is present in Holy Quran by way of His teachings. Sea being vast and deepest body on earth, is a power of Allah and therefore represents Allah. Powerful and all seeing Sun, is like the eye of Allah, so we cannot hide any action from Allah.
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
This shows that the varna-ashrama system, which divides men in different varnas, according to their merits, is a representation of the body of Supreme Lord.
The Brahmanas (intelligent class) represent Supreme Lord's head. The Kshatriyas (valiant class) represent Supreme Lord's arms. The mercantile class - Vaisyas represent Supreme Lord's thighs and the labour class - Shudras represent Supreme Lord's feet.
Sun is compared here to God's eye because it is due to sun we see everything. Similarly, anything we see, God will see it first, as His eye is like the sun, because of which we see everything.
If Allah says that I am the Holy Quran, I am the sea, sun is my eye, I am the life of universe...
Will you say - how can Allah be the Holy Quran? It is just a book. Just words in ink written on paper. It is only 15 KG book. This is not Allah. Or will you say - Holy Quran represents Allah's teachings. Therefore Allah is present in Holy Quran by way of His teachings. Sea being vast and deepest body on earth, is a power of Allah and therefore represents Allah. Powerful and all seeing Sun, is like the eye of Allah, so we cannot hide any action from Allah.
You set your standard on literal interpretation. The Quran has a system of interpretation (verse are connected and tightly knit togethers from all over the Quran). This system safeguards it through other verses support the verses correct interpretation, also clear verses that prevent misinterpretation by showing a contradiction, and there is always a rational justification on the ideas expressed by the Quran. Moreover the language is still alive so you can tell by the use of grammar if it is to be taken literally (like the false idea people have that disbelievers were turned into Apes and Pigs). It still doesn't stop there, as promised with the Quran's protection is also of interpretation, Allah (swt) send reformers to protect the meaning of the Quran.
Either way you put it, from the context this verse is talking about creating of the moon as well. Moreover, there are so many different ideas being presented in the vast amount of Vedic Scriptures that they all seem to be written by different people. It is impossible to make them reason with so many views differing so vastly, moreover translations of some are not available and script is highly questionable.
If we go to how the Sun was put in place then your going to have many other questions to answer. But I am not here to cause offence to people. I tried to let you think and question your views, I think I have done that and you prefer comfort zone. Sorry for the trouble.
Again I apologize for wasting your time.
If what you say was correct then right after death of prophet, muslims would not be divided in 2 groups who killed each other.
I am not supporting any group or any scripture.
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Vrindavana Das
Active Member
I am still maintaining my stance of literal interpretation, to follow the actual spirit of the verse, and not a ghost.
If you check, I had asked you for the original verse when you posted the very first on the subject.
This you have not done. You are reading someone's interpretation and basing your understanding on that. Same is what you are presenting here.
Thousands of persons have interpreted the Vedas according to their level of understanding. It does not make all of them correct. You must understand the purpose of Vedas. It is to know God. Those who study Vedas for any other purpose, are mislead in their attempts to realize the goal of Vedas - God.
I can talk to two specialists of Quran/Bible/Vedas...any scripture of the world, and give you two different meanings of the same verse.
In a class, all students learn the same subject from same teacher. Teacher teaches same things to all. Yet we see, different students score different marks. Why? Because different student's understanding of the subject is different. That is why, some score high, some low, and some even fail. So, what you are saying above about Quran not open to misinterpretation, is not correct. It is not rational.
Yes. The verse says that moon has been created from the mind of Supreme Lord. Scriptures say that moon is the presiding deity of the mind.
I agree with you that many different persons have given different interpretations. Like I said above, you need to know the purpose of Vedas to understand them. You need to follow the literal to understand the spirit. Also, this you need to do under a guide or a spiritual master, who can help you whenever you are confused or have a doubt.
To become a doctor, I need to study medicine books. Studying books on my own, can I become a doctor? No. I need to study under the expert guidance of a teacher. If it is true for a mundane subject like medicine, why should we think we can understand Scriptures on our own reading? Scriptures are the science of God. It is not so cheap! We need to have a spiritual master who can guide us.
You can go into the details of Sun or moon or whatever you like.
I have not taken any offense. You have some doubts, which you have put up. I have tried to clarify them to the best of my ability. If in the process I have offended you in any way, then I too apologize.
Rational_Mind
Ahmadi Muslim
When you say "represent" then that is not literal.
Symbolic: Significant purely in terms of what is being represented or implied: "an important symbolic gesture".
Please take back literal interpretation and explain why the Moon isn't the Brahmanas as it was gendered from the mind.