Am I Wrong To Think That There Is A God, But Not Operating In This World

[Zita]

The implications of this and other verses of genesis 9, (for me the essential part of The Bible) are

Genesis 9:6 reads to me as Whoever sheds the blood of man through man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

Remember this is the voice of God, not a prophet, not a messiah, this is God. In the beginning of all the Abrahamic holy books God makes a statement . For me it states that even the worst possible crime, that of murder is to be dealt with by human hands.
God said this to Noah and his sons, ie the whole of humanity, which for me is also very symbolic
I also believe that God does not err, nor contradict God, because God is Perfect, all-knowing and all seeing, far into our future

The implications of this and other verses of genesis 9, (for me the essential part of The Bible) are many imo

1/ No one ever died at the hands of God, That includes Egyptians, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah and everyone else
2/ There is no eternal punishment or Hell for those that committ the worst of crimes, though there is an accounting
3/ God therefore would never have extolled anyone to kill in God's name especially when one considers that God blessed us all to be fruitful and multiply through Noah and his sons, the whole of humanity and also promised never again to destroy us "for everlasting generations" (and do not make the error of saying that was by water!)
4/ God does not operate on this Earth. God has left us to it
5/ All Abrahamic religions are therefore misleading ie we are all alone on this world and will return to God when we die
6/ Because God made no religious decrees in Genesis 9 when God spoke to all humanity for all time through all of our ancestors, the Abrahamic religions are mere human inventions. the exception was we should not eat the blood of live animals

But the key thing for me is the firm belief that God spoke once only because as God would be aware of our future and the decisions we would make God would have said other things to Noah such as "Here are my 10 Commandments", teach them to your grandchildren and so on.
I have measured every verse in the texts against this idea of God as perfection, all knowing and seeing and every thing after Gen 9:19 for me is divisive human made babble. I am unable to find this perfect God after Gen 9:19


I also believe we were given complete freewill by God via the serpent and if you add this lot all together, this is how I arrive at my belief. Tell me why my thinking is wrong. I would appreciate it . No IPUs please

no, you are not thinking wrong, I was doing some research on Christianity and The church,and I found out that Early Christians doctrine that God is in heaven and not on earth and will not enact on Earth, that the devil has reign throughout the world and he is the prince of the air.that divine assistant is no more, if you get powers of assistance it is of the devil.King James called the devil God's hangman,although that doctrine is no more, I still see that right to now.Because as you know the World is crazy,and full of evil doings!! People are lost,hurting,suffering and misguided and some more stuff.How does God not help since he is all powerful.I feel once he gave us free will he just left it up to us alone. However,I believe that people who do evil doings and etc. Don't feel it's going against God because God is said to say we were born in sin and we are all sinners,and come short of glory of God,and The church is so judgemental and harsh if you don't follow their way,saying when you die you'll not make it into heaven,you'll go to hell. and it seems like everything is against God and it's sin,so.......
I believe the ones that are on a spiritual path to enlightenment and seek God for themselves,and hear his guidance and live the way that hurts no one,but help and assist others ,those who seek the spiritual realm and use the gifts and powers that God has blessed us with to enhance our lives and are happy,joyous,at peace,and strive to help others create a blessed life also are doing has God would have us to do.He wants the best life for us while here on earth.

I believe in a mighty God that is all love and giving us guidance each time we ask, for it. However' I don't believe in the God the bible speaks of!! I refuse to believe that God is to be feared and he can be angered to punish and more and he's jealous and orders murder,sends plaques on cities,sent a famine of 7 years on earth,killed babies and will cast us in the fiery pit to burn. That he puts us through trials and tribulations,and watch us suffer and hurt just so he can prove to us that he is God and can bring us out of our misery. I don't believe he would take out a whole nation by flooding everyone,but saved Noah and his family,would that be morally correct?Of course there is much more they say God said and ordered and judged humans.I don't believe that he says that homosexuals are an abomination or that witches such as my self along with witchcraft is also an abomination of him and we shall be killed. That he killed innocent babies and a mass murder of innocent children. Really? I just don't see A creator resulting to such horror. I could go on and on cause that book called the bible is full of stories like that.

Why is divination such a horrible thing, Why would using tools,techniques and a practice that can enhance your spiritual path and connect with the divine and angels and etc. be a bad thing?When God wants us to be spiritual in every way.God made the stars,planets and the moon, so why would studying them be wrong or evil, it.really makes no sense,that's why I don't believe a word of the bible, my opinion is that it was written by man to control the people. Which it has surely done for hundreds of years and still going strong, so I give them credit for having such a vivid imagination and writing skills. and knowing how to brain wash through word,Actually Old Christianity said that God demands unquestioning obedience and to fear God because he is a jealous and angry God, that it was essential to say to sustain the people.That one should learn of God only from the church not by personal inquiry and accept and submit to whatever the church teaches,so that the people wouldn't exceed the church in wisdom .So if the Church told those things to control the people,surely the same thing could be done by man or men in the writing of "The Bible"That is just my own opinion on it.
Don't be surprised if you get a lot of people saying you are wrong in what you believe, I get them all the time, but it doesn't bother me in the least. Most Christians and those who have read the bible think they are so smart and they know it all, that we are the not so bright ones because we question what doesn't seem right or make sense. But they are the ones who have so much faith and believe and live by those words in a book that they can't even prove it's accurate and true.Now how smart is that?

 

[Lionel Refson]

When I say blasphemy then I mean "to pretend that you know what God will/shall/should/could/would do etc.". To sit on God's chair so to speak. You write all the time as if you know exactly everything what God needs/can/shoud/would/could do. I just do not know anything about God at all.

For me most is hearsay. Is it true that you know all this for a fact or "safe to assume" etc?

I know it is a fact for me, that is good enough for me. But why I think this is because God never said this to Noah and his sons. I think the scene that happened after the Flood is of extreme importance to humanity. God used the phrase ..for everlasting generations 2/3 times. If God was touchy enough to worry about blasphemy it would have been mentioned at that time. Several important things were mentioned ...many things that God purported to have said later in the Bible were NOT said , blasphemy was not mentioned . And of course we have complete freewill to do as we would like

This is what I have gleaned from Genesis , leaving blasphemy aside

How many times has God said to us "Be fruitful...

Genesis 1:22
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 8:17
Bring forth with thee every living thing that [is] with thee, of all flesh, [both] of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

Genesis 9:1
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Genesis 9:7
And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

1/We should be fruitful to self and others. We should encourage fruitfulness in self and others. Being fruitful to self means adopting the mental and physical condition of looking after oneself, guarding and evaluating one's thoughts and outwardly being amenable and personable.. being fruitful to others means helping and encouraging others, doing all what one can to make the lot of others more bearable, helping them to thrive; family, friends, communities.

2/ We should not believe in divine punishment in this life, i.e. removal of fear

3/ We should treat all others as equals as God blessed all people equally.

4/ we should discard religious custom and tradition and encourage others to do the same.

5/ We have freewill

6/ We should multiply

7/ We should avoid eating live animals

8/ we should not have fear nor guilt, The ultimate conclusion to this thesis is one that will cause consternation in religious circles. Religion was a human creation that is both unnecessary, inasmuch as humanity does not need it and misleading inasmuch as neither Judaism Christianity nor Islam gives us the true nature of our relationship with God. indeed, if anything they take us far away from our Creator. We kill in the name of God, we fight wars in the name of God, we bow down, pray and worship God in different ways and yet God never instructed us to do any of these things. The only true path for each and every one of us to return to God is to abandon religion forever and a good start would be to remove everything in your Bible from genesis 9:19 onwards!

 

[Road Less Traveled]

Genesis 9:6 reads to me as Whoever sheds the blood of man through man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

Remember this is the voice of God, not a prophet, not a messiah, this is God. In the beginning of all the Abrahamic holy books God makes a statement . For me it states that even the worst possible crime, that of murder is to be dealt with by human hands.
God said this to Noah and his sons, ie the whole of humanity, which for me is also very symbolic
I also believe that God does not err, nor contradict God, because God is Perfect, all-knowing and all seeing, far into our future

The implications of this and other verses of genesis 9, (for me the essential part of The Bible) are many imo

1/ No one

Genesis 9:6 reads to me as Whoever sheds the blood of man through man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

Remember this is the voice of God, not a prophet, not a messiah, this is God. In the beginning of all the Abrahamic holy books God makes a statement . For me it states that even the worst possible crime, that of murder is to be dealt with by human hands.
God said this to Noah and his sons, ie the whole of humanity, which for me is also very symbolic
I also believe that God does not err, nor contradict God, because God is Perfect, all-knowing and all seeing, far into our future

The implications of this and other verses of genesis 9, (for me the essential part of The Bible) are many imo

1/ No one ever died at the hands of God, That includes Egyptians, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah and everyone else
2/ There is no eternal punishment or Hell for those that committ the worst of crimes, though there is an accounting
3/ God therefore would never have extolled anyone to kill in God's name especially when one considers that God blessed us all to be fruitful and multiply through Noah and his sons, the whole of humanity and also promised never again to destroy us "for everlasting generations" (and do not make the error of saying that was by water!)
4/ God does not operate on this Earth. God has left us to it
5/ All Abrahamic religions are therefore misleading ie we are all alone on this world and will return to God when we die
6/ Because God made no religious decrees in Genesis 9 when God spoke to all humanity for all time through all of our ancestors, the Abrahamic religions are mere human inventions. the exception was we should not eat the blood of live animals

But the key thing for me is the firm belief that God spoke once only because as God would be aware of our future and the decisions we would make God would have said other things to Noah such as "Here are my 10 Commandments", teach them to your grandchildren and so on.
I have measured every verse in the texts against this idea of God as perfection, all knowing and seeing and every thing after Gen 9:19 for me is divisive human made babble. I am unable to find this perfect God after Gen 9:19


I also believe we were given complete freewill by God via the serpent and if you add this lot all together, this is how I arrive at my belief. Tell me why my thinking is wrong. I would appreciate it . No IPUs please

My perceived understanding of ‘free-will’ is that it’s a progression with the end aim as to becoming free. Going from an ignorant and powerless marionette with whackadoodle and disturbing programming to dying to all of that whackadoodle programming with re-written sensible, aware, and wholesome programming.

What if the end aim would be becoming free from this creative entity? Such as if I were it’s possession until I cut the umbilical cord and broke free from it? I would not have free will if I were doing the will of something else. That’s not to say that my will may be natural and just is and aligns perfectly with something else(s.) The rebellion against my author, and no longer under it’s fear, control, or it’s many clever and subtle traps.

And what if good were mistaken for evil and vice versa? What if the serpent were the good entity and the creative entity were the evil entity?

Personally, from what I observe around me, and my current state of outgrowth... I’d love nothing more than to be free from this creation.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

My perceived understanding of ‘free-will’ is that it’s a progression with the end aim as to becoming free. Going from an ignorant and powerless marionette with whackadoodle and disturbing programming to dying to all of that whackadoodle programming with re-written sensible, aware, and wholesome programming.

What if the end aim would be becoming free from this creative entity? Such as if I were it’s possession until I cut the umbilical cord and broke free from it? I would not have free will if I were doing the will of something else. That’s not to say that my will may be natural and just is and aligns perfectly with something else(s.) The rebellion against my author, and no longer until it’s fear or it’s many clever and subtle traps.

And what if good were mistaken for evil and vice versa? What if the serpent were the good entity and the creative entity were the evil entity?

Personally, from what I observe around me, and my current state of outgrowth... I’d love nothing more than to be free from this creation.

I mean, if I created something and wanted to enslave my creation... I’d do it exactly the same way. Ignorance. Fear. Fear of reputation loss, fear of fitting it. Fear of their life. Fear of their fate. I’d have people worshipping me, praising me, thinking I’m good, singing me songs, give false hope, going after all of desires and urges that I scripted them with. I’d have books written that they’ll idolize. Hell... I’d even give them rewards for being good little slaves to keep them assimilated. Id even be good myself briefly just to turn evil and trick them at a later time. I’d have them so fleeced, confused, ignorant as to what is what they couldn’t tell left from right, up from down. They’d even all think they had freewill and were making choices but are really marionettes with me pulling their strings and my device and traps pulling their strings, and their biological script pulling their strings. Their gullible and naive script that I gave them will pull their strings. Many would think they are doing the will and work of good and even mean well... but mistaken. I’d have most of them all blaming humanity with human flagellation while I get a free pass because how dare anyone point the finger at the true source for all problems: me. And most wouldn’t because they fear me. But I have a backup plan too just in case some stop blaming humans: they will blame the devil or Satan which is really me but they wouldn’t know that. I’d have them very ignorant and enslaved while they even thank me for it! And if there was some punk named JC, or other profound, sensible beings.. how dare come into my world and/or inside of others own individual worlds and try to transmute my slaves and souls and give them a way out and set them free. How dare enter their worlds and make my blind(ignorant) see(become aware.) But I have a plan for that too... the teachings will be so highly distorted about that punk JC and others it won’t matter.

 

[stvdv]

If God was touchy enough to worry about blasphemy it would have been mentioned at that time

You misunderstood again my point. I never said nor implied that God was touchy. That is the whole point I made "I do not know what God does why"
Some great people in the past made some good remarks IMO. They became humble, even though they were considered quite wise. I love that.
Aristotle — 'The more you know, the more you know you don't know
Albert Einstein — 'The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.'

5/ We have freewill

I agree to disagree on this one.

8/ we should not have fear nor guilt,

I learned always it is best to speak for yourself, not for others. They can figure it out themselves

The only true path for each and every one of us to return to God is to abandon religion forever

Again ... why do say you know what is "true path for all" ... Are you omniscient? Belief is personal. You have yours, I have mine. Don't impose please.

Other points felt good

 

[Zita]

I know it is a fact for me, that is good enough for me. But why I think this is because God never said this to Noah and his sons. I think the scene that happened after the Flood is of extreme importance to humanity. God used the phrase ..for everlasting generations 2/3 times. If God was touchy enough to worry about blasphemy it would have been mentioned at that time. Several important things were mentioned ...many things that God purported to have said later in the Bible were NOT said , blasphemy was not mentioned . And of course we have complete freewill to do as we would like

This is what I have gleaned from Genesis , leaving blasphemy aside

How many times has God said to us "Be fruitful...

Genesis 1:22
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 8:17
Bring forth with thee every living thing that [is] with thee, of all flesh, [both] of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

Genesis 9:1
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Genesis 9:7
And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

1/We should be fruitful to self and others. We should encourage fruitfulness in self and others. Being fruitful to self means adopting the mental and physical condition of looking after oneself, guarding and evaluating one's thoughts and outwardly being amenable and personable.. being fruitful to others means helping and encouraging others, doing all what one can to make the lot of others more bearable, helping them to thrive; family, friends, communities.

2/ We should not believe in divine punishment in this life, i.e. removal of fear

3/ We should treat all others as equals as God blessed all people equally.

4/ we should discard religious custom and tradition and encourage others to do the same.

5/ We have freewill

6/ We should multiply

7/ We should avoid eating live animals

8/ we should not have fear nor guilt, The ultimate conclusion to this thesis is one that will cause consternation in religious circles. Religion was a human creation that is both unnecessary, inasmuch as humanity does not need it and misleading inasmuch as neither Judaism Christianity nor Islam gives us the true nature of our relationship with God. indeed, if anything they take us far away from our Creator. We kill in the name of God, we fight wars in the name of God, we bow down, pray and worship God in different ways and yet God never instructed us to do any of these things. The only true path for each and every one of us to return to God is to abandon religion forever and a good start would be to remove everything in your Bible from genesis 9:19 onwards![/QUOTE
Now that's what I'm talking about, someone who is intelligent enough to see what's really going on and has been for hundreds of years. A man after my own heart.

 

[Road Less Traveled]

It is remotely possible some entity does exist, but I doubt humans are in communication with it. I am of the opinion all the gods, in which humans believe, are created by them.

Personally observe a lot of that too.

If one is needy for praise or worship themselves, so will their god be.

If one finds satisfaction and will send others into the hell(suffering), so will their god.

If one is trying to guilt trip another into control, so will their god.

If one is petty, so is their god.

If one is angry, so is their god.

If one is unjust, so is their god.

If one feels superior over others, so does their god.

If one is attempting to impose fear over others in order to manipulate them into doing something, so does their god.

If one does not like someone because they aren’t like them, so does their god.

If one will only love others if they love them back, so does their god.

If one is needy for love, so will their god be.

If one is insecure or has low self-esteem, so will their god.

 

[Lionel Refson]

Again ... why do say you know what is "true path for all" ... Are you omniscient? Belief is personal. You have yours, I have mine. Don't impose please.

Other points felt good

You are quite right. I

 

[JJ50]

Personally observe a lot of that too.

If one is needy for praise or worship themselves, so will their god be.

If one finds satisfaction and will send others into the hell(suffering), so will their god.

If one is trying to guilt trip another into control, so will their god.

If one is petty, so is their god.

If one is angry, so is their god.

If one is unjust, so is their god.

If one feels superior over others, so does their god.

If one is attempting to impose fear over others in order to manipulate them into doing something, so does their god.

If one does not like someone because they aren’t like them, so does their god.

If one will only love others if they love them back, so does their god.

If one is needy for love, so will their god be.

If one is insecure or has low self-esteem, so will their god.

I agree.

 

[Audie]

I believe a person without beiefs is like a grain of sand blown this way and that with no stability and no solid truth.

You are talking about a dead person, everyone had
beliefs.
If instead of talking impossibilities and metaphors, you
refer to a person who does not believe in the god
you choose to think is real, or in any other god-

And if you mean such a person is unable to
be a stable, moral and ethical person, that is
both ignorant, and, rather insulting-to yourself
as well as others.

But maybe it is so that you have a to have a
"god" doing carrot and stick to get you off the
road to bank robbery and child abuse. Who knows.

Anyway, you said it is (just) what you believe,
and, you really dont know any better, so I wont blame you.

Unless you keep it up.

 

[80s fashion girl]

I believe believing what one wants can do the person a great deal of harm.

I believe what is sometimes considered force is simply persuasion. A loving person will try to get a person to believe the truth so that harm will not befall them.

jj50 said it better in post quoted below.

 

[80s fashion girl]

It depends what their so called 'truth' is!

Ditto!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Genesis 9:6 reads to me as Whoever sheds the blood of man through man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man.

Remember this is the voice of God, not a prophet, not a messiah, this is God. In the beginning of all the Abrahamic holy books God makes a statement . For me it states that even the worst possible crime, that of murder is to be dealt with by human hands.
God said this to Noah and his sons, ie the whole of humanity, which for me is also very symbolic
I also believe that God does not err, nor contradict God, because God is Perfect, all-knowing and all seeing, far into our future

The implications of this and other verses of genesis 9, (for me the essential part of The Bible) are many imo

1/ No one ever died at the hands of God, That includes Egyptians, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah and everyone else
2/ There is no eternal punishment or Hell for those that committ the worst of crimes, though there is an accounting
3/ God therefore would never have extolled anyone to kill in God's name especially when one considers that God blessed us all to be fruitful and multiply through Noah and his sons, the whole of humanity and also promised never again to destroy us "for everlasting generations" (and do not make the error of saying that was by water!)
4/ God does not operate on this Earth. God has left us to it
5/ All Abrahamic religions are therefore misleading ie we are all alone on this world and will return to God when we die
6/ Because God made no religious decrees in Genesis 9 when God spoke to all humanity for all time through all of our ancestors, the Abrahamic religions are mere human inventions. the exception was we should not eat the blood of live animals

But the key thing for me is the firm belief that God spoke once only because as God would be aware of our future and the decisions we would make God would have said other things to Noah such as "Here are my 10 Commandments", teach them to your grandchildren and so on.
I have measured every verse in the texts against this idea of God as perfection, all knowing and seeing and every thing after Gen 9:19 for me is divisive human made babble. I am unable to find this perfect God after Gen 9:19


I also believe we were given complete freewill by God via the serpent and if you add this lot all together, this is how I arrive at my belief. Tell me why my thinking is wrong. I would appreciate it . No IPUs please

Some interesting conclusions, there! Read and think deeply on Genesis 3 1-6, and see what you can glean from it....can you see any issues, i.e., concerns, that the serpent raised?
Well, one concern I'll give you: he said God is a liar. But what else?

 

[Lionel Refson]

Some interesting conclusions, there! Read and think deeply on Genesis 3 1-6, and see what you can glean from it....can you see any issues, i.e., concerns, that the serpent raised?
Well, one concern I'll give you: he said God is a liar. But what else?

The serpent, sent by God, to offer the choice of freewill had to be persuasive after all.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The serpent, sent by God, to offer the choice of freewill had to be persuasive after all.

Revelation 12 9 reveals the Devil was the one using the serpent, by calling the Devil "the Original Serpent."

 

[Lionel Refson]

Revelation 12 9 reveals the Devil was the one using the serpent, by calling the Devil "the Original Serpent."

Revelations is nonsense imo. As God gave us freewill there is no Devil. For God to give us freewill on this earth then plague us with a devil creation makes no sense at all