Am I Wrong To Think That There Is A God, But Not Operating In This World

[Revoltingest]

Please forgive my having some fun in responding.....

Am I Wrong To Think That There Is A God, But Not Operating In This World

You're not even wrong.

 

[sojourner]

Rubbish,, According to Jewish tradition, the Oral Torah was passed down orally in an unbroken chain from generation to generation until its contents were finally committed to writing following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, when Jewish civilization was faced with an existential threat.

Common knowledge

Except we know that’s not true. We have physical texts from before 70 CE.

 

[stvdv]

the Abrahamic religions are mere human inventions. the exception was we should not eat the blood of live animals

Hypothetical: Genesis is the word of God. Then, IMHO, according to Genesis 1:29 human is meant to be vegetarian/vegan (not eating the blood of live animals meaning "not killing animals to eat"). Humans rebelled and did not want to follow God's advice. Humans having free choice, God let them have it their way; not His original advice though (hence I prefer not to read beyond Genesis ... too many human influences and desires)
Religious Forums

 

[stvdv]

Tell me why my thinking is wrong. I would appreciate it

Am I Wrong To Think That There Is A God, But Not Operating In This World
Hypothetical: Genesis is the word of God. Then, IMHO, according to Genesis 2:16 ((But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die).humans should not judge (knowledge of "good and evil" meaning judging). God sounded surprised "11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?". They judged themselves for being naked (feeling guilty, feeling "I am wrong, being naked"), before they did not entertain these judgmental thoughts.

So to answer your question: "You are not Wrong"
Religious Forums

 

[Darkforbid]

Except we know that’s not true. We have physical texts from before 70 CE.

The Aleppo Codex (c. 920 CE) and Leningrad Codex (c. 1008 CE) were once the oldest known Hebrew language manuscripts of theTanakh. In 1947 CE the finding of the Dead Sea scrolls at Qumran pushed the manuscript history of the Tanakh back a millennium from the two earliest complete codices.

But I'd love to see anything before that

 

[dybmh]

Rubbish,, According to Jewish tradition, the Oral Torah was passed down orally in an unbroken chain from generation to generation until its contents were finally committed to writing following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, when Jewish civilization was faced with an existential threat.

Common knowledge

Except we know that’s not true. We have physical texts from before 70 CE.

Well... I am interested in reviewing your evidence if you have the time and motivation.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Darkforbid]

Hypothetical: Genesis is the word of God. Then, IMHO, according to Genesis 1:29 human is meant to be vegetarian/vegan (not eating the blood of live animals meaning "not killing animals to eat"). Humans rebelled and did not want to follow God's advice. Humans having free choice, God let them have it their way; not His original advice though (hence I prefer not to read beyond Genesis ... too many human influences and desires)
Religious Forums

29And God said, "Behold, I have given you every seed bearing herb, which is upon the surface of the entire earth, and every tree that has seed bearing fruit; it will be yours for food.

The Torah is always the best to quote

 

[sojourner]

The Aleppo Codex (c. 920 CE) and Leningrad Codex (c. 1008 CE) were once the oldest known Hebrew language manuscripts of theTanakh. In 1947 CE the finding of the Dead Sea scrolls at Qumran pushed the manuscript history of the Tanakh back a millennium from the two earliest complete codices.

But I'd love to see anything before that

Parts of the LXX date to the 2nd century BCE.

 

[dybmh]

Parts of the LXX date to the 2nd century BCE.

This doesn't challenge the chain of transmission of the Oral Torah, correct?

 

[stvdv]

The Torah is always the best to quote

Thank you for the link to this website.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Am I Wrong To Think That There Is A God, But Not Operating In This World": Why should I say that you are wrong? You have your views and others have their's. I do not see any need of God, and it raises the problem of where this God has arisen from? And why should God not operate in the world after creating all the chaos?

 

[Lionel Refson]

That would make you a theist. Next stop: Agnostic

been all possibilities already ............now back to theist for the final time!

 

[Lionel Refson]

"Am I Wrong To Think That There Is A God, But Not Operating In This World": Why should I say that you are wrong? You have your views and others have their's. I do not see any need of God, and it raises the problem of where this God has arisen from? And why should God not operate in the world after creating all the chaos?

Imo God does not operate on this world because we have freewill.
It is important for this to be accepted, if ever that was possible in my view because it will stop all the reward/punishment duality that so many abrahamics operate under, a system which only creates misery, both directly and indirectly. It is not a question to of why should God not operate. imo he does not. (don't tell me my agenda leaked out of me again )

You do not see any need of God because you probably were never indoctrinated by the abrahamic faiths and even if you were you have risen above many dualities, given what i know of your beliefs.
It is time for the abrahamic religions also to rise above this duality as I know you know ... I know .....imo

 

[Lionel Refson]

Hypothetical: Genesis is the word of God. Then, IMHO, according to Genesis 1:29 human is meant to be vegetarian/vegan (not eating the blood of live animals meaning "not killing animals to eat"). Humans rebelled and did not want to follow God's advice. Humans having free choice, God let them have it their way; not His original advice though (hence I prefer not to read beyond Genesis ... too many human influences and desires)
Religious Forums

Absolutely and that is the key ..........too many human influences and desires and dualities

 

[blü 2]

I have measured every verse in the texts against this idea of God as perfection, all knowing and seeing and every thing after Gen 9:19 for me is divisive human made babble. I am unable to find this perfect God after Gen 9:19

First, 'perfect' is a personal judgment, not an objective quality of things.

Second, in the Tanakh we see the concept of Yahweh grow from being one of the many tribal gods of the Canaanite pantheon to the monogod of Isaiah; there isn't one god in the bible, there are various versions. (And in the NT we get a completely revised version of God again, which by the fourth century CE has become the Trinity.)

Third, in the Tanakh God orders invasive war, massacres of populations, mass rapes, sets out the rules of slavery, treats women as property, likes human sacrifices, is the archetype of religious intolerance and so on, moral qualities which in my view are repulsive.

So I wouldn't look in the bible for a perfect god. I'd look at self and society and work out a personal morality.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Absolutely and that is the key ..........too many human influences and desires and dualities

Ah, no. YHWH preferred Abel's offering over Cain's.

1 And Adam lay wyth Heua ys wyfe which conceaved and bare Kayin and sayd: I haue goten a ma of the LORde.
2 And she proceded forth and bare hys brother Hevel: And Hevel became a sheperde And Kayin became a ploweman.
3 And it fortuned in processe of tyme that Kayin brought of the frute of the erth: an offerynge vnto the LORde.
4 And Hevel he brought also of the fyrstlynges of hys shepe and of the fatt of them. And the LORde loked vnto Hevel and to his offeynge:
5 but vnto Kayin and vnto his offrynge looked he not. And Kayin was wroth exceadingly and loured.
Genesis 4:2-5 (Mix, Orthodox Jewish and Tyndale)

 

[Lionel Refson]

Ah, no. YHWH preferred Abel's offering over Cain's.

"2 Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor." Genesis 4 (NIV)

God knows all things. Abel was sacrificed (as God knew Abel would be killed ) to show humanity the forgiveness of God. Abel loved God so much that this sacrifice would, to him not have been a sacrifice but a blessing. God knew that Cain would bring a meagre harvest, become jealous and kill Abel Cain was spared.......an example to us all and protected by a mark on his forehead. IMO

I know you will say how cruel that God set up Abel, but perhaps Abel still sits there happy to be blessed by God's side. The point is you also believe that life is pain and suffering until we are re-united with God/Brahamin. The pleasures of the flesh and therefore of this world are but an illusion ! So what did Abel lose? He would have willingly sacrificed himself for God and the lesson is there for us all to take. Not for us to spare the murderer necessarily but for God to......IMO

 

[stvdv]

Ah, no. YHWH preferred Abel's offering over Cain's.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Genesis 4 (KJV)

I had never been able to understand why God, asking us not to judge, accepted Abel's offering and rejected Cain's offering
Even more so:
Considering in Genesis 1:29 human is meant to be vegetarian/vegan, this accepting Cain's animal offering is kind of unexpected
After reading this thread and your reply, finally it does make sense why this way

 

[Lionel Refson]

First, 'perfect' is a personal judgment, not an objective quality of things.

Second, in the Tanakh we see the concept of Yahweh grow from being one of the many tribal gods of the Canaanite pantheon to the monogod of Isaiah; there isn't one god in the bible, there are various versions. (And in the NT we get a completely revised version of God again, which by the fourth century CE has become the Trinity.)

Third, in the Tanakh God orders invasive war, massacres of populations, mass rapes, sets out the rules of slavery, treats women as property, likes human sacrifices, is the archetype of religious intolerance and so on, moral qualities which in my view are repulsive.

So I wouldn't look in the bible for a perfect god. I'd look at self and society and work out a personal morality.

Then i would go back to the Bible and re-read. Which is what I did!

 

[Lionel Refson]

I had never been able to understand why God, asking us not to judge, accepted Abel's offering and rejected Cain's offering
Even more so:
Considering in Genesis 1:29 human is meant to be vegetarian/vegan, this accepting Cain's animal offering is kind of unexpected
After reading this thread and your reply, finally it does make sense why this way

IMO Yes it does make sense to me as well and it is another interpretation, one I have missed. I have answered Aupmanyav a different way.......BUT I am a vegetarian!!
You can spend years studying genesis and miss things. I actually had never been looking for vegetarianism in it, only God...........then there is no mention of milk either ..........so vegan it is !!